Having authentic frienships is scary
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I'm here for you, D - I know that our friendship via PM and email has been a good one for me! You are a caring person who often doesn't give yourself enough credit for "things" you do (in this case, having a friendship) well. Hugs.
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I think that's why I added the phrase "non ambiguous"...some of the best relationships to develop are the ones where there are clear and unambiguos boundaries...like one or the other being in long term relationships, different outlooks on relationships/gender attraction, age differences of a generation or so...so that both parties can be reasonablly clear what is and isn't going on.
Getting emotionally close to others can be confusing if you're never quite sure what it means. Getting emotionally close to people is what authenticity in friendships/relationships is about I think
So maybe it's good to have some safe/complication-free friendships to practise this stuff on
P
Getting emotionally close to others can be confusing if you're never quite sure what it means. Getting emotionally close to people is what authenticity in friendships/relationships is about I think
So maybe it's good to have some safe/complication-free friendships to practise this stuff on P
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI 
I deal with anxiety as well centered and most likely my decades of drinking were an attempt ( failed ) to try and used alcohol to fix it. It was very, very hard to accept the fact that I am indeed an anxious person and seek professional help for it. To me, acceptance of my anxiety was just as important as a accepting my alcoholism, and it made getting help much easiier. Have you ever spoken with a counselor about it by chance? Anxiety is a diagnosable and very treatable condition.
Your post helped me realize that I need to let go of the shame and talk more with my counselor about the anxiety.
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Originally Posted by shortstop81
I could have written the same post almost word-for-word.
I'm also in the same boat - learning how navigate personal relationships, specifically friendships. I also feel like I always mean well, but it's also exhausting fostering and maintaining friendships. But on the flip side of the coin, I'm sad that I don't have many intimate friendships that others seem to have.
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Originally Posted by paulokes
I can relate to huget parts of this and a lot of it is going on for me too!
I had some hugely difficult personal stuff last week at the same time as doing one of the scariest things I have ever done and dealing with all the potential anxiety of that
I am amazed at how everything has remained 'doable'. I have also felt blessed this week at the number of true, authentic friends I have been able to reach out and share this stuff with. People both in and outside of recovery.
I've been reminded this week...the stuff of real connection is reaching out, being completely honest and risking vulnerability. As you say this doesn't mean blabbing, overdisclosing, rescuing or playing victim. It just means reaching out to people you trust and sharing the truth/sharing the pain...and being open to hearing the same from them
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Originally Posted by Andante
I can relate to a lot of your post. I find myself constantly misjudging the emotional context of social interactions. As you say, it's like everyone else got the manual (which is constantly changing and updating), and I'm not getting the revised copies. Why does this seem so intuitively easy for everyone else?
I agree with Scott's idea to target your anxiety issues separately. It helps me to understand that anxiety can be based on more than just one's state of mind -- it's also a matter of biochemistry. That opens the door to alternative treatment approaches which go beyond AA's supposition that all anxiety is about self-centered fear. In my case, I often think what manifests as "self-centered fear" is actually driven by physiology.
What alternative treatments were you thinking of? I do think a lot of my anxiety is about self centered fear if I take a step back and look at it. But I haven't been very diligent about pausing and asking myself what the fear is. Maybe that'd help.
I think for me, too there's some sort of physiological component with caffeine and sugar but that's not a major part of it. I think so much for me personally goes back to plain old fear.
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Originally Posted by gregknight
Like others above, what you wrote, Centered, could have come right out of my head. I am in the same boat and have no advice, as I haven’t figured it out yet. I've gone from being the most extroverted person to someone who's anxiety skyrockets at the thought of going to the store, for fear of running into someone I know, or someone who will talk to me. I'm a sober...but a lonely recluse who is terrified of people because relationships with people=stress, triggers, fear of heartache, etc. I did start seeing a therapist which has helped but I am a long way from being mentally healthy with this.
I'm sorry you are a "lonely recluse". :-( Do you at least socialize with people in AA or other recovery program you're in? I know I have to force myself to take baby steps with being my authentic self out there in life. Some days it goes well, other days, I'm in anxiety/fear. I'm glad you're seeing a therapist. and that s/he has helped you.
It's nice that we are all in this journey together.
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Originally Posted by HTown
Have you checked out Meetups in your area. Larger groups of people to walk or run with or whatever. They offer ways to meet others that are not as anxiety producing as being the one to make plans. That being said, to be a friend you must reach out to others. You must make plans once in awhile, and my personal key is never expecting anything, just giving. Sometimes I do all of the listening, and sometimes my friends listen. I try not to keep score, or a balance sheet. People let you down, it is human nature. So I try to just accept that going in.
Thank you for explaining what it means to be a friend. I think I should add this to my list of "living amends". It's even hard for me to reach out to people in AA as a friend. I love what you wrote about people letting you down that it's human nature. Maybe I fear that I won't be a perfect friend. And maybe I had too high expectations of friends in the past.
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Originally Posted by stevieg46
Hi C3 . Of all the people I have ever known ''the one that has caused me the biggest problems is myself ''. It took me a while to have an ''identity '' for myself its no use trying to do what we feel we are expected to do for whatever reason for instance feeling that is the normal thing to do or that is what is expected .
Where does this lifestyle chart come from ? its expected of me , it is the right thing to do , they are due it , it is my place to do this ?? what is the use if we are not ''comfortable with ourselves '' I gotta be me . I mix with other people quite easily because I am comfortable with myself , I also do not put any expectations on other people including family nor do I live my life dependent on others reactions to any given situations . I depend and rely totally upon God /HP as all humans will sooner or later even unknowingly let you down , I practice non attachment in most circumstances .
I love what you wrote, too, about not putting expectations on other people. That keeps me out of resentment. And your point about not worrying about other people's reactions is so key for us co-dependent types--thank you so much for that reminder. I'm reminded that I don't need to seek approval or check for facial expressions anymore when I say something. I have God's approval and that's all I need.
I love your last line so much. I must remember to be non-attached to what anyone says to me, even if it's someone at church or an AA meeting. I so needed to read this and the reminders that humans will let us down because we're all imperfect.
Because I practice this I m comfortable in all situations there are no surprises or let downs cos my priorities are right for me . I believe you are having problems with fear cos once you open the door to fear all sorts of things happen and this happens when usually we are uncomfortable with some places people or things then loneliness can rear its ugly head .
Personally I am at heart pretty much a loner I am comfortable on my own or among'st people comfortable in my own skin in any given situation .
I have never been anxious or stressed since I detached with love to all humans beings including family that is not selfish or self centered I love my family it upsets me if they are upset and it does not mean that I do not care for them or people or friends in general .
If we are not comfortable with ourselves we cannot be comfortable with other people from all walks of life.
Each morning I connect and try to have conscious contact with God /HP , I then ask for to be of maximum benefit to all others which is loving my neighbor .
I am responsible for the effort but not the results
[QUOTE] try not to think of the problems in front of you ! look at the strength behind you and keep it simple . [/QUOTE
I've never heard this but it's perfectly beautiful. I am way too quick to forget about all the strength behind me in this wonderful life-changing spiritual journey I am taking.
]this is my two cents it may not apply to you .
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
I don't "get it", personally. What are we supposed to do or talk about when we hang out with girl friends?
I don't know how to relate to anyone unless I am in a defined role and even then I feel unsure of how they will take me.
I toy with the idea of trying to be like some women I see who are always helping their friends. Always doing something for them. but is that genuine friendship or just being used so that you can feel important in someone else's eyes.. it's purely selfishness, selfishness on their part for taking from you and giving nothing in return, and selfishness on your part for only doing things for them because of what you get out of it.
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Originally Posted by darkling
OMG. I've never heard anyone else say that.
I'm about to be a great-grandma and I still don't have this "being an adult" thing figured out!
Centered, you're certainly not alone here in idiotsville! I'm sitting here waiting for enlightenment too.
I'm about to be a great-grandma and I still don't have this "being an adult" thing figured out!
Centered, you're certainly not alone here in idiotsville! I'm sitting here waiting for enlightenment too.
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Originally Posted by darkling
I have just always related to men better than women. I have tried and tried for 25 years to develop friendships with women. IDK why, but I just can't do it. With men, easy!
But AA so severely frowns on co-mingling of genders . . .
Yes, I understand the theory, but even now with 25yrs sober and almost as many married, it's still suspect for me to have a male friend or heaven forbid ask a male for a ride to a meeting?
Yes, I understand the theory, but even now with 25yrs sober and almost as many married, it's still suspect for me to have a male friend or heaven forbid ask a male for a ride to a meeting?
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Originally Posted by Dee74
All my life I felt like I was a fraud and that one day I'd be found out for not being as nice or as brilliant as everyone thought I was.
As an adult I started being whatever anyone else wanted me to be, to avoid people not liking me.
It's no wonder I lost sight of who I was...but I rediscovered that person in recovery.
I embraced myself -I fixed what I could and I live with the rest.
Being comfortable in myself and my own company takes some of the desperation I used to feel in relating to people.
Some people like me - others don't.
Whaddya gonna do?
Whaddya gonna do?
I'm a human being, not a saint.
I have flaws and some days I'm difficult to be around - but I've found people who accept that, and I in turn accept them.
Authenticity is a good place to be.
You seem thoughtful and sensitive Centered - I'm sure you'll find things will work out for you too
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Originally Posted by paulokes
On the subject of getting on better with members of the opposite sex...I have very nearly been involved in a messy situation.
Someone I know from work, and have become very close to is in the process of leaving their partner and admitted to me there were now feelings involved between us, more than friendship. She has kids with the man she is leaving.
I was surprised TBH bit looking back maybe a little naive. I was in a similar situation 15 years ago, was not so aware of my own motives at the time and became directly involved in the breakup of a marriage...and all the hurt that involved.
At least this time, sober and self aware, I can keep an eye on things and prevent people becoming more hurt than they need to be.
IMO that's part of why AA suggests same sex or non ambiguous friendships. They are incredibly important on the way to learning how to have authentic, manipulation-free friendships and relationships in general.
I don't know if those in AA here do a 4th step "sex inventory" but my sponsor taught me to write it about all of my opposite sex friendships, crushes, dates, boyfriends, etc and I learned a lot. Just because I think and behave one way doesn't mean the other person is thinking and gonna behave in the same way. That's putting unfair expectations on them.
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Originally Posted by shortstop81
Sorry if this is detracting from the OP..
AA's stance on same-sex sponsorships/connections is even more complicated when you're gay (as I am). In fact, my sponsor is ALSO a gay woman, although that is definitely not the reason I chose her and there is zero chance of any boundaries being crossed.
I seem to get along better with men in general, but I'm trying to foster some friendships with other women.
Women generally seem to discuss feelings etc. more than men, and that's maybe why men seem "safe", haha.
In fact, I've become friends with one of the older gentleman from my home group - we have a lot of shared interests. I have a sneaky feeling he's a bit sweet on me, but I don't get any creepy vibes and I think it's mainly innocent. I'm almost afraid to let on that I'm gay, because I get the impression he's kind of 'old school' and wonder if that will alter our relationship. I know that sounds ridiculous, because he'll either accept me as I am or not, and I have no control over that. I guess I'm just not in the mood for rejection at this point.
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Originally Posted by August252015
I know that our friendship via PM and email has been a good one for me! You are a caring person who often doesn't give yourself enough credit for "things" you do (in this case, having a friendship) well. Hugs.
Sometimes I think I sabotage friendships or run away from them to avoid the rejection/hurt that I think will eventually happen. I have to "trust" now in this "new" life I have.
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Originally Posted by Centered3
I don't know if those in AA here do a 4th step "sex inventory" but my sponsor taught me to write it about all of my opposite sex friendships, crushes, dates, boyfriends, etc and I learned a lot. Just because I think and behave one way doesn't mean the other person is thinking and gonna behave in the same way. That's putting unfair expectations on them.
Much more than what we did, who we did it with and wether we were hanging from a tree 
Here's a thing I learnt...despite being a heterosexual male, I have been known to flirt in friendships with male friends who see themselves as homosexual. Motives weren't sexual for me, but motives there still were! Surprised the hell out of me, never realised it before and didn't even notice I was doing it...Until I became aware.
Sexuality can be a source of power...and the temptation is always to use power, even in the littlest, seemingly inconsequential ways
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I have had intense feelings for women in the past and was confused about what it meant. I tend to have rigid thinking (duh, addiction) and so when these two instances occurred I thought it meant more than it did. I am attracted predominantly to men, but sometimes a female with the right energy will draw me in, and it doesn't have to *mean* anything. It's about the person's energy.
But a lot of female energy is very negative, very uninviting. Have others noticed this? When I am at my worst, drinking or in a very negative head space like I was in the past couple months, I am very insecure, so I can't deal with nasty women. When I am feeling good about myself (as I am starting to now) I can give off the kind of energy I wish to attract. I find that usually works. When I feel good, I can approach anyone and no matter how tightly wound they are at first, they will relax around me after a moment. As long as I am loose and open.
But I still don't really know how to initiate interaction, I just run in to people at school and work and depending on my mood we click or we don't. But if it were my day off, would I call a friend up and ask if they want to hang out? That's just super awkward to me.
But a lot of female energy is very negative, very uninviting. Have others noticed this? When I am at my worst, drinking or in a very negative head space like I was in the past couple months, I am very insecure, so I can't deal with nasty women. When I am feeling good about myself (as I am starting to now) I can give off the kind of energy I wish to attract. I find that usually works. When I feel good, I can approach anyone and no matter how tightly wound they are at first, they will relax around me after a moment. As long as I am loose and open.
But I still don't really know how to initiate interaction, I just run in to people at school and work and depending on my mood we click or we don't. But if it were my day off, would I call a friend up and ask if they want to hang out? That's just super awkward to me.
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Speaking only for myself Brenda, I can't say I have found women to be more negative or problematic. What I have noticed with time is I may at times feel more insecure around women.
Again as a guy I'll say that has been about my insecurity. Plays out in lots of ways...fears of being judged, rejected...even (very much my stuff) fears they will think I am 'after' something when I am not.
Of course insecurity has often affected my friendships or views of guys too. Echoing the thoughts of others, authentic friendships/ relationships are ones where I can be completely myself without fear of judgement, rejection, temptation to play a role or part etc. Insecurity has been at the root of all my troubles in this area.
P
Again as a guy I'll say that has been about my insecurity. Plays out in lots of ways...fears of being judged, rejected...even (very much my stuff) fears they will think I am 'after' something when I am not.
Of course insecurity has often affected my friendships or views of guys too. Echoing the thoughts of others, authentic friendships/ relationships are ones where I can be completely myself without fear of judgement, rejection, temptation to play a role or part etc. Insecurity has been at the root of all my troubles in this area.
P
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