MissPerfumado

The conventional wisdom is to wait a year before getting into a new relationship. As luck would have it, I'll be a year sober in a couple of weeks (yay me) and I have a date lined up, on the one-year anniversary. I didn't plan it ... it just turned out that way.

I'm hesitant about it all. I don't want to jeopardise my sobriety and I have some concerns about it.

I know SR folks are incredibly non-judgmental so I hope you will all continue to be non-judgmental about what I'm going to say.

The main reason I have concerns about dating again is that my relationships tend to be complicated. For the last two decades, I have explored alternative relationship styles. I am a straight, single woman, but to put it simply, I don't believe I am monogamous and am not seeking a monogamous relationship with a monogamous partner. (I must stress that I don't believe monogamy is right for me, and I certainly understand most people choose it and are very happy with that choice.)

I have my reasons for pursuing this, grounded in my philosophical beliefs.

In the past, however, as my drinking got worse and worse, my relationships became chaotic. Non-monogamous relationships are complicated, at the best of times. Throw drinking in the mix and it's a s##t show.

I still have the same basic philosophical beliefs that led me to what I guess you could call an "alternative lifestyle", but I don't want to get into the same complications that arose when I was drinking. I hope with better, sober communication, I can avoid the complications.

I don't know. Part of me is also scared that I am acting out addictive behaviour or avoiding intimacy, without admitting to myself that that's what is really going on, and that I am risking my sobriety pursuing this.

I suppose I am looking for some views and input, maybe so I can explore this issue here and figure out if this is really going to be a risk to my sobriety.

Finally, if you don't agree with my choices/beliefs and wish to express that, I'm ok with that but would just ask for any such expression of disagreement to be respectful.

Ariesagain

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

But it's just a date, right? Not a commitment, not even a commitment to not be committed.

I think we fear this so much because we are poor at defining and protecting our needs and often blur with others too much looking for approval. So maybe defining the date in very specific terms would help? Think lunch?

You don't have to do anything you don't want to.

MissPerfumado

Thanks Ariesagain.

Actually, the parameters for the date have already been set. I know the person and have been attracted to him for some time - I just didn't realise he would be open to starting something because I thought he was conventionally attached. Turns out he is attached, but open to something, and crucially that is part of his relationship dynamic.

It's not the physical intimacy that concerns me but the emotional intimacy. The emotional generally follows the physical and is difficult to regulate.

This choice of relationship is about honesty, communication and maturity. It takes a lot of self-regulation and is not easy, but can be very rewarding. For a long time I have had a vision of maintaining that certain lifestyle which I have only ever attained for short periods of time. I wonder if I can attain it with sobriety. I wonder if I am up to it.

tomsteve

good on ya for a year and another 1st in sobriety for ya- a date!

the one thing that caught my attention was this:
"Part of me is also scared that I am acting out addictive behaviour or avoiding intimacy, without admitting to myself that that's what is really going on, and that I am risking my sobriety pursuing this. "

just my opinion but it seems the intimacy thing is a problem- possibly either one or more past events coming into play that weren't very positive experiences- past feelings/emotions come to surface which have come up before and instead of learning the whys of them ya drank and stuffed it?
the good news is this date will only be a risk if you allow it to be- only you can get alcohol into your body.
when I got sober I had a jillion and one feelings/emotions/past experiences I had to address and learn causes and conditions. until I did that, every time those feeling/emotions/ past experiences would pop up, id want a drink. drinking was how I (thought) I stopped that crap going on in my melon, but in reality it didn't. it only delayed it.
then there was learning to BE. I learned to BE by living. by going through life experiences I had only done drunk.
lots of bumps along the road, but that's how ive learned

entropy1964

Hmmm. I was going to say 'hey don't future trip. Its just a date'. But its sex with a man who is in a (open, I guess?) relationship. Can you walk before you run?

You seem to have a lot of questions and they are based on past experience. You are concerned that keeping the relationship just about sex has been tough, for you or for the other partner? You are concerned that you are dodging intimacy and have come up with a really creative way of doing so?

I dunno. This sounds toxic to me but that is of course based on my past experience and my values around relationships. I don't judge what you do at all. But if you aren't completely solid in how this works I'd slow down.

tomsteve

after a couple years sober I got into a relationship(dating?) with a wonderful woman. it wasn't "normal" for me to be in a relationship with a woman that never had a drinking or drug problem, had her priorites straight and had a very loving heart. it was reeeeallly weird and I was rather lost. I talked to a good friend about it.
he said,"knowing what I know of ya,tom, you've been learning in other areas of your life how to adult. now it just sounds like ya have to learn how to adult in a relationship- ya have to learn how to accept love without letting what happened in past relationships control your actions today. just BE through the feelings. what you've said to me about her, shes quite better at adulting than you, so you might want to open up some and let her know whats going on with ya- that communication thing that is part of adulting. and one more thing- lifes a journey-slow down. youre dating."

not exactly worded like that, but apropos.

Ariesagain

Does his partner know they have an open relationship?

Child of the 70's here...I heard that "open marriage" line a LOT and it was pretty consistent that in fact he was in an open marriage and she knew nothing about it.

Drama avoidance is our friend...

August252015

Good input here.

The one thing I will respond to in your post is the comment about someone else jeopardizing your sobriety. You are the only one who controls that; you have done that for a year!!! I bet there are situations and challenges you have handled sober in that time, right?

I see the need for caution and perhaps....not dating yet. Or just slowing the spinning of your mind, with whatever tools you use when that happens (again, I bet you've used them in other situations in your sobriety, right?) - mine are ones I have learned from AA. I won't go into my relationship situation or why I chose to start a relationship at four plus months sober with someone with just over a month - and instead will just say that it is program based and individual recovery based, and there is complete trust. Emphasis on that last word because it appears that trust in a situation (to be as you define it, and do it sober) is perhaps a fear for you.

You control your choices- for me, that means when I make good ones (not drinking, putting myself in good situations including relationships with friends AND love, etc) I get good results.

Good luck.

Mountainmanbob

Well as we all know (I think) it is more complicated when dating different people at the same time, unless we are keeping sex out of the mix. Throw sex into these multiple dating situations and drama it seems in time comes rolling along.

There is that key thing for the wanting to stay sober one to avoid (drama). I pretty much live drama free today but, still remember a few times when I was heavily dating two or more Ladies at the same time. Feelings got hurt and a few hearts were broken. I still feel bad about that.

One good fact is -- if you stay sober while doing this the results will be much better than while drinking or using.

#1 -- one must stay sober.
If thus is ever threatened -- flee.

Good luck,
M-Bob

MissPerfumado

Well, lots of good questions from people. This thread has been great for getting me to think through the issues.

First thing that comes to mind is that it's not so much the emotional intimacy I fear, because I do want that. The physical act of sex is terrible without it. I have had a few good situations where everything has been lovely for a few months - good levels of physical chemistry and emotional closeness.

The second thought is that the closeness that I do fear is what I think of as the invasion into my life - the sanctity of my own space, my choices of how I want to live, how I spend my money, where and when I wish to travel, the plans I make for my future etc. The thought of losing my independence makes me want to run for the hills.

So when I have something that is working, what I fear is the part of me that suddenly wants to make what is a beautiful, fun, joyful, passionate arrangement an exclusive and long term relationship. It's irrational because that tendency to try to "close" around the relationship is not what I want, if I were to think logically. And it ruins a perfectly good arrangement.

I agree that inviting sex into the mix will cause drama. But to be blunt, that's what this whole idea is for. Just dating in the ordinary way and getting onto the "relationship escalator", testing out the guy, wondering if he'd make a good life partner etc. etc. is not what this is about.

My ideal, really, is to have the great single life I have right now but with the excitement of a good partner or more. I just seem to be my own worst enemy in kiboshing that when it becomes a distinct possibility.

And as for my sobriety, August, you're absolutely right. That's within my own control.

I'm still not 100% clear on all of it and still thinking about it but I think that's not a bad thing. I suppose if I am going to continue to attempt a not too conventional approach to relationships then it doesn't hurt to keep contemplating upon it.

From that perspective, all of your points of view are welcome. I may not agree with some of the positions, particularly where I feel I have already internally rejected the social conditioning / restriction that comes with it. But I appreciate the input.

I will still go on the date though. For sure.

August252015

TOTALLY understand this (and very well said). I am a quote hound and the bf and I shared iCloud albums under different topics- one of them is "apropos" and it is things (*just*) about me. I found a quote the other day that was perfect- "I like being alone. I have control over my own sh*t. Therefore, in order to win me over, your presence has to feel better than my solitude. You're not competing with another person, you're competing with my comfort zones."

I love my life now- and I am trying to build something that includes him in it. Working out those "our" boundaries is sometimes tough and personally, I have to be in a relationship where I believe it is worth it. There is too much at stake for me to play, and "learning to share" in terms of building the "us" is sometimes scary!

See how I mentioned the iCloud photo sharing? That's just a teeny example of how intertwined our lives - money, time, responsibilities, you name it- are becoming. It's working for us but sometimes I pull away (much more than he ever does- it's my inclination, not his) and he must understand and respect that, and it's somewhat of a dance .... bottom line, I think it is very important that you (any of us dealing with sobriety, in particular vs "others"!) are aware of this as you consider letting someone in.

Sounds like you are aware of what you want.....and its challenges.....we call our situation a "working fairytale" (one reason being that we dated in high school- who gets a chance 25 years later? And are both in recovery, have the same values, like each other again.....??) bc while it is not "hard," exactly, it is effort on top of the love, as we do build together. Maybe you will find that one of the benefits of "open" relationships is that different people can bring different things to you.

Good luck

Aellyce

I am a polyamorous person by default, it has always been and remains to be my basic preference when it comes to romantic relationships, drinking or not; also bisexual. I intensely despise what I personally call as "cheating": engaging in multiple relationships and not being open and straightforward about it with the partner(s). Yes, relationships like this are always complex, but not necessarily complicated, in my experience, if all partners have the same philosophy or at least are able to accept someone else's needs and make a compromise without suffering from it.

At the same time, I do not reject monogamy at all when it comes from mutual desire and need in a relationship naturally. What I dislike, and refuse in my life, is people demanding it from each-other in a one-sided way. To me personally, that equals to wanting to own another person and this is something I have never been willing to accept and never practiced myself. In spite of all this though, if I look back on my life, some of the most satisfying relationship phases were periods when my partner and I engaged with each-other exclusively - not because it is a social norm or driven by insecurities, but because that's what we both wanted and needed at the time. But I have never had a long-term relationship (meaning years) that remained in that state at all times and I don't actually want it to be that way. I personally very much like to experience the natural dynamic of relationships even if it's challenging and difficult at times. All of the above of course requires that I find partners who have compatible views to mine - something I tend to actively look for.

A got into a new relationship like this when I was a bit less than a year sober (with someone I knew for years prior) and we got married about 8 months later. My first marriage, his second. I had a relapse (~2 months) later, which was quite a shock to my partner, but my husband was very supportive and thankfully the relapse was behind us relatively soon. My husband is also bi and a curious person who loves to explore, we are a good fit that way.

I spent a lot of time investigating this whole phenomenon though... Is it genuinely being open-minded and free spirited, or is it driven by avoidant features that often dismisses expectations and the feelings of others? Long story, won't get into details, but my conclusion is that it's most likely the combination of both. The thing though is that it's working in my life, and I feel satisfied and do not disrespect my partner. I also don't feel that it is intimacy I avoid in my close, compatible relationships... not the feedback I tend to be given by partners either. So I don't see a reason why to question it more or try to change it to force myself into a mold that is not me.

One thing about the polyamorous relationships though is that sometimes they can become a bit like constant negotiation and plotting (assuming that the partners discuss what's going on)... I've heard some people being repulsed by that aspect, they feel like it's constant analysis and revision instead of living in a relaxed way. Another challenging element is the hierarchy that is most often present in the relationship involving multiple participants. I think most often people choose one close, primary partner and the others are more causal explorations - this is how it currently works for me as well.

BrendaChenowyth

For me, the hard thing about exploring non-monogamy with my last partner, and why it didn't work, was the lack of predictability and trust. There were no boundaries and I never knew where I stood or if he would decide to move on.

So I'm supposed to work tonight. My client has to go to hospital and I get the night off. Or I come down with the flu and I call out. I call my boyfriend to make plans, or to see if he would come and help me since I'm sick. I shouldn't have to do it in advance, he is my boyfriend, he should be in a position where he can at least consider coming over, unless he has plans with his boys or is working and he has to go see his mom lol.. But I call him and he says he can't because he has a date. He has plans to have sex with somebody else tonight. I should be okay with this because we established that this was okay, but he's my number one and I'm stressed or I'm not feeling good and I just want to Netflix and chill with someone. Now I am alone and he is having a blast without me. I am going to inevitably have mixed up feelings about this. Maybe I dwell on it and end up drinking to try to go to sleep eventually. I mean, I'm sick, so it's not as if I'm going out to have my own fun! And in the mean time, maybe he really hits it off with the other woman and going forward feels far more motivated to spend time with her. There's no way for me to know and I have an addictive personality so I'm stuck on trying to figure this out.

Boy, what a headache! What a potential disaster for an addict in recovery!

In my real life relationship, we went to a lifestyle club and what started out with a dance with another couple ended with me in the hospital with alcohol poisoning.

I wouldn't in the future try this again because I know the complicated nature of it led me down the road to drinking.

BrendaChenowyth

I know you say this is the kind of relationship you prefer, but you also admit it is complicated. That means it will always cause tension in your life. That will always be a potential trigger. Just like if i stay in a job that causes me stress and has led me to drink before, it will always be a trigger. I need a new job for my health and well being.

My plans to get in to a relationship in the future include joining a church and making female friends there. Someone will eventually introduce me to their amazing single brother, son, grandson, nephew or cousin. He just hasn't found the right girl yet, like I haven't found the right guy yet. And we'll date and maybe I find out we're not compatible. No hard feelings because I didn't initiate sexual intimacy before knowing whether we were compatible or not, and I've stayed sober and kept a level head and I'm still buddies with all his female relatives, so all the more motivation to split on amicable terms. lol None of this meeting in a dark club or on a lifestyle dating site and wondering if we can ever tell our families where we met.

Sorry, just rambling.

Aellyce

I think it can be done without losing independence and personal time/space. My husband and I maintain separate finances, we have our own rooms in our home where we both can retreat solo (including sleeping), and we travel a lot independently both on business and for pleasure. I just recently took a two-week vacation on my own and he joined together with a friend of his for a weekend. One could perhaps say, this is more like dating than a marriage... but I don't think so. It still allows building a home and life together and can provide the spontaneous moments of intimacy that are hard to experience in a dating relationship, IMO. Having kids would make this more complicated but we don't, so it's just a lifestyle choice made by and for two adults.

I had a relationship in the past with another alcoholic that was structured and managed similarly, but in the end we destroyed it with our primary preference for drinking. So experiencing it now with another person and without the alcohol is very rewarding. There are many challenges though that surface now without the numbing effect of the booze and with trying to make efforts to maintain boundaries that are compatible with this relationship, it is far from trivial and as I said before, have to be flexible enough to accommodate the constantly changing and evolving dynamic. I don't think it's possible to manage if people keep rigid boundaries and expect a very high level of consistency and predictability. Ironically though, in spite of the lack of apparent consistency, I feel that this is probably my first long-term relationship with truly secure attachment, ever. The trust and communication is consistent though, and I think that's what matters the most.

I have a naturally intense need for intimacy and interaction. When I was younger though (while drinking alcoholically and before), I used boundaries mostly to protect my insecurities and to keep people at arm's length. Easy to predict what this led to: fluctuations of a chronically dismissive-avoidant style and desire for intense communication and closeness, constant cycles of push-and-pull. Not hard to see how this can drive many people crazy, including the person experiencing these seemingly opposite currents from within. My therapist recently pointed out that there is a big difference between boundaries and erecting walls around oneself but easy to confuse the two - I think that was a great insight. So what I am personally trying to do these days with my partner is exploring using compatible boundaries and welcoming the vulnerabilities coming with it. As I said, it is often a very challenging but also interesting and fulfilling expedition. Definitely not compatible with an addiction-packed lifestyle.

entropy1964

My plans to get in to a relationship in the future include joining a church and making female friends there. Someone will eventually introduce me to their amazing single brother, son, grandson, nephew or cousin. He just hasn't found the right girl yet, like I haven't found the right guy yet. And we'll date and maybe I find out we're not compatible. No hard feelings because I didn't initiate sexual intimacy before knowing whether we were compatible or not, and I've stayed sober and kept a level head and I'm still buddies with all his female relatives, so all the more motivation to split on amicable terms. lol None of this meeting in a dark club or on a lifestyle dating site and wondering if we can ever tell our families where we met.


OR go to church to broaden your spiritual life, learn more about yourself and your connection to God. Live in the moment, limit expectations, judgments and comparisons. Make friends organically, because you care about them, not because you expect something from them. Let life happen to you because you seem like an amazing person with a good intellect. And if you were completely joking it wasn't totally obvious to me so I just wanted to interject that the paragraph was a bit, um, scary

entropy1964

Miss P you just do whatever you need to do. Its too much for my brain to process....but then, most things are right now! I have had so much drama and bs in my life that if anything even has a whiff of drama or chaos...I'm out, gone, see ya. I can't even imagine or fantasize about a relationship or sex or whatever. My brain simply won't go there. Truly a first.

One thing I know is when I take pause, get quiet and really listen to my inner voice (call her my Wise Woman) I generally find the answer. If it isn't forthcoming, I continue to take pause. Well, that's what I've been doing and I hope to keep doing. Good luck.

BrendaChenowyth

I am trying not to feel angry because I know that I didn't give you enough information.

You did not have enough information to decide whether or not I was committed to the spiritual side of things. I love God, read my Bible, pray, depend on Him, and try to love my brothers and sisters. I have chosen Catholicism for many reasons. I have touched on them in other threads. This thread didn't include those details because they weren't pertinent to the topic of dating and finding a mate.

This is my VISION. Because without a clear vision, both of what I want, and how I will set about finding it, I will wander aimlessly and never find it.

When I say I want to join the church, I want to join the church. Period.

When I say I want to befriend women in the church, I mean I want to befriend women in the church. Period.

When I say that I envision down the road meeting my future husband IN AN ORGANIC WAY, as you said, then that is what I mean, and that is what will happen because I say it will happen. Period.

Be scared of JUST living in the moment without a vision for the future. That's not how I'm living. You didn't have that information about me.

BrendaChenowyth

Was too much of a thread hijack, deleted...

ScottFromWI

I think this is probably the biggest concern you should have, regardless of the nature of the relationship itself. Lots of folks have brought up many concerns about the potential relationship itself too.

You yourself have brought up many red flags of your own and it seems to me that honestly there are just too many possible things that could go wrong and jeapordize your sobriety.

I think the main thing I'd want to clear out front right away is to talk with the person this potential mate is already "attached" to - and find out if he or she is OK with it in the first place. If not, you and he could both be in for a very rude awakening.