Centered3

I feel like I don't know how to be a friend, and I am full of fear of having authentic friendships in this new authentic life called emotional sobriety.

In my alcoholism, I was living a facade like many of us do. I had a smile on my face and acted extroverted but my authentic self is more introverted.

As a teen, I socialized a lot but there was never any real depth. Plus, whenever I had "stuff" going on in my life, I'd get all emotional and talk my friends' ears off. But there were never any problem-solving, non-emotional type conversations.

I was often so stuck in my own head, that I really never got to know my friends for who they were.

When friends would try to come to me with their stuff, I thought my role was to help them so I often gave unsolicited advice when actually all they wanted was someone to listen to them. (Yeah I was that annoying friend....)

If a friend was sick, I'd bring them or offer to bring them food. Or if it was there birthday, I'd give them gifts or take them out. If a friend was drunk, I'd be her caretaker. I'm not sure I'd stay around long enough to feel the feelings of it all, but underneath I meant well. That was all I knew.

I think it was uncomfortable for me to "be real". I'd often just cut off friendships if I couldn't handle stuff. Or if someone tried to talk to me in a real way, I'd get all hyper and uncomfortable. It's really hard to explain and it's even more difficult to face. I know I was just reacting to the insanity in my childhood home, but still.

Now that I'm sober, I'm trying to figure out this emotional sobriety stuff. I feel like everyone else "got the manual" and I missed out.

Recently, I had a lot of stressful stuff going on in my personal life. I handled it all extremely well--even my therapist said so. But from all the stress, I got physically sick and haven't been feeling well. One of my newer friends was contacting me and I told her I was sick and she asked me to contact her when I was better. I haven't contacted her back. Finally she texted me and was like, "Are you ok??? Did I do something wrong?"

I felt awful! I told her that everything was fine, it was so not anything personal, but that I am an isolater. She appreciated that, because now she will know.

I explained that I need to find a "middle ground" because years ago, I would spew all my emotional sh*t onto my friends when I had stuff going on (but I didn't handle it well when they came to me because I couldn't handle their stuff on top of my stuff), but lately I've gone the opposite extreme of keeping everything in and isolating.

I have no idea how to do that "middle ground". With anything, really. And I desperately want to learn how.

I'm getting better as far as friendships--I'm not spewing personal stuff so quickly, not getting all babbly and anxious if I'm asked personal questions, and I am being more authentic. But it is so hard. I cannot seem to pick up the phone and actually make plans with anyone. Fear of rejection, I think, or fear of leaving my comfort of this isolation. If I don't have close girl friends then I don't have anything to lose, right?

I've spent my life replaying the tapes that I am "no good" or whatever, and so I was always trying to be someone I wasn't, or acting in crazy ways so I could drown out "those tapes". Now that I know those tapes weren't true, and now that I am finally allowing myself to be real, it is scary.

My anxiety keeps getting in the way, too. I seriously feel like I can't even have conversations with people. I think that's why I like typing instead. My anxiety makes me talk too much still, or interrupt people. I can't seem to figure out how to go with a natural flow.

Point in case: I had been out of touch with a cousin of mine for many years. We used to be close. One day, he messaged me on facebook messenger. He sounded really happy to message me. I was so anxious and nervous, that my chats were way too long, and I kept messaging before giving him a chance to answer. I wasn't doing this in an "all-about-me" sort of way. It was pure anxiety. I realized I was doing it in the moment and I apologized. But I am guessing messaging with me must be utterly draining for people. My anxiety just doesn't allow me to slow down or pause. He hasn't messaged with me since. :-(

Recently I had a personal thing happen in my life, and I was sort of surprised that certain friends didn't pick up the phone and call me to see how I was doing. The unhealthy part of me was like, "well these were drinking friends so you're no fun anymore and they don't want to be friends with you so that's why" But then I realized some truth. I don't call anyone. I never call anyone to make plans, and I don't call if they have stuff going on. It's too scary. I'll send a card or a text, but actually calling someone or seeing them F2F is too scary. Which brings up my "fear of being misunderstood" all over again. I don't not call because I don't care. I don't not call because of fear.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. :-) And any similar stories and how you resolved it would be especially hopeful so I don't feel like I'm alone here in idiotsville still trying to figure out this whole being a normal adult thing.

ScottFromWI

I deal with anxiety as well centered and most likely my decades of drinking were an attempt ( failed ) to try and used alcohol to fix it. It was very, very hard to accept the fact that I am indeed an anxious person and seek professional help for it. To me, acceptance of my anxiety was just as important as a accepting my alcoholism, and it made getting help much easiier. Have you ever spoken with a counselor about it by chance? Anxiety is a diagnosable and very treatable condition.

shortstop81

I could have written the same post almost word-for-word.

I'm also in the same boat - learning how navigate personal relationships, specifically friendships. I also feel like I always mean well, but it's also exhausting fostering and maintaining friendships. But on the flip side of the coin, I'm sad that I don't have many intimate friendships that others seem to have.

Good thread, looking forward to more replies.

paulokes

I can relate to huget parts of this and a lot of it is going on for me too!

I had some hugely difficult personal stuff last week at the same time as doing one of the scariest things I have ever done and dealing with all the potential anxiety of that

I am amazed at how everything has remained 'doable'. I have also felt blessed this week at the number of true, authentic friends I have been able to reach out and share this stuff with. People both in and outside of recovery.

I've been reminded this week...the stuff of real connection is reaching out, being completely honest and risking vulnerability. As you say this doesn't mean blabbing, overdisclosing, rescuing or playing victim. It just means reaching out to people you trust and sharing the truth/sharing the pain...and being open to hearing the same from them

P

Andante

I can relate to a lot of your post. I find myself constantly misjudging the emotional context of social interactions. As you say, it's like everyone else got the manual (which is constantly changing and updating), and I'm not getting the revised copies. Why does this seem so intuitively easy for everyone else?

I agree with Scott's idea to target your anxiety issues separately. It helps me to understand that anxiety can be based on more than just one's state of mind -- it's also a matter of biochemistry. That opens the door to alternative treatment approaches which go beyond AA's supposition that all anxiety is about self-centered fear. In my case, I often think what manifests as "self-centered fear" is actually driven by physiology.

I look forward to more responses on this topic too.

gregknight

Like others above, what you wrote, Centered, could have come right out of my head. I am in the same boat and have no advice, as I haven’t figured it out yet. I've gone from being the most extroverted person to someone who's anxiety skyrockets at the thought of going to the store, for fear of running into someone I know, or someone who will talk to me. I'm a sober...but a lonely recluse who is terrified of people because relationships with people=stress, triggers, fear of heartache, etc. I did start seeing a therapist which has helped but I am a long way from being mentally healthy with this.

HTown

Have you checked out Meetups in your area. Larger groups of people to walk or run with or whatever. They offer ways to meet others that are not as anxiety producing as being the one to make plans. That being said, to be a friend you must reach out to others. You must make plans once in awhile, and my personal key is never expecting anything, just giving. Sometimes I do all of the listening, and sometimes my friends listen. I try not to keep score, or a balance sheet. People let you down, it is human nature. So I try to just accept that going in.

stevieg46

Hi C3 .

Of all the people I have ever known ''the one that has caused me the biggest problems is myself ''. It took me a while to have an ''identity '' for myself its no use trying to do what we feel we are expected to do for whatever reason for instance feeling that is the normal thing to do or that is what is expected .

Where does this lifestyle chart come from ? its expected of me , it is the right thing to do , they are due it , it is my place to do this ?? what is the use if we are not ''comfortable with ourselves '' I gotta be me . I mix with other people quite easily because I am comfortable with myself , I also do not put any expectations on other people including family nor do I live my life dependent on others reactions to any given situations . I depend and rely totally upon God /HP as all humans will sooner or later even unknowingly let you down , I practice non attachment in most circumstances .

Because I practice this I m comfortable in all situations there are no surprises or let downs cos my priorities are right for me . I believe you are having problems with fear cos once you open the door to fear all sorts of things happen and this happens when usually we are uncomfortable with some places people or things then loneliness can rear its ugly head .

Personally I am at heart pretty much a loner I am comfortable on my own or among'st people comfortable in my own skin in any given situation . I have never been anxious or stressed since I detached with love to all humans beings including family that is not selfish or self centered I love my family it upsets me if they are upset and it does not mean that I do not care for them or people or friends in general . If we are not comfortable with ourselves we cannot be comfortable with other people from all walks of life.

Each morning I connect and try to have conscious contact with God /HP , I then ask for to be of maximum benefit to all others which is loving my neighbor .

I am responsible for the effort but not the results , try not to think of the problems in front of you ! look at the strength behind you and keep it simple . this is my two cents it may not apply to you .

Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

BrendaChenowyth

I don't "get it", personally. What are we supposed to do or talk about when we hang out with girl friends? Sleepovers with guy friends were what made the most sense to me, you didn't have to figure out what to talk about, just have drinks, watch a movie, talk about the movie, do whatever, sleep - good times. No awkwardness, no pressure.

I don't know how to relate to anyone unless I am in a defined role and even then I feel unsure of how they will take me.

I toy with the idea of trying to be like some women I see who are always helping their friends. Always doing something for them. but is that genuine friendship or just being used so that you can feel important in someone else's eyes.. it's purely selfishness, selfishness on their part for taking from you and giving nothing in return, and selfishness on your part for only doing things for them because of what you get out of it.

ScottFromWI

It's entirely possible to give of yourself in an unselfish way. Doesn't matter if you are a woman or a man either.

BrendaChenowyth

I know, I was just saying that I found it difficult to do so....

darkling

OMG. I've never heard anyone else say that.

I'm about to be a great-grandma and I still don't have this "being an adult" thing figured out!
Centered, you're certainly not alone here in idiotsville! I'm sitting here waiting for enlightenment too.

darkling

[except now it's about pizza instead of drinks.]
I have just always related to men better than women. I have tried and tried for 25 years to develop friendships with women. IDK why, but I just can't do it. With men, easy!

But AA so severely frowns on co-mingling of genders . . .
Yes, I understand the theory, but even now with 25yrs sober and almost as many married, it's still suspect for me to have a male friend or heaven forbid ask a male for a ride to a meeting?

I feel like I'm being pressured to be social/have friends but not with THAT person!!

Dee74

All my life I felt like I was a fraud and that one day I'd be found out for not being as nice or as brilliant as everyone thought I was.

As an adult I started being whatever anyone else wanted me to be, to avoid people not liking me.

It's no wonder I lost sight of who I was...but I rediscovered that person in recovery.

I embraced myself -I fixed what I could and I live with the rest.

Being comfortable in myself and my own company takes some of the desperation I used to feel in relating to people.

Some people like me - others don't.
Whaddya gonna do?

I'm a human being, not a saint.

I have flaws and some days I'm difficult to be around - but I've found people who accept that, and I in turn accept them.

Authenticity is a good place to be.

You seem thoughtful and sensitive Centered - I'm sure you'll find things will work out for you too

D

BrendaChenowyth

Well, yeah. Last time it was really good pizza and watched Interstellar.

Overshared again...

fini

darkling, the only reference to hanging out with other genders in AA i've seen refers to a suggestion for same-gender sponsorship.

darkling

fini - where I am, you're not even supposed to ask a member of the opposite sex for a ride to a meeting. GASP!
Brenda - and !


Sorry Centered! I didn't mean to high-jack your thread!

paulokes

On the subject of getting on better with members of the opposite sex...I have very nearly been involved in a messy situation.

Someone I know from work, and have become very close to is in the process of leaving their partner and admitted to me there were now feelings involved between us, more than friendship. She has kids with the man she is leaving.

I was surprised TBH bit looking back maybe a little naive. I was in a similar situation 15 years ago, was not so aware of my own motives at the time and became directly involved in the breakup of a marriage...and all the hurt that involved. At least this time, sober and self aware, I can keep an eye on things and prevent people becoming more hurt than they need to be.

IMO that's part of why AA suggests same sex or non ambiguous friendships. They are incredibly important on the way to learning how to have authentic, manipulation-free friendships and relationships in general.

P

shortstop81

Sorry if this is detracting from the OP..

AA's stance on same-sex sponsorships/connections is even more complicated when you're gay (as I am). In fact, my sponsor is ALSO a gay woman, although that is definitely not the reason I chose her and there is zero chance of any boundaries being crossed.

I seem to get along better with men in general, but I'm trying to foster some friendships with other women. Women generally seem to discuss feelings etc. more than men, and that's maybe why men seem "safe", haha.

In fact, I've become friends with one of the older gentleman from my home group - we have a lot of shared interests. I have a sneaky feeling he's a bit sweet on me, but I don't get any creepy vibes and I think it's mainly innocent. I'm almost afraid to let on that I'm gay, because I get the impression he's kind of 'old school' and wonder if that will alter our relationship. I know that sounds ridiculous, because he'll either accept me as I am or not, and I have no control over that. I guess I'm just not in the mood for rejection at this point.

fini

shortstop, it can get complicated alright.
or maybe a better word is to complex.
lots of trans folk at my meeting, and people who don't identify by binary genders, so...'same sex' and 'opposite sex' makes no sense there whatsoever.

and while it's complex in some ways, it is simply freeing in others....puts the emphasis on the person and who and how they are, what we both can bring.