Famous/Successful People who were raging alcoholics
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
Originally Posted by steve-in-kville 
I have noticed a sharp increase in my creativity since being sober. Especially when it comes to building our flower/veggie garden and landscaping.
I sorta scared myself!
I sorta scared myself!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,614
I think you expressed it quite well Steely.
Personally, I think there is a lot of difference between the "creative" thinking it takes to overcome life adversity and the creativity it takes to make art. I have done both. I believe you have as well. As for me, they are two distinctly different things. One is survival, pragmatic- and one is my safe haven, the place I went when things were unbearable- purely inventive, a relief and sometimes even a joy, validating and reclaiming of self.
I don't believe the artistic kind of creativity is a thing accessible to all. Even within the art world there are those head and shoulders above the rest.
As for there being any special kinds of drunk... well there are plenty of folks who believe there is such a thing and it isn't just artists. There have been many threads here of the "I know I am smart, I graduated top of my class, I have distinctions"... "But I am recognized in my field so I can't be like those other drunks"... "I have always been at the top of my field and made plenty of money"... variety.
It's just a people thing not an artist thing.
And I'm stickin' to my guns on the disproportion of narcissists in the fields of business and law than creative arts. It has long been known that certain careers attract more narcissists than others.
Personally, I think there is a lot of difference between the "creative" thinking it takes to overcome life adversity and the creativity it takes to make art. I have done both. I believe you have as well. As for me, they are two distinctly different things. One is survival, pragmatic- and one is my safe haven, the place I went when things were unbearable- purely inventive, a relief and sometimes even a joy, validating and reclaiming of self.
I don't believe the artistic kind of creativity is a thing accessible to all. Even within the art world there are those head and shoulders above the rest.
As for there being any special kinds of drunk... well there are plenty of folks who believe there is such a thing and it isn't just artists. There have been many threads here of the "I know I am smart, I graduated top of my class, I have distinctions"... "But I am recognized in my field so I can't be like those other drunks"... "I have always been at the top of my field and made plenty of money"... variety.
It's just a people thing not an artist thing.
And I'm stickin' to my guns on the disproportion of narcissists in the fields of business and law than creative arts. It has long been known that certain careers attract more narcissists than others.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,584
Thanks sleepie, and I do concur with narcissism being largely the domain of the snakes in suits. Maybe my brother is in there too! 
Grrrr!
I do take your point sleepie, and agree in so many ways. The subject matter is huge and as we are Oceans apart difficult to convey thoughts and ideas in the manner we might like. And besides I'd have to reread Marx, and I'm a Revisionist, by the way. Haha
And my head is a mess. A manageable mess.
It becomes interesting intellectualism in the end but true sleepie, I do dig the difference between Auguste Rodin and the boilermaker.
Glad to see you painting again, as my own poetry lies in the mud. I'm expecting for this to change and am getting a few ideas. Just have to pull it together.
More important for me (now) to concentrate on not drinking, it's as much as I can do and bear.
Grrrr! I do take your point sleepie, and agree in so many ways. The subject matter is huge and as we are Oceans apart difficult to convey thoughts and ideas in the manner we might like. And besides I'd have to reread Marx, and I'm a Revisionist, by the way. Haha
And my head is a mess. A manageable mess.
It becomes interesting intellectualism in the end but true sleepie, I do dig the difference between Auguste Rodin and the boilermaker.
Glad to see you painting again, as my own poetry lies in the mud. I'm expecting for this to change and am getting a few ideas. Just have to pull it together.
More important for me (now) to concentrate on not drinking, it's as much as I can do and bear.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Somewhere in California
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Dee74
*nerd alert* I think he left drinking behind relatively early but he was still on drugs when he left for Berlin and did the Low trilogy...He seems to have cleaned up then by most accounts, bar the cigarettes... That period, from late seventies on, encompasses one of my favourite albums Scary Monsters and the run of maybe less challenging but more commercial albums that really made him a megastar...and then (IMO) he found a creative edge again in the 90s. so yes definitely life, and talent, after addiction. D
I'm partial to "Space Oddity" through " Station to Station," with a scattering of latter day stuff here and there.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Somewhere in California
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by BullDog777
I've been a professional painter and illustrator for more than 20 years. my experience, if i may. the hard-"everything is hard before it is easy" -Goethe the lonely- This may have been true years ago, however, i don't see it as such anymore. With art message boards, vlogs, youtube and virtually limitless ways to communicate with people around the globe we are only as lonely as we choose to be. much like this place. the difficult-I've seen people of all ages start to market themselves, brilliantly i might add and make hundreds of thousands of dollars within a few years. The world we live in outside the corporate inside cyberspace is vastly what we make it. you have to find a niche' and a way to get it to the masses. it's really that simple. -that's just the beginning though. i can rattle off 2 dozen millionaires from youtube alone. and hundreds who come in a sea of a very wealthy inbetween. the romanticism-this is by FAR where most people fail. they live in the daydream and then expect to be discovered with little effort. "faith without works is dead" another...."everyone wants to be famous...few ever put in the work"
I stand by what I wrote. The creative life isn't all fun and games. It can cost friendships, relationships, etc. Art often consumes the artist in order to come into being. It requires an "all or nothing" approach (to do it right). I'm talking about less commercial forms of art. Lots of people create in the "tangible" art world, including more commercial types of art that can make you a damn good living. I was thinking more along the lines of music, dance, theater, etc.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by GnikNus
He was drinking in Berlin, and after- I think he cleaned up in the late 80's.
I'm partial to "Space Oddity" through " Station to Station," with a scattering of latter day stuff here and there.
I'm partial to "Space Oddity" through " Station to Station," with a scattering of latter day stuff here and there.
A timeline where that commercial mega success period was clean and sober matches the facts as I've read them
D
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Somewhere in California
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Dee74
Yeah, it depends on what interview you read, and who's doing the talking. A timeline where that commercial mega success period was clean and sober matches the facts as I've read them D
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
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When I said I'd have to reread Marx sleepie I should have said reread more thoroughly, so I could mount an argument in the intellectual sense. I did like Alienation though, quite separate from what is being discussed here.
Rodin rocks in bronze.
Rodin rocks in bronze.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,584
He's beautiful sleepie. Anyone with the name Odilon has got to be good. I'd never heard of him, so checked him out and then saw your picture post. Still checking him out, and he's great. I'm going to purchase the postcards depicting his work as Christmas cards. Only $1:50, and they're gorgeous.
Maybe I could write a poem for the back? Better than Hallmark, I'll give myself that.
Maybe I could write a poem for the back? Better than Hallmark, I'll give myself that.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
Originally Posted by MattM316
Oliver Reed for sure.
I have a biography of his and it's a great read.
The guy could be absolutely hammered and still act well.
I have a biography of his and it's a great read.
The guy could be absolutely hammered and still act well.
Not sure what movies you've seen but he's absolutely dreadful in some absolutely dreadful movies.
D
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,614
"Original poster".... I thought?
Just wondered did Steve in k ville who started the thread have any thoughts.
This thread made for quite a discussion.
At least we can rest assured that sobriety allows for stretching our grey matter a bit huh?
Just wondered did Steve in k ville who started the thread have any thoughts.
This thread made for quite a discussion.
At least we can rest assured that sobriety allows for stretching our grey matter a bit huh?
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,584
Oh, I see....you were asking whether original poster was still out there? Glad it didn't mean OP Rum. haha
Yes it did stretch the old grey matter, and at breakfast time, too. Trying to express complex ideas succinctly is difficult, and my head was doing loops trying to condense my ideas without losing meaning. It's all practice, hey?
Good to see you again sleepie. We do have a history.
Yes it did stretch the old grey matter, and at breakfast time, too. Trying to express complex ideas succinctly is difficult, and my head was doing loops trying to condense my ideas without losing meaning. It's all practice, hey?
Good to see you again sleepie. We do have a history.
Matt M
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Dee74
When I think of Oliver Reed I think of great promise unfulfilled.
Not sure what movies you've seen but he's absolutely dreadful in some absolutely dreadful movies.
D
Not sure what movies you've seen but he's absolutely dreadful in some absolutely dreadful movies.
D
He was great in 'The Brood', despite being drunk most of the time on set.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Originally Posted by MattM316
He was great in 'The Brood', despite being drunk most of the time on set.
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