Is moderation even possible?
Semi-Professional Philosopher
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Join Date: May 2013
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Is moderation even possible?
I realize this is a recovery forum, and the vast majority of us are here because we are addicts, specifically alcoholics. But has anyone ever known anyone that was an alcoholic, and was able to "change their ways" and be able to moderate their drinking?
It seems the "success" stories are far and few between.
It seems the "success" stories are far and few between.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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What is the purpose of asking? Are you thinking of going to moderate use?
I know people who have quit and gone back and *seem* to be okay. Who knows if they really are okay, though? Since alcoholism is highly individual and complicated and full of secrecy and deceit when using, I don't think there is a way to really answer that. I've also known people who quit/go back and died pretty quickly.
I mean, I knew I had alcoholic behaviors in my early twenties. I quit drinking in my early thirties. In my fifties I started to drink again socially, and I moderated for several years - one or two a day, couple days a week - then I didn't any more. So, did I moderate? Or what would you call that? If you would have asked the question in the first couple years I came back to drinking, I would have said, "Yes."
Now I wouldn't make such a foolish claim. It is insidious and progressive.
Context.
I know people who have quit and gone back and *seem* to be okay. Who knows if they really are okay, though? Since alcoholism is highly individual and complicated and full of secrecy and deceit when using, I don't think there is a way to really answer that. I've also known people who quit/go back and died pretty quickly.
I mean, I knew I had alcoholic behaviors in my early twenties. I quit drinking in my early thirties. In my fifties I started to drink again socially, and I moderated for several years - one or two a day, couple days a week - then I didn't any more. So, did I moderate? Or what would you call that? If you would have asked the question in the first couple years I came back to drinking, I would have said, "Yes."
Now I wouldn't make such a foolish claim. It is insidious and progressive.
Context.
Semi-Professional Philosopher
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This conversation came up at work, in the context of cigarette smokers. An older gentleman I work with used to be a 2 pack/day smoker. He quit cigarettes, but claims he can know enjoy a fine cigar on the weekends. I'm most likely making an apples to oranges comparison here.
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I think there are some people who can do it. I have met a few people in my life who were crazy good at disciplining themselves. I can imagine them moderating and staying moderated.
I have not yet met someone who has, however. And they likely wouldn't be posting to to SR.
I have not yet met someone who has, however. And they likely wouldn't be posting to to SR.
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Originally Posted by steve-in-kville 
I'm most likely making an apples to oranges comparison here.
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An alcoholic who is moderating is likely fighting it tooth and nail, and while they may be successful for a period of time, inevitably they will end up drinking alcoholically again. That is just my opinion.
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Here's the thing, I have seen and heard of a few who have and can moderate or so it appears!.
...but when you look closer it really is more of a case where someone that drinks occasionally rolled over into heavy drinking at a time or during circumstances in their lives..realising what they are doing they check themselves & rein it back in or stop, breaking the cycle or habit.
They have not crossed over into alcoholism or are not alcoholics.....
Now for me and the very nature of my alcoholism, I hear these occasional stories, I light up and think, hmmm, maybe I can do that!, ....and I have tried and before long splat back into active alcoholism, and my life becomes consumed and revolves around a drink.
...but when you look closer it really is more of a case where someone that drinks occasionally rolled over into heavy drinking at a time or during circumstances in their lives..realising what they are doing they check themselves & rein it back in or stop, breaking the cycle or habit.
They have not crossed over into alcoholism or are not alcoholics.....
Now for me and the very nature of my alcoholism, I hear these occasional stories, I light up and think, hmmm, maybe I can do that!, ....and I have tried and before long splat back into active alcoholism, and my life becomes consumed and revolves around a drink.
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IMO If you can moderate you aren't an alcoholic but if you are an alcoholic you can't moderate I drink for one reason only and that is to get drunk. A glass of wine in my book is a waste of time and money. The BB says it the best
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals-usually brief-were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones.
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals-usually brief-were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones.
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No, never met anyone who had a significant drinking problem who could "re-learn" how to drink in moderation. Not a single person.
And, I've never met anyone who had been sober for a long time who even wanted to drink again, moderately or otherwise, except perhaps as a random passing thought.
But in both cases, I'm sure there are a few out there. Must be extremely rare indeed.
And, I've never met anyone who had been sober for a long time who even wanted to drink again, moderately or otherwise, except perhaps as a random passing thought.
But in both cases, I'm sure there are a few out there. Must be extremely rare indeed.
Semi-Professional Philosopher
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
Equating the ability to moderate to "success" is borderline against site policy as well so please watch your subject matter carefully.
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Originally Posted by steve-in-kville
This conversation came up at work, in the context of cigarette smokers. An older gentleman I work with used to be a 2 pack/day smoker. He quit cigarettes, but claims he can know enjoy a fine cigar on the weekends. I'm most likely making an apples to oranges comparison here.
Smoking? That can be different. I quit two packs a day of unfiltered Chesterfield Kings (cigarettes) over 27 years ago and haven't touched a cigarette since. I have a cigar on the golf course, if I'm offered a free one, maybe once a summer, maybe every other summer, I don't remember. In fact, I had a nice cigar, a Joya de Nicaragua just last week though. No problem.
Semi-Professional Philosopher
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Originally Posted by MarkTwain
Smoking? That can be different.
(I was never a tobacco user, BTW)
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