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Old 12-28-2016, 08:43 AM
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What do you think?

Happy Holidays to all....
So I've been stewing over something and thought I'd get some opinions. In one of my recovery groups led by a professional addiction therapist (who isn't an addict)....he lectured us on how addiction was really about 'greed'....and that really ticked me off...because my addiction felt like desperation...a soul twisting pain that was desperate to be soothed...a loud clatter in my ever fiber that needed to be soothed...medicated.
I didn't say anything to him about how offensive it was to describe my experience as 'greed'....because I'm trying to listen and take time to consider people's input before I react....one thing I know for sure is that I've been wrong about a lot...and that kept me sick.
What do you think...would you label your addiction as 'greed'.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:48 AM
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No I wouldn't label addiction as greed. Some professionals are more helpful than others. Personal experience sometimes helps, or at least some empathy.

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Old 12-28-2016, 08:53 AM
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I think I would tend to agree with him more than disagree. Every addict ultimately wants more. More booze. Dope. Sex. Food. Respect. Love. Admiration. Praise. Whatever it is that fills that hole inside (even if it's not real, as in the case of addiction) we always want more. At lease I know I did. I always wanted my fair share of every single thing in life that gave me pleasure. I was greedy as hell. But it's not that I wanted to be. Was just the nature of my disease.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:54 AM
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I sorta dont get "Greed". i connect with your soul twisting pain u mentioned...that NEEDS to be soothed. as for my alcoholism i could say Greedy because....I want and need MORE, more, more. i put myself and my drunk before others, or their feelings. i dont care about anything except more alcohol....those all make me think "Greedy"
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:00 AM
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I'll talk about alcoholism because that's what I know.

I never understood why I couldn't control or get a grip on the amount I drank, why it felt like I needed more after 6 hours of drinking than I did when I started.

It wasn't like an appetite though. If I am hungry I'll eat until I'm full. Then stop. Or if I am being greedy I will eat more than I need. Then stop because I feel sick. Probably regret it and wish I stopped sooner but I will still stop.

Alcoholism was more of a need, which I could never really justify or explain after the event. It became a priority and came before everything else as a basic need that I could never really satisfy.

So not greed. More of a bottomless pit that I kept trying to fill.

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Old 12-28-2016, 09:04 AM
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I wouldn't attend an addiction group led by someone who is not an addict. They don't understand. If we could have stopped we would have right? Who the heck wants to watch their life and relationships burn to the ground?? Who builds up a good life for themselves and then tears it down? Addicts do. Non addicts do not understand. It's not a matter of self control....it is an illness.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:05 AM
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I agree that addiction becomes the need for 'more' but the ROOT of addiction isn't greed...not in my opinion...it's pain....the need to get rid of the pain can get 'greedy' I guess as we end up putting it first....but addiction happens before the greed kicks in....greed may be a result of addiction...but the two words "addiction and greed" should not be thought of synonymously.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:06 AM
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I would say that my addiction was very selfish for sure. I thought of myself and my drinking before my friends, my family and my job for years. Whether that's "Greed" or not I really couldn't say.

I think it's also important to remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and we don't have to agree with them all, in fact we will probably disagree more than agree. Letting someone else's opinion bother us is really counterproductive as it only brings up negative thoughts in our own mind.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:07 AM
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paulokes....nailed it on alcohol feeling like a NEED. maybe the therapist person saying alcoholics are being Greedy cuz we THINK we need it...but really we dont. alcohol for me is seeking pleasure. but dont all humans seek pleasure? Alcoholism is really difficult on me. every bad thing, every good thing...alcohol has them all.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by rahrah View Post
the two words addiction and greed should not be thought of synonymously.
Again - it's important to remember that this is only one person's opinion. It may very well be true for them, but not for you. You don't need to apply the concept to your life.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunny211 View Post
If we could have stopped we would have right? Who the heck wants to watch their life and relationships burn to the ground?? Who builds up a good life for themselves and then tears it down? Addicts do. Non addicts do not understand. It's not a matter of self control....it is an illness.
Very, very true.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:14 AM
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On a linguistic note

Greed is often associated with wanting more than your fair share of something...money, power, the cookies on the plate...
Examples of Greed

My need/desire for booze was a little more basic than that. I didn't really care how much anyone else drank I just needed it myself.

I became very selfish with it. Greed just isn't a word I personally would use because it doesn't seem to fit.

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Old 12-28-2016, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunny211 View Post
I wouldn't attend an addiction group led by someone who is not an addict.
I am feeling the same way....I haven't related to one thing this guy has said...I've actually felt quite speechless by some of the things he's said...it's absolutely obvious this person hasn't suffered addiction (and hes admitted hes not an addict) and I don't care how many books you read...one cannot know the soul stripping agony of addiction unless they've experienced it.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:34 AM
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Accept that many things he has read about, are wrong, or wrong in your case. Let these mistakes be a benefit to you as it makes you think about it, just don't let his lack of knowledge or certain books he has read or been taught upset you.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rahrah View Post
I am feeling the same way....I haven't related to one thing this guy has said...I've actually felt quite speechless by some of the things he's said...it's absolutely obvious this person hasn't suffered addiction (and hes admitted hes not an addict) and I don't care how many books you read...one cannot know the soul stripping agony of addiction unless they've experienced it.
I think if you truly disagree with everything this person says then a different group might be a good choice. It seems to cause you a lot of frustration and anger.

I also think though that it is always good to hear different opinions. Many therapists are excellent at treating people with diseases they do not have themselves. Just as medical doctors are quite capable of treating those with conditions that they've never had. Certainly someone who has been an addict will see things in a similar lens,but that's not always the best thing either, right? Sometimes we need an outside opinion.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:41 AM
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There are countless ways to conceptualize alcoholism. I tend to be a person who analyzes and thinks about things excessively - which isn't always bad - but trying to psychoanalyze my alcoholism and parse out why I drank never kept me sober.

When I went to my first AA meeting years ago I cried like a baby. Everything I heard from the big book and from others in the rooms made me realize I was in a place where I belonged.

I have come to believe that my alcoholism is caused by a spiritual illness - and the only thing that keeps me sober is working the 12 steps of AA.

Have a blessed day everyone
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:50 AM
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I went through several different outpatient groups, intensive and aftercare, and in my experience not all counselors "got it" in a way that resonated with me, in fact only a few did. They were mostly (all?) former addicts, but that by itself didn't make a lot of difference, particularly since many came from 12-step programs that are completely opposed to my world view. Being a former addict helps with empathy, I'm sure, but there are lots of other factors that ensure that even many former addicts will say things that will leave you speechless and scratching your head.

We've all heard it before, but we're free to take what we can use and leave the rest, from everyone.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:21 AM
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When I did my 4th step I learned that pretty much everything I did in life was motivated out of fear, much of it irrational in nature. And a lot of that fear manifested itself in greedy, selfish behavior. So while I don't think I poured alcohol down my throat because I was a greedy person, the result of pouring it down my throat caused me to act in a greedy manner at times. Greed was a symptom of my alcoholism, not the cause of it.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:52 AM
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I wanted MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.... but at the bottom of it ,this was because of my addictive thinking, which always told me that the next bit of MORE would make it all better. My recovery was about learning that this just ain't so, but when I'm rattled or triggered (maybe Hungry-AngryLonely-Tired ) that MORE MORE MORE voice tends to kick in again, and I work my program and make that decision not to listen to that lying S-O-B of an AV.

I suppose it might look like Greed to someone outside of that Alcoholic / Addictive thinking, but it runs a lot deeper than that. And recovery is certainly more complicated than not being greedy.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:10 AM
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my opinion
is that when someone shares their opinion and I find it offensive or it bothers me that there is probably some truth to it for me.
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