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Is it all about personal accountability?

Old 01-02-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post

At some point, taking responsibility turned to taking blame, and blame turned to shame, and shame turned to self-loathing...
"You cannot change the past" is true in a literal sense, but don't let those words become a straight jacket. You can often change the consequences of past actions with your behavior in the present. Taking FULL responsibility for past involves doing what is possible to repair the damage done. This is the basic idea of making amends and it's worked quite well for many of us .
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
What I think... is that when I was under the influence of alcohol it prevented me from seeing the consequences of my behaviors...
Drinks too much and ones thinking certainly does become impaired.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post
"You cannot change the past" is true in a literal sense, but don't let those words become a straight jacket. You can often change the consequences of past actions with your behavior in the present. Taking FULL responsibility for past involves doing what is possible to repair the damage done. This is the basic idea of making amends and it's worked quite well for many of us .
Amends aren't always possible.. The problem is I feel like I'm trying too hard to turn my life around, if that makes sense.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:27 PM
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I dunno....does it have to be 100% one way or the other?

I don't have the gift of perspective yet, as I'm only 2 months in. But I honestly believe that there were many things I did while drinking that I wouldn't have done sober. But...personal responsibility still falls in my shoulders in that I continued to drink, and pissed away many attempts at sobriety.

I know I'm not a bad, immoral person. Even good people with good intentions do bad things. But at least as a recovering alcoholic I get the chance to identify these behaviours and DO something about them. Not many people are willing to do that.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:33 PM
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Mindfulness has really helped me. There are some great books, articles and magazines talking about it. If you do a google search you will find a ton of information.

We can't change the past, we can only learn from it, guilt will eat away at you if you let it.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
Amends aren't always possible..
Actually they are. I think your understanding of what amends are might make you think so though. They are quite different from an apology and don't always have to be given in person to the affected parties - which is of course not always possible. Are you referring to the affair in this specific case?
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:50 PM
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Brenda, I reckon you'll have seen already from the various responders that this business of personal accountability is not a straightforward thing. It certainly - just in my experience - can be a slippery slope towards the kind of self-blame / self-denigration that you spoke of earlier.....but only if one allows the entire sum of one's life actions that have harmed others or oneself to kind of 'gather steam' and roll towards one like an avenging mob, or as if you're facing an unsympathetic courtroom.

I know that I've done that many times - the results for my sober emotional health were often dire. I would occasionally allow such an inner storm - which just started out, I thought, as objective reflection! - to tip me into a seething frenzy.....and later drink 'on it'. Not at all suggesting that you would do the same, mind!

Untangling what is - and ISN'T - our blame / responsibility for actions taken when drunk (and / or those not-taken, which end up harming us or others too) is better undertaken with some more objective person together. That's why - although I'm not a huge fan of the Steps, for example - the underlying principle behind Step 5's 'AND another human being' is there.

The main prerequisites for such a 'listener' IMO, is to have lived a bit, to have a good understanding of human frailties and strengths, and to have come to an understanding themselves of self-compassion. It can a trusted rabbi, priest / parson , counsellor, psychologist, AA sponsor or mentor, or any other mentor-figure - whom you trust, or if no one exists currently, that you feel you can come to trust, and with whom you feel safe from judgement.

Anna's suggestion - which she regularly offers to many of us, not just you :-) - is that writing stuff out in a journal, is definitely a go-er. But if you're prone - as I am - to then stewing in it (Huxley's 'rolling in the muck ' - thanks Fly n Buy for that great reminder!), that's when it's quite helpful, indeed cathartic, to share and discuss this stuff with some person like I've suggested above.

Please also note: you're still quite young in years, and sobriety - and guess what? you, like everyone else on this planet, whether having been an addict, still an addict, never an addict, sober as a judge for the term of their natural lives, will continue to do yourself or others some degree of harm, unintentionally or not. It's part of being human. That's why all of us do better if we practice making amends as soon as we can, once aware of what we might have done, whether the other person accepts them or not, and practicing forgiveness of ourselves - and often, of them as well, as they too may well have played a part. So, no, it's not ALL 'your fault', not every time. This is a crucial but sometimes subtle distinction.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
So in the first three months of my sobriety I was all about taking personal accountability, owning my past mistakes, learning lessons, resolving to make better decisions going forward...

At some point, taking responsibility turned to taking blame, and blame turned to shame, and shame turned to self-loathing... You know what happens next.

How do I get back to that place of having peace with everything? How do you keep from blaming yourself for all the hurt you caused while drinking?

I never wanted to cop out and say "I couldn't help it! My addiction made me do it!" because I believe that I had the ability to make my own choices and that I chose to do the wrong thing over and over and over. But I am starting to wonder if that is really true at all...
Brenda, I think you should cut yourself a lot of slack. You had a disease, no different than cancer. If you would not do something now, not drinking, that you did when you were in the heart of the disease, then I don't think you should blame yourself. It was the disease acting, not you. And you got better as soon as you could. I don't care if that was after 2 years or 25 years, it was still as soon as you were able to get better. Use your energy instead to remain sober, not to kick yourself when you've already had to battle something so difficult in life. It's just not fair to yourself.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:58 PM
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BC,
I don't think you can go back to the peace you had, but you can certainly go forward towards peace. the one you had didn't last, and that, I think, is about progress as you're sober longer....you have gained some understanding and insight, and "stuff" is coming up, disturbances.

guilt, if you've done wrong, is an entirely appropriate feeling. if you didn't feel it, there would surely be something amiss.

being accountable means to me that I admit to myself and to those I harmed hat I did these things, regardless of the fact I was actively alcoholic. it was I who did them. being accountable means taking responsibility. I made amends. there are different ways of going about that, of course, and possibility of causing more harm. i found the AA steps a design to help me do that, a process to help me get to where I was willing and able, and then move on from there.

for me, it's neither about accepting that I am or was a terrible person, nor that I was controlled by my addiction and somehow now not accountable for my behaviour. it's been very much about taking responsibility for what I did and do, no matter what 'state' I was in.

righting the wrongs brings peace.
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
Actually they are. I think your understanding of what amends are might make you think so though. They are quite different from an apology and don't always have to be given in person to the affected parties - which is of course not always possible. Are you referring to the affair in this specific case?
Then what does it mean to make amends to someone? If they never actually hear from you, and you never make up for having hurt them, how are you making amends to them?
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
Then what does it mean to make amends to someone? If they never actually hear from you, and you never make up for having hurt them, how are you making amends to them?
Living amends are a way of living your life in a way to not let whatever happened before happen again. It's literally amending YOUR life to live in a new, better way. Let's say for example someone was physically abusive to another person when they were drinking. Contacting that person to make direct amends may not be appropriate, or even legal. So a living amend might be to go through anger management or even volunteer for a domestic violence group as an example.
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:49 PM
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I have been doing that, only without the awareness that it falls under "making amends".. One part of it was moving on to a new home care case where I have the opportunity to show that I can maintain professionalism and respect for others..
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
I have been doing that, only without the awareness that it falls under "making amends".. One part of it was moving on to a new home care case where I have the opportunity to show that I can maintain professionalism and respect for others..
So keep doing it :-) Perhaps you could think of some other ways to help bolster this particluar amend as well that don't involve a direct apology.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
Amends aren't always possible.. The problem is I feel like I'm trying too hard to turn my life around, if that makes sense.
Amends are always possible. You just need more guidance from someone who is
more familiar with the process. If, for example, if you have wronged someone and they have since passed away, what then? Well, there are always people in need and who may have suffered a similar fate to the person you harmed in the past. The amends are made to this surrogate. IN FULL.

Or perhaps to inform someone of a transgression you committed against them (about which they are ignorant) might hurt them more that any subsequent good you could hope to do after informing them. Then you do the amends as best you can without informing them.

Many people in AA have extensive experience with this process. In any event, it's wise to run a plan for amends past an impartial person before you take action.

Hope you find your way out of this Brenda. Don't close any doors before you know for certain they cannot lead you to a solution. Amends are a powerful spiritual process.

All the best
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post
... In any event, it's wise to run a plan for amends past an impartial person before you take action.

Roger that.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
Living amends are a way of living your life in a way to not let whatever happened before happen again. It's literally amending YOUR life to live in a new, better way.
I grew up in a household where amends were regularly made. The problem is the behavior never changed.

When I got sober no one especially my wife wanted to hear I was sorry.

What they wanted was a change in my behavior and rightfully so.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken33xx View Post
I grew up in a household where amends were regularly made. The problem is the behavior never changed.

When I got sober no one especially my wife wanted to hear I was sorry.

What they wanted was a change in my behavior and rightfully so.
This. SO this. By the time I finished my last drunk none of my loved ones wanted to hear 'sorry' anymore. In fact, they didn't really want to hear what I had to say at all. And at the time it was crushing because I wanted to make everything better RIGHT NOW, as us addicts are wont to do.

The only way I can make amends moving forward is 'walking the walk'. The good news is, is that it works.
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
I have been doing that, only without the awareness that it falls under "making amends".. One part of it was moving on to a new home care case where I have the opportunity to show that I can maintain professionalism and respect for others..
That's good.

When we relinquish responsibility for ourselves we do things that aren't good choices. At the time we don't even think. We just take what we want. Being sober, and accountable is about thinking, making the right choices based on the needs of ourselves and others (rather than just our wants). The whole point of reflecting on the things that we did wrong, and the ways we behaved negatively, is to learn from it, and to use those lessons to move forward. Many of the character flaws that lead us to act out in certain ways won't disappear over night, drunk or sober, so it's not always easy to do (or even know) the next right thing. This is when I was always so grateful for a having a sponsor to guide me through this stuff.

In AA the next steps, after making those inventories and sharing them, is actually more about becoming willing to change, because most of us, even when we see our faults and understand the consequences of us acting on them, aren't ready immediately to have them removed. And until we do that, amends are always going to be a little tricksy to do, without being tempted to act on those old character flaws without even realising it.

It can sometimes feel like we need more instant relief. Thing is, we get it as we get it. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. It's an ongoing process. Like those amends.

When my sponsor went through my amends list with me, I was kind of relieved at how many were noted as 'living' amends. No immediate action or embarrassing conversations necessary. Then the reality of it hit me. These amends would be lived. ONGOING. On and on. Suddenly I wasn't so sure I wouldn't have preferred a one off job! Lol. But usually doing the right thing gives its own reward, so as time passes and I keep doing my best, I notice my life getting increasingly easier and the promises coming true for me.

You're doing great BC. Just keep going.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Berrybean View Post
Many of the character flaws that lead us to act out in certain ways won't disappear over night, drunk or sober, so it's not always easy to do (or even know) the next right thing. This is when I was always so grateful for a having a sponsor to guide me through this stuff.
This is so true.. I continue to struggle with guilt, shame, a general sense of dissatisfaction, and with relationships, even after 3 years sober. Being an ACOA, sobriety was just the very beginning of what I'm sure will be a long process. Even sober, my ego is hard at work - telling me stories, creating anxiety, guilt, sensitivity to criticism, fear of confrontation, etc. Of course, I am human, but when I drank I just didn't have to deal with the emotions.

Once I was sober, the first year was a roller coaster of emotions and some really bad decisions, then I began to see all the dysfunction. It's been a long, slow process, with therapy, AA step work, reading, etc.. but at least now I can recognize the thinking and behavior patterns, and self correct. But I still get stuck in my head sometimes, and I still make mistakes. Ultimately I have to just be grateful, accept life as it is, and accept that I'm doing the best I can.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:35 AM
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I dealt with my own shame and remorse by accepting that I had done some pretty reprehensible things. I accepted the past events. Yep, that happened. All of it. And I made peace within myself by vowing, along with never drinking again, to never again act in that way. I gave myself a fresh start. I conflated my sobriety vow with my forgiveness, which strengthened it in a very important way. Never again would I be a person who acted in that way because I will never again drink.

Give yourself permission to move forward, BrendaC, or you will get stuck. And you do that by forgiving yourself. You can be the person you really are, the authentic you. Don't let your past mistakes mess your future.

This is what we do for others whom we love. We accept, we forgive, we allow them to live in this moment while doing their best. Now do it for you.
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