Why should judges be able to ORDER people to invade our rooms?
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by ljc267 
Just curious.
Does AA receive state and/or federal funds? Just curious as to how the court is able to assign people to the program.
Does AA receive state and/or federal funds? Just curious as to how the court is able to assign people to the program.
AA does not accept funds from any outside source because it does not want to be indebted or influenced. Or open to allegations of similar...as above.
Courts send people because they think AA works. AA allows these people to attend. Individual meetings might agree to sign paperwork which the courts produce, so that someone in the Criminal Justice System can 'prove' they have actually attended a meeting.
AA has no official affiliation with any court system and will not seek to develop one.
There is no charge or fee for AA membership. A small collection is taken at the end of the meeting. You can skip this and attend for nothing if you wish.
P
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Location: Manchester, UK
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^ Just to clarify another misunderstood point...AA NEVER mandates attendance. The courts choose to do this and AA chooses not to prevent this or have an official opinion on wether it's a good or bad thing.
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P
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Originally Posted by paulokes
AA has no official affiliation with any court system and will not seek to develop one.
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Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK
I don't know about official, but unofficial affiliations are common in the US. There is a perceived benefit in some areas to lobby the courts to send people to your meetings, AA does it and so do other organizations as a means of expanding the meeting lists with more attendees.
I am involved in Intergroup and Region level service for AA in the UK...whatever loose level of organisation AA has this is where it happens.
I can categorically state lobbying dies not happen. Some working committees engage with Probation Services and prisons just to allow willing people to be introduced to AA...and to facilitate things like the chit system discussed above.
I am sure it's exactly the same in the US.
So again. ..can you provide evidence for what you said above or is it based on conjecture?
P.S There is absolutely no benefit to AA in expanding the meetings list. I think you are mistaking AA for a profit driven company. ..e.G. a private rehab facility.
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Location: Manchester, UK
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
Folks....please keep discussion in our forums within our guidelines. That means keeping personal arguments or outside agendas out of the public forums.
LAST reminder.
LAST reminder.
There was no personal attack in my post...just a genuine request that information stated about AA is kept factual rather than based on rumour.
This is something I happen to have a deal of experience with so I was curious wether the previous poster was speaking from knowledge or opinion.
Let me know publicly or privately if there is something amiss with that
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
I am simply reminding everyone that our forums are here to focus on helping each other, not to question motives or debate why one recovery method is better or worse than the next. Certainly discussion of different methods and how we use them is fine, we wouldn't have subforums dedicated to each if it wasn't.
But too often discussions turn into arguments. And we don't want that.
But too often discussions turn into arguments. And we don't want that.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
AA does publish official guidelines for cooperating with the courts in the USA. This practice is nothing new, and dates to the 1940's.
A.A. Guidelines on Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs
There are secular recovery organizations that are also doing this now, though. See for, example, this from SMART Recovery:
SMART Recovery and the Courts
JeffreyAK is right about it not being just AA anymore.
A.A. Guidelines on Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs
There are secular recovery organizations that are also doing this now, though. See for, example, this from SMART Recovery:
SMART Recovery and the Courts
JeffreyAK is right about it not being just AA anymore.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 28,658
Meetings are free. All who go- I treat with respect (I am NOT saying you do not). Who knows? Even though not wanting to go- perhaps one or 2 people made to go will change. What else can authorities do? For the public good- such people need help. There will always be people who avoid, lie and cheat. Think about YOU. Why is it these people annoy you so? How can you use these experiences to grow and learn. I do. It works sometimes.
Support to you. Remember you take what you want from meetings and leave the rest behind.
The meetings are 'ours?' Jeez- alcohol abuse is exclusive?
Support to you. Remember you take what you want from meetings and leave the rest behind.
The meetings are 'ours?' Jeez- alcohol abuse is exclusive?
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Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
For lots of reasons I'm going to leave the argument about AA and courts to those who feel more strongly. All I wI'll say is there is a difference between lobbying and co-operating in my book.
I'm glad that AA, SMART and other organisations co-operate with the penal system. Alcohol and drug addiction is a massive contributory factor in criminal behaviour. These folks are often the ones most in need of help.
The information on what does and doesn't happen is publicly available, I urge people to read it and investigate rather than reading headlines
Have a great evening all
P
I'm glad that AA, SMART and other organisations co-operate with the penal system. Alcohol and drug addiction is a massive contributory factor in criminal behaviour. These folks are often the ones most in need of help.
The information on what does and doesn't happen is publicly available, I urge people to read it and investigate rather than reading headlines
Have a great evening all
P
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Posts: 6,613
Of course that cooperation in the past consisted mainly of carrying the AA message into the prisons, and the general membership could choose whether or not to be involved in that work. Now it is almost like the prisons are coming into AA, which is a different thing.
As a fellowship, we guarantee anonymity for all who join and wish to remain anonymous. As a member of the fellowship, I am responsble for that. This is a personal choice each member has as of right.
It is not good enough to say that personally it doesn't bother me, so it shouldn't bother you, and therefore I don't care. As a fellowship we have a responsibility to honor the guarantees we make to our members.
As a fellowship, we guarantee anonymity for all who join and wish to remain anonymous. As a member of the fellowship, I am responsble for that. This is a personal choice each member has as of right.
It is not good enough to say that personally it doesn't bother me, so it shouldn't bother you, and therefore I don't care. As a fellowship we have a responsibility to honor the guarantees we make to our members.
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Originally Posted by JWS
The vast majority of people that enter the rooms of AA legitmately want to quit drinking. In fact, that's a REQUIREMENT of membership. Sadly, some have no desire whatsoever to do so. Rather, they are only there to avoid incarceration. Yes, I know the success stories of those who first entered on court slips. Still, I find with those not serious about our program. They simply do not respect the spirtitual foundation of our program: anonymity. Again, they don`t even want to be there. Why should they care about gossiping? (their thinking)
Because of my job, I have professional contact with those who break the law. Though I strategically attend meetings to vastly reduce the risk of recognition, it has not eliminated the encounters altogether. Long short, my anonymity has be broken several times. Though my sponsor, who works in the same field, says there was worse places to be seen, that is beside the point. I know for a fact there are true alcoholics who don't come in the rooms for the exact concern I described.
Closed meetings can be just as bad. These guys always have someone who will discreetly sign for them. They are all about attending meetings that minimize their inconvenience. The message is bey
Our 7th tradition says we are fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. So is it about time agents of the government stop mandating people into the rooms? When they are ready on their own, the alcoholic is welcomed and encouraged to return.
Because of my job, I have professional contact with those who break the law. Though I strategically attend meetings to vastly reduce the risk of recognition, it has not eliminated the encounters altogether. Long short, my anonymity has be broken several times. Though my sponsor, who works in the same field, says there was worse places to be seen, that is beside the point. I know for a fact there are true alcoholics who don't come in the rooms for the exact concern I described.
Closed meetings can be just as bad. These guys always have someone who will discreetly sign for them. They are all about attending meetings that minimize their inconvenience. The message is bey
Our 7th tradition says we are fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. So is it about time agents of the government stop mandating people into the rooms? When they are ready on their own, the alcoholic is welcomed and encouraged to return.
I've met came into AA kicking and screaming. Very few have just one day decided they had enough. Stopped drinking, and contacted AA. The majority I've met had some outside force be it legal, career, or relationship issue.
I known I came into AA some 40 years ago because of legal issues. Since AA is completely self supporting, there is no 7th Tradition conflict with the courts. It's an issue that should be delt with at the group level. Bring it up at your at your Home Group next business meeting.
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just to add to the question re funding from state to AA:
not only does AA decline outside contributions, there is also a strict limit on personal contributions. which greatly surprised me...much thought went into these things....who knew???
not only does AA decline outside contributions, there is also a strict limit on personal contributions. which greatly surprised me...much thought went into these things....who knew???
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Over the years, I heard many people say that they came into the rooms because they were mandated, then got the desire to quit from what they heard.
Maybe such people are only a small fraction of those mandated, but even so does that not make it worthwhile?
So many meetings end in a moment of silence for the still suffering addict outside the rooms--but we complain when they end up in the rooms because we do not like how they got there?
Maybe such people are only a small fraction of those mandated, but even so does that not make it worthwhile?
So many meetings end in a moment of silence for the still suffering addict outside the rooms--but we complain when they end up in the rooms because we do not like how they got there?
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 1,060
Take a group conscious and if they don't want court slips signed there, then those court ordered people will not come. Also, I believe that many states have declared AA a religious group. Therefore, court can't order people to attend meetings. That is usually done through a plead bargain and the defendant is agreeing that they need AA to get a lesser charge.
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Originally Posted by JWS
The vast majority of people that enter the rooms of AA legitmately want to quit drinking. In fact, that's a REQUIREMENT of membership. Sadly, some have no desire whatsoever to do so. Rather, they are only there to avoid incarceration. Yes, I know the success stories of those who first entered on court slips. Still, I find with those not serious about our program. They simply do not respect the spirtitual foundation of our program: anonymity. Again, they don`t even want to be there. Why should they care about gossiping? (their thinking)
Because of my job, I have professional contact with those who break the law. Though I strategically attend meetings to vastly reduce the risk of recognition, it has not eliminated the encounters altogether. Long short, my anonymity has be broken several times. Though my sponsor, who works in the same field, says there was worse places to be seen, that is beside the point. I know for a fact there are true alcoholics who don't come in the rooms for the exact concern I described.
Closed meetings can be just as bad. These guys always have someone who will discreetly sign for them. They are all about attending meetings that minimize their inconvenience. The message is bey
Our 7th tradition says we are fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. So is it about time agents of the government stop mandating people into the rooms? When they are ready on their own, the alcoholic is welcomed and encouraged to return.
Because of my job, I have professional contact with those who break the law. Though I strategically attend meetings to vastly reduce the risk of recognition, it has not eliminated the encounters altogether. Long short, my anonymity has be broken several times. Though my sponsor, who works in the same field, says there was worse places to be seen, that is beside the point. I know for a fact there are true alcoholics who don't come in the rooms for the exact concern I described.
Closed meetings can be just as bad. These guys always have someone who will discreetly sign for them. They are all about attending meetings that minimize their inconvenience. The message is bey
Our 7th tradition says we are fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. So is it about time agents of the government stop mandating people into the rooms? When they are ready on their own, the alcoholic is welcomed and encouraged to return.
IMO, if one drunk is brought to a life of recovery by AA, we all win.
Just my $0.02.
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