Dating after 1 year of sobriety - fearful of complications
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 5,700
Ordinarily I would not respond to this thread because since my college days in the 1970's I've had absolutely no experience with anything but a monogamist relationship. That's how me and my wife choose to live and no value judgments are implied. I only mention it to highlight my lack of experience with this.
What prompted me to write was because I interact with you in another thread and something you wrote up thread I think is vitally important and want to emphasize, specifically honesty and communication. Regardless of the particulars of one's relationship(s), those are paramount issues and as long as they are a part of the equation then the odds of a happy co-existence between all parties increases dramatically.
I hope you find happiness.
What prompted me to write was because I interact with you in another thread and something you wrote up thread I think is vitally important and want to emphasize, specifically honesty and communication. Regardless of the particulars of one's relationship(s), those are paramount issues and as long as they are a part of the equation then the odds of a happy co-existence between all parties increases dramatically.
I hope you find happiness.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth 
Just from my foray in to the world of open relationships.. it seems to me that communication of specific expectations is precisely what being in an open relationships seeks to avoid.
I want to find out, more for myself, why some people think it's better to live without codes of conduct, in general. Because I think that's become the prevailing mindset. If we never really assign right and wrong, how do we know if we're doing right or doing wrong? I mean, the answer is we don't. If one thing is open to interpretation, and my doing it or not doing it means nothing, then I can justify any behavior the same way. Where am I heading with this? I'll give you three guesses, but you might only need one.
I want to find out, more for myself, why some people think it's better to live without codes of conduct, in general. Because I think that's become the prevailing mindset. If we never really assign right and wrong, how do we know if we're doing right or doing wrong? I mean, the answer is we don't. If one thing is open to interpretation, and my doing it or not doing it means nothing, then I can justify any behavior the same way. Where am I heading with this? I'll give you three guesses, but you might only need one.
I also don't think that such an open constellation can be maintained and enjoyed well without codes of conduct and rules, quite the opposite. For me, one of the most important rules is the actual transparency and not hiding things from partners. Another one is practicing safety and responsibility as much as possible when it comes to the sexual components. I would be disturbed and disappointed knowing that my trusted partner(s) betrayed these expectations.
In my experience, open relationships that are close, intimate connections and not merely causal, superficial affairs actually come with more defined and outspoken expectations given that the construct requires a high level of trust and honesty. But the expectations are different. I think it's often easier to do things in secret and avoid taking responsibility for the acts towards partners.
It is a very good and important question though whether a desire to pursue open relationships comes from a similar need that fuels addictive tendencies / personal insecurities or something else that is healthier and can be carefully managed and executed.
Okay I think I've probably posted enough of my views now and it's perhaps starting to sound a bit defensive, so I will stop. Just the topic is something I have always been very interested in and passionate about
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
Well it can be done respectfully and seamlessly, in theory, I feel sure that it can be done. Complications in relationships arise from what? OP says there have been complications in her relationships before. Why do they exist? I believe that communication can either prevent or repair any complication. So if we have open lines of communication and assurance that they work, we are able to work through problems so readily that we rarely have them long enough for them to evolve in to something that we would be here discussing, much less for them to become a trigger for relapse in to addictive habits.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
Great thread, a lot of food for thought.
But I do have one question that I think nobody has asked, first let me congratulate you on your upcoming one-year. My question is, what kind of work have you done in in this past year to stay sober?
Hugs and prayers
TB
But I do have one question that I think nobody has asked, first let me congratulate you on your upcoming one-year. My question is, what kind of work have you done in in this past year to stay sober?
Hugs and prayers
TB
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
Originally Posted by tomsteve
one thing i learned through years of error is a relationship built on sex first is the beginning of the end of a relationship.
We live in a society that encourages us to explore sex as a natural form of expression.. But an expression of what? We can't use the sex urge as the thing being expressed, the sex urge is the motivation to have sex. It's the means to the end, but what is the end? It's not always babies.
So I think that's where it gets complicated, because there's nothing inherently complicated about the act of sex. I think often we go, "Yeah, I want sex", and so you get sex and you have things that you weren't ready to contend with.. But if love and trust can go first, you could even talk about sex before having it - what a concept - and there'd be no surprises.
Not directed at anyone, just discussing ideas here.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
But if love and trust can go first, you could even talk about sex before having it - what a concept - and there'd be no surprises.
And it sure cuts down on the broken hearts.
Every time that we have sex we give a little of our heart away.
No reason to spread my heart all over town.
Been there done that, got the T-shirt.
A shirt that eventfully had a lot of holes in it.
M-Bob
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
Once again, thank you for the views expressed. People have been very tolerant and polite which makes me relieved because I find this a difficult topic to raise IRL for fear of being negatively judged. Even on this forum I feel very vulnerable raising it.
The honesty thing is niggling at me. A couple of people have picked up on whether this is truly an open relationship and I have to say I don't know for sure. I am going on what I was told - but I can't be 100% sure as I have not spoken to his wife. So that is one thing that is a proper red flag, and on reflection I agree that if I want to pursue this while truly living the values of honesty and communication, then that has to be explored before this goes further.
The other thing I would say is that I am acutely aware that sex is rarely ever just sex. It does often lead to intense emotions. The ability to recognise those emotions and communicate or express them appropriately is a huge challenge. Then there is the incredible personal vulnerability involved in the physical act of sex. It can turbo-charge the trust, if done in a mature way. One has to let one's guard down, express very intimate and personal things about oneself - talk about things that we are all conditioned not to talk about with people whom we aren't in a "loving" established relationship with. In combination, the emotional and physical intensity can lead to either a recipe for disaster or a unique channel for individual growth.
So I disagree that sex is an end in itself. And I disagree that a relationship built on sex is the beginning of the end. And I disagree that there is nothing inherently complicated about the act of sex itself.
I really just had to say that.
I want to thank people again for being so very tolerant and courteous on this thread. I don't feel inclined to add a whole lot more. A lot of very insightful observations have been made and I continue to chew the cud on it all.
The honesty thing is niggling at me. A couple of people have picked up on whether this is truly an open relationship and I have to say I don't know for sure. I am going on what I was told - but I can't be 100% sure as I have not spoken to his wife. So that is one thing that is a proper red flag, and on reflection I agree that if I want to pursue this while truly living the values of honesty and communication, then that has to be explored before this goes further.
The other thing I would say is that I am acutely aware that sex is rarely ever just sex. It does often lead to intense emotions. The ability to recognise those emotions and communicate or express them appropriately is a huge challenge. Then there is the incredible personal vulnerability involved in the physical act of sex. It can turbo-charge the trust, if done in a mature way. One has to let one's guard down, express very intimate and personal things about oneself - talk about things that we are all conditioned not to talk about with people whom we aren't in a "loving" established relationship with. In combination, the emotional and physical intensity can lead to either a recipe for disaster or a unique channel for individual growth.
So I disagree that sex is an end in itself. And I disagree that a relationship built on sex is the beginning of the end. And I disagree that there is nothing inherently complicated about the act of sex itself.
I really just had to say that.
I want to thank people again for being so very tolerant and courteous on this thread. I don't feel inclined to add a whole lot more. A lot of very insightful observations have been made and I continue to chew the cud on it all.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
The honesty thing is niggling at me. A couple of people have picked up on whether this is truly an open relationship and I have to say I don't know for sure. I am going on what I was told - but I can't be 100% sure as I have not spoken to his wife.
Yes, that was a big question mark for me. And now you're saying he's married. Sooo if I were the wife in this one I'd want some control. I'd want to know who you are. I'd tread very carefully. Breaking up a marriage is a huge cross to bear...and if there are kids? Yikes.
It doesn't sound like you've been married before, I could be wrong, but that's my impression. Just be very careful. From your OP it sounded like you wanted an intimate friendship with someone. You fear the loss of control you perceive a committed relationship entails. So it sounds like you want something very much on your terms....and frankly you'll find that, at least for a short period of time...as you've said, it gets complicated, can't withstand the terms and ends.
Find someone who isn't married ok? Unless you know both parties and the wife is saying 'Sure, he's all yours'.
Yes, that was a big question mark for me. And now you're saying he's married. Sooo if I were the wife in this one I'd want some control. I'd want to know who you are. I'd tread very carefully. Breaking up a marriage is a huge cross to bear...and if there are kids? Yikes.
It doesn't sound like you've been married before, I could be wrong, but that's my impression. Just be very careful. From your OP it sounded like you wanted an intimate friendship with someone. You fear the loss of control you perceive a committed relationship entails. So it sounds like you want something very much on your terms....and frankly you'll find that, at least for a short period of time...as you've said, it gets complicated, can't withstand the terms and ends.
Find someone who isn't married ok? Unless you know both parties and the wife is saying 'Sure, he's all yours'.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Relationships don't prevent people from staying sober. People get sober in good relationships, bad relationships and no relationships.
The risks are in motives. Selfish instinct driven motives are pretty good indicators of untreated alcoholism, and untreated alcoholism will eventually lead to a drink. Or, stepping out of my experience here, could besomething to do with sex and love addiction for which there are also 12 step fellowships.
The great risk in an unfaithful(for want of a better word) relationship is the intruder always gets hurt.
On the positive side I suppose an open relationship with multiple partners might prevent one from becoming overly dependent on a single human being, which can be another risk when the person proves fallible and lets one down.
I always wanted to be polyamorous, but I couldn't find a parrot that liked me enough. My aunty told me her husband once had sex with a parrot, and the offspring can now be seen working in the local social welfare department. Apparently she can be recognised by her colorful plumage.
The risks are in motives. Selfish instinct driven motives are pretty good indicators of untreated alcoholism, and untreated alcoholism will eventually lead to a drink. Or, stepping out of my experience here, could besomething to do with sex and love addiction for which there are also 12 step fellowships.
The great risk in an unfaithful(for want of a better word) relationship is the intruder always gets hurt.
On the positive side I suppose an open relationship with multiple partners might prevent one from becoming overly dependent on a single human being, which can be another risk when the person proves fallible and lets one down.
I always wanted to be polyamorous, but I couldn't find a parrot that liked me enough. My aunty told me her husband once had sex with a parrot, and the offspring can now be seen working in the local social welfare department. Apparently she can be recognised by her colorful plumage.
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
There is nothing inherently complicated about sex, when I say that I mean, if you're talking about two people enjoyin' sex and you leave out all other factors, ain't nothin' wrong! Until you add all the other factors! Like the fact someone has a wife..
I had an emotional affair with a married man and thought I was fine because we weren't making out or having sex or holding hands. In a Christian marriage, such as theirs, infidelity includes many behaviors other than the act of sex. I just watched a Wretched video on this, he named 9 things, including sex, that the Bible would consider infidelity in marriage. You might not believe in the Bible, but it has a lot of sound wisdom, and if someone got married in a church...
My best buddy gave me this little jewel of information!
there is this thing called "alienation of affection" that is often the cited cause in the dissolution of a marriage.. Guess what, divorces are expensive. I cause a divorce by actively pursuing a husband and that can be substantiated, and the wife with medical issues now has no insurance, no job, and no way to pay for her own medical bills, let alone the divorce, then she comes after me. She sues me for "alienation of affection", I destroyed her marriage. Now I lose my reputation and a lot of money to boot.
I had an emotional affair with a married man and thought I was fine because we weren't making out or having sex or holding hands. In a Christian marriage, such as theirs, infidelity includes many behaviors other than the act of sex. I just watched a Wretched video on this, he named 9 things, including sex, that the Bible would consider infidelity in marriage. You might not believe in the Bible, but it has a lot of sound wisdom, and if someone got married in a church...
My best buddy gave me this little jewel of information!
there is this thing called "alienation of affection" that is often the cited cause in the dissolution of a marriage.. Guess what, divorces are expensive. I cause a divorce by actively pursuing a husband and that can be substantiated, and the wife with medical issues now has no insurance, no job, and no way to pay for her own medical bills, let alone the divorce, then she comes after me. She sues me for "alienation of affection", I destroyed her marriage. Now I lose my reputation and a lot of money to boot.
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