paulokes

My friend absolutely. .that "Power Greater than Myself" turns out was actually already in me. But blocked/disturbed/chained and limited by my thinking. AAs big book even tells me so.

As you brought it up that's why Power Greater than Myself is more substantial for me than a vague and external-sounding "Higher Power". But I ain't gonna explain it any further for you, me or anyone else.

Sometimes I have rephrased it even further...power greater than my limited conception of myself But yep turns out also that it isn't me...or isn't what I had always come to think of as "Me".

In the spirit of unity I think these conversations are great. Perhaps we should always approach them with a spirit of inquisitiveness and learning though.

As an AA "through and through" person I always bristle a little when folks speak to me of what I really believe as an AA person and what AA has told me I should believe. Cos that ain't been my experience. My experience has probably been closer to yours than you might imagine...the rest is semantics )

P

paulokes

Interesting of you can grit your teeth through the odd "objectional" word

A.A. Recovery – Psychic Change

Quoting the book directly (4th edition AAWS)
The troubling words there are God...Creator etc.. which of course suggest that really we're just trying to fool ourselves into believing in a 'sky fairy'. But my experience...looking past that I came to an understanding which is much deeper and doesn't trouble me at all.

P.s. Apologies if "sky fairy" has offended anyone...it was a throw away remark to illustrate a point

One thing is for sure...I have found the "great reality" and a power by which I can live. And I believe it was inside all along...no need to look outside...just to admit that my current knowledge, personality, resources and self were not enough to deal with life. I needed expanding...for which I needed help

JeffreyAK

That was one of my main issues with AA, and for me that would have gone against everything I believe that long pre-dates alcohol addiction. I just couldn't go there, instead I used it as an excuse to keep drinking (what the hell, I'm one of the unfortunates anyways). For me, the solution was in the other direction - personal empowerment, not reliance on an outside power that isn't me, and understanding that was a pivotal point in my own recovery.

This isn't religion, per se, but it's certainly a religion-based concept, handing our fates over to a greater external power, and that's certainly what it meant to the AA founders who were religious and wrote frequently about God. It works great for many people, it doesn't work at all for many others, and maybe everyone else is somewhere in between.

I firmly believe, whatever works for you is what you should do, and that holds for belief or non-belief in a higher power, too.

paulokes

These conversations have been had SOO many times over the years in so many places

Not a religious concept, or a religious-based concept...but a spiritual one.

And absolutely not dependence on an outside power.

Debates always go in circles because people can't hear each other...that is the nature of the beast

I absolutely agree though what works for people is what they should do. If someone says they struggled or AA doesn't work for them I fully understand and support that. If they say AA doesn't work because it's "this" or "that" or "this is what it REALLY means", and I have a different understanding based on my own experience...I will always share that

After all, this thread seemed to be inviting views on the religious nature of AA...based on the experience of people in AA

P

ScottFromWI

And with that I think it's probably best for all of us to move on, don't you think? This discussion has been had over and over here on this forum and It does usually end up in a debate. Additionally, the Subject has been exhaustively examined from all points of view for the general Alcohlism forum population. Remember we do have 12 step forums for more in depth conversions on said topics