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Alcoholism -- Disease? -- or -- Sin? -- or -- Other?



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View Poll Results: Alcoholism is -- Disease? -- Sin? -- Other?
Disease?
58
41.43%
Sin?
5
3.57%
Other?
77
55.00%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

Alcoholism -- Disease? -- or -- Sin? -- or -- Other?

Old 12-05-2016, 06:13 PM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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I clicked other, but for a alcoholic/addict id see it as both
1956 AMA decided it was a disease im sure thats been discussed on this thread.
For me anything that separates me from "god" gets me off the beam is a sin. I sin alot even just sometimes my thoughts. I have worked the steps and know what alcohol will do to me. I might as well drink poison. TO knowingly hurt myself would be a sin. SO it is both in my opinion
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:08 AM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by damascus1986 View Post

TO knowingly hurt myself would be a sin.
I agree .
I have also hurt others with my drinking habits -- more sins added.

The key is for us to Repent and turn and repeat that sin no more.

Now stop your drinking or sinning or something worse may happen to you.

I've sure seen that one played out enough in my life.

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Old 12-06-2016, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
The first drink is not a rational choice, it is an insane decision. No logical sane thought could justify me picking up a drink.
These are precisely the kind of things that should be subjected to moral scrutiny. That is to say, those things which are dangerous, but to which logic and rational thinking are possibly ill suited.

Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
I detect a bit of a double standard here too. The medical profession, apparently, is quite likely to be wrong about its classification of alcoholism as a disease, supported by many years of research, yet it is almost a heresy to suggest the same folks might be wrong in their dispensing of medication to alcoholics.
I'm not sure what you were referring to here. I was speaking to the notion that there is something physiologically, medically different about alcoholics, irrespective of their drinking, which make the general population immune to addiction to alcohol, no matter how much they drink, or for how long.

I'm aware that a percentage of people are naturally immune to drinking too much, usually because even small amounts of alcohol cause them physiological discomfort, or because alcohol does not produce good feelings. These people are unlikely to become addicted, but the same phenomenon also exists for other drugs.

I don't believe there is a medical solution for alcohol addiction, although it's possible there may be some day. Hopefully, it won't be in form of alcohol replacement therapy, as has been the case with nicotine. That addiction-preserving "solution" doesn't exactly require a medical degree.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:49 PM
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i believe asians are less apt to become alcoholics or addicts something in their genes, but i agree everything has its limit. They might not do so well with crack cocaine. They also get the Asian flush where the blood rushes to the skin.

I would say some doctors have been wrong in their dispensing of medication some never seem to understand when i say im a addict and i do not want vicodin i mean it made the nurse put it on my chart haha.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Merigold View Post
Honestly. I don't want to be a "sin". I don't think I'm a bad person. Yes, it's true, sometimes i make selfish decisions.
really stuggling right now. Had a bottle of wine for lunch, despite having a lot of support here...maybe I am just scum?

No. I'm sureit isn't that.
Looking back through this thread, and far from attempting to tell you that you're wrong, I just want to mention that "sinning" and being a bad person are not synonymous at all. We are all human and we all sin, because sin is just missing the mark, falling short of perfect holiness.. none of us will ever be without sin, and that doesn't make as bad people.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:54 PM
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I will expand on that though... If you say alcoholism is sin and then you say everybody sins and that makes us human, are you providing justification for alcoholism?
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:30 AM
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Question: "Is getting drunk a sin?"

Answer: Getting drunk, tipsy, or even moderately affected by alcohol is clearly prohibited in the Bible (Proverbs 20:1; 23:20; 29–32; Isaiah 5:22; Ephesians 5:18). There are many commands in Scripture about behaviors to avoid, such as drunkenness, sexual immorality (1 Corinthians 6:18), and lying (Proverbs 6:16–17). But the Bible is far more than a definitive list of “sins.” When we approach it as such, we are missing the point. God does not want us to check off a list and consider everything else acceptable. The Pharisees did that, and Jesus was not pleased with them (Luke 11:42; Matthew 23:23). God desires obedience that arises from a loving heart that wants to be like Him (1 Peter 1:15).

Getting drunk is a sin, but what about drinking in moderation? Drinking alcohol has been the subject of debate within the church for centuries, but never more so than in recent years. With the shift toward postmodernism, practices that were once discouraged by the Christian community have been embraced and even promoted. The open consumption of alcohol is one of those practices. In Bible times, anyone set apart for God was to totally abstain from any fruit of the vine (Judges 13:4; Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Luke 1:15). Wine was often symbolic of worldly contamination, and those called into priestly service were to keep themselves from it. Such warnings have led many followers of Christ to forgo alcohol altogether, deeming any use of it unwise. Although drinking in moderation is not condemned in Scripture, there are many warnings about its destructive nature (Proverbs 20:1; 31:4). So why does the Bible speak so strongly against becoming affected by alcohol?

Ephesians 5:18 holds the key: “Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.” Two elements are being compared: alcohol and the Holy Spirit. Each has the power to take control of a person’s mind and behavior—with vastly different results. Getting drunk leads to a loss of self-control; being filled with the Spirit leads to more self-control (Galatians 5:22–23). We cannot be controlled by both alcoholic spirits and the Holy Spirit at the same time. When we choose to ingest mind-altering substances, we are effectively choosing to give ourselves over to the control of something other than the Holy Spirit. Anything that takes control of our mind, will, and emotions is a false god. Any master we obey other than the Lord is an idol, and idolatry is sin (1 Corinthians 10:14).

Getting drunk is a sin. Whether it be alcohol, drugs, or some other addictive behavior, Jesus said, “You cannot serve two masters” (Matthew 6:24). When we get drunk, or even slightly affected by alcohol or drugs, we are serving a master other than the Lord. Choosing to follow Jesus means choosing against our old sinful patterns and lifestyle. We cannot follow Jesus and also follow drunkenness, immorality, or worldly thinking (Galatians 2:20; Romans 6:1–6). They are going in opposite directions. First Corinthians 6:10 lists drunkards among those who “will not inherit the kingdom of God.” When we choose to be defined by our sin, we cannot also be a Christ-follower (Galatians 5:19–21). When we choose drunkenness in spite of God’s command against it, we are choosing disobedience and cannot, in that state, be in fellowship with a holy God who condemns it (Luke 14:26–27; Matthew 10:37–38).

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Recommended Resource: God Is for the Alcoholic by Bernard Palmer
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth View Post
I will expand on that though... If you say alcoholism is sin and then you say everybody sins and that makes us human, are you providing justification for alcoholism?
I call what happened to me a huge mistake on my part. I made a series of bad decisions without realizing where it was going. I probably should have known but I didn't until I was in deep. By that time it had damaged my brain and I was a huge mess. I think we have the ability to correct our mistakes so I wouldn't say calling is a sin or a mistake is justification. Being human is simply the reason why we screw up. We have the ability to learn from our mistakes and correct them. What I love about a recovery community is it gives me the chance to learn from the mistakes of others. I'm too old to go years trying to figure out how to fit drinking back into my life only to get myself in more trouble with alcohol. Many have tried before me and they have failed. Their mistakes have served as a lesson for me.
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:04 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob View Post
How things have changed a couple of hundred years ago and I think most people would have considered being a drunk sinful behavior today almost nobody does interesting are we smarter today?

M-Bob
Yes we are, much more in fact. Just as we don't believe that Sun revolves around the Earth, we now much more about how the brain functions than we did even 40 years ago.

We also have evidence based-research, rather than circumstantial, hearsay or subjective opinions, about how, when and where we are likely to see addiction.

Labelling alcoholics as bad people (behaviour certainly is) can't possibly be helpful. If we put out the idea that alcoholics are people who are prone to cheat and steal, the natural reaction of the alcoholic is to deny they are one.

With regards to Asians not being prone to alcoholism, all I can say, is anyone who says that has clearly never laid a foot in Korea. Alcoholism and abuse is a very present reality in that country, perhaps due to 40 years of Japanese colonialism, division of their country (in some cases families) and a devastating civil war.
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:51 PM
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Two books that come to mind regarding killing the EGO.

The AA Big Book and the Bible.
True -- lifetime process.

Ease
God
Out

M-Bob
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:21 PM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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AA Big Book

135:2
Here is a case in point: One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said that he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather (sinful) about these commodities, so she nagged, and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.

13:2
There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessly faced my (sins) and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch. I have not had a drink since.

61:2
Our actor is self-centered - ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the (sins) of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nomis
With regards to Asians not being prone to alcoholism, all I can say, is anyone who says that has clearly never laid a foot in Korea. Alcoholism and abuse is a very present reality in that country, perhaps due to 40 years of Japanese colonialism, division of their country (in some cases families) and a devastating civil war.
There is some evidence to suggest genetic mutations related to ethnicity play a part in addiction. The comment from the other poster about Asians and addiction is not completely unfounded, but it is by no means meant to be taken as a sweeping generalization. I've read about in various places. This article discusses it a little bit.
The quest for genes that influence alcohol abuse follows two paths. One goal is to locate genes that predispose a person to alcoholism. The other is to identify genes that help to prevent this from happening. Li and his coworkers have made important advances in this latter category. "We have identified two genes that protect against heavy drinking, and these are particularly prevalent among Asians," Li says. "We have shown that Native Americans, who have a high rate of alcoholism, do not have these protective genes. The one that is particularly effective is a mutation of the gene for the enzyme aldehyde dehydrogenase, which plays a major role in metabolizing alcohol. The mutation is found very frequently in Chinese and Japanese populations but is less common among other Asian groups, including Koreans, the Malayo-Polynesian group, and others native to the Pacific Rim. "We've also looked at Euro-Americans, Native Americans, and Eskimos, and they don't have that gene mutation," says Li. Thus, incidentally, the study of genetic mutations and alcoholism links native North-American populations to central Asian ancestors, not to those from China and Japan.
Again, doesn't really mean a lot in the scheme of things, because anyone who drinks or uses can potentially find themselves addicted, but it's still interesting stuff.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
There is some evidence to suggest genetic mutations related to ethnicity play a part in addiction. The comment from the other poster about Asians and addiction is not completely unfounded, but it is by no means meant to be taken as a sweeping generalization. I've read about in various places. This article discusses it a little bit.


Again, doesn't really mean a lot in the scheme of things, because anyone who drinks or uses can potentially find themselves addicted, but it's still interesting stuff.


i definitely did not mean all asians the article sounds interesting I had heard native Americans were more apt to becoming alcoholics but never had experienced it first hand like i had with the Asians i know ( who are mostly Chinese decent). I have never been to korea did not know they didn't get that gene.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob View Post
Two books that come to mind regarding killing the EGO.

The AA Big Book and the Bible.
True -- lifetime process.

Ease
God
Out

M-Bob
The Tao Te Ching has some beautiful verses about the ego
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:32 PM
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Other!

It is NOT a disease.

Sin? No religion, politics. 😉
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:48 PM
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Addiction with the neuro changes inate to the drug, and habit. For me, really bad habits developed over time, I had to feed addiction, then change habits to fit need to feed. At a young age we ignored "nerds" who were living their lives sober, created lives based on habitual partying, then more lonely drinking, seldom challenging myself to have a sober night, EVER.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:43 PM
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Felt like a cheat when I was heavily drinking. Cheating family, friends, employer, self, etc etc. .

Just to name a few.
Unmoral, sinful and addicted.

M-Bob
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
I'm really not a fan of labels. There is something inherent to my being that makes it impossible for me to drink without negative consequences. I have accepted that and I have started living a lifestyle that allows me to be free of alcohol. I prefer to not have it be more complicated than that.
This
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:56 AM
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If interested -- the Christian view.

Ask Pasto John.

Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

https://youtu.be/oXYk6Hz0OfU


at 5 min 45 sec he mentions Teen Challenge (a great recovery Program)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++

This preacher is way more hard core.

Perry Stone - Christians and Drunkenness / Drinking and Intoxication Must Watch!

https://youtu.be/TlPt0AdqAdw
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Old 12-09-2016, 07:03 AM
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You mean, the view of a particular Christian.
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