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Feeling Brainwashed

Old 10-26-2016, 04:24 AM
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I came across this some years ago and thought it was perceptive, if somewhat biased (the author is President of SMART), If Not AA, Then What? SMART Recovery and the AA Alternatives | Huffington Post

"...non-12-step groups can be more positively defined as self-empowering groups. Self-empowering groups encourage individuals to take charge of their lives and leave addiction (and eventually recovery) behind. In contrast to the 12-step approach, self-empowering groups support individuals in taking charge of their lives rather than accepting powerlessness and turning their lives over to a higher power....

The 12-step approach is a serenity approach to recovery. The self-empowering approach is a courage approach. As the Serenity Prayer suggests, we all need both serenity and courage. However, most of us prefer one approach to the other. To use the language of scientific psychology, some of us tend toward external locus of control (serenity) and others tend toward internal locus of control (courage). Locus of control refers to our expectation about what in the future will shape our lives more (e.g., what controls us, or who is in charge): What happens to us, or what we do about it.

Self-empowering approaches to addiction recovery are well-suited for individuals who have an internal locus of control. Rather than thinking they have lost control of their lives because they have a disease, these individuals want to learn how to build motivation, control craving, resolve their underlying problems, and move on with creating meaningful and purposeful lives...."
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Old 10-26-2016, 04:42 AM
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Hi French,

Living in fear is miserable. It is where I was when I was at the end of my rope drinking.

My experience in AA has been the opposite. I have a great therapist and I think one would be very beneficial to you if you have that option.

As Tomsteve pointed out feeling imprisoned and living in fear is not part of the program. You mentioned backing off of your meetings and I think that is a great idea. Slow down there and find a new hobby, travel, do things you've always wanted to do. None of us have escaped the prison of alcohol only to feel imprisoned by something else.
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Old 10-26-2016, 05:54 AM
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The whole prayer/religious side of AA has always put me off.
I know people say it's not a religious organization but then they go onto talking about a 'higher power' and that's when I start backing away.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful to religious people, but it's just not for me.
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Old 10-26-2016, 06:23 AM
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Thank you all for your feedback. I actually did investigate SMART recovery and I attended one of their meetings last week. I also found a therapist who I saw for the first time last week; she actually agreed that I need to distance myself from AA. I think AA is great for a lot of people and I would never discourage anyone from going however I think for some people like me it can be damaging. I am someone with very obsessive thoughts and feelings of guilt. I don't think a mind like that mixes well with the black and white thinking of AA. As of now I think my plan is to continue going to my homegroup every Tuesday, go to the SMART meeting every Thursday and see my therapist every Saturday. I hope that this will allow me to break free of the extreme thinking without having to drop AA completely. I am also thinking about moving into my own place in a few months; I currently live with 2 members of AA. Although I consider them good friends, it is tough to deal with the daily guilt and pressure to attend meetings.

I think that it is awesome that AA creates a sense of freedom for some; for me that has not been the case. Hopefully I can get away from this feeling of total powerless and gain my freedom back.
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Old 10-26-2016, 06:26 AM
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French- a couple comments. I am glad that you are finding a path to what works for you. I would just echo the earlier post that it can be (seems to be for you) the case that it is the people, not the program, who are the "problem." The folks you live with aren't living a good program if guilt and pressure are part of their M.O. IMO, that would be true for any program's adherents.

Keep going! You are thoughtful and working to keep moving forward in a way that works for you. You can do it.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:45 AM
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I think you're in a place where you're ready for your world to get wider, you feel confined to what you know and tired of the same old routine and maybe you feel like there hasn't been any personal growth happening, and that can make you feel depressed.

One of my drinking triggers is boredom and frustration with repetition. I need change sometimes or I'll get depressed, and when I'm depressed I revert back to old coping mechanisms.

I agree with others who say therapy is a good direction to go in.. you may have exhausted all you can get out of AA for now.. The statement that you still feel a lot of discomfort with the world around you AND discomfort being around alcohol, makes me think there's a lot of work left to do... Because I think the goal, at least of MY recovery, is not to just stay sober, it's to get to a place where I feel good and alcohol has absolutely, positively, NO hold on me anymore!
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:44 AM
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I go to AA to have a life but AA is not my life.I have a rich and full life that has nothing to do with AA. I will admit most of my friends are in AA but I view them as friends first.

The last thing in the world I want is to be an AA junkie
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:09 AM
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Take a peek at Secular Connections on this site. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. I'm a fan of SMART=Self-Management for Addiction Recovery.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:20 AM
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AA would not be the cause of the way you are feeling,you are feeling the opposite of how you should be.It is not healthy for your whole life to revolve around AA and the people in it.

A visit to your GP would be a good idea.

The AA programme is designed so that you can live a life free of fear and be free.
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:45 AM
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The first step is the only one that mentions powerlessness....over ALCOHOL. The rest of the steps are about power. Getting it and using it rightly. And if AA is brainwashing, I certainly needed my brain to be washed! Washed of old thinking, old habits, old values, old perspectives.

I am surprised to hear that someone who has been "through" the steps twice feels powerless. And perhaps also that the person didn't have a spiritual awakening and the promises coming true?! That usually signals an outside issue: perhaps depression and anxiety...both of which are real. And not necessarily related to AA. These diagnoses can be crippling and can halt progress, whatever recovery program one is using.

For me, I needed outside help to deal with depression/anxiety issues. I don't usually give advice, but I would NOT make huge changes like quitting AA without talking to other people/therapists first. Being alone up in the head...thinking...thinking, in other words using self on a self problem...is not a good idea IMO.

I hope you feel better soon. I won't say pray about it....because I'm a non-theist! lol

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Old 10-27-2016, 06:22 AM
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Hi French and all.. I had the same problem back in the fall of 1990... went to the AA meetings went to the Doctor and one day looked at myself in the mirror and said what the heck are you doing???? had that heart to heart talk to me from me by me and just me.. funny just now can smell and taste the Earl Gray tea I was drinking that day.. Stop this right this minute.. and get this straight.. you have to do a better job for the kids and yourself or things will fall apart again.. went to an AA meeting that evening.. opened my eyes listened closer with my ears.. and walked out in hour.. never went back.... I may be nuts even a tad crazy .. but kids and beans ... when I took a good look at what I was trying to find in that group I said .. NOPE NOPE NOPE.. and left... maybe like in another thread .. One Persons Normal is not a Normal Model for everyone.. and we all need to find that Normal that is best for just Me I and Me.... sorry I am going in circles.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mfanch View Post
The first step is the only one that mentions powerlessness....over ALCOHOL. The rest of the steps are about power. Getting it and using it rightly. And if AA is brainwashing, I certainly needed my brain to be washed! Washed of old thinking, old habits, old values, old perspectives.

I am surprised to hear that someone who has been "through" the steps twice feels powerless. And perhaps also that the person didn't have a spiritual awakening and the promises coming true?! That usually signals an outside issue: perhaps depression and anxiety...both of which are real. And not necessarily related to AA. These diagnoses can be crippling and can halt progress, whatever recovery program one is using.

For me, I needed outside help to deal with depression/anxiety issues. I don't usually give advice, but I would NOT make huge changes like quitting AA without talking to other people/therapists first. Being alone up in the head...thinking...thinking, in other words using self on a self problem...is not a good idea IMO.

I hope you feel better soon. I won't say pray about it....because I'm a non-theist! lol

mfanch
I do believe depression/anxiety to be a factor in my situation and I am now seeing a therapist regarding those issues. I have nothing bad to say about AA as a whole and have no intentions of turning anyone off from AA. I just feel that it isn't right for everyone and that I might be one of those people. I don't plan to drop AA completely; I am planning to continue going to my homegroup. However, I need to get my life back and not feel dependent on the program.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ardy View Post
Hi French and all.. I had the same problem back in the fall of 1990... went to the AA meetings went to the Doctor and one day looked at myself in the mirror and said what the heck are you doing???? had that heart to heart talk to me from me by me and just me.. funny just now can smell and taste the Earl Gray tea I was drinking that day.. Stop this right this minute.. and get this straight.. you have to do a better job for the kids and yourself or things will fall apart again.. went to an AA meeting that evening.. opened my eyes listened closer with my ears.. and walked out in hour.. never went back.... I may be nuts even a tad crazy .. but kids and beans ... when I took a good look at what I was trying to find in that group I said .. NOPE NOPE NOPE.. and left... maybe like in another thread .. One Persons Normal is not a Normal Model for everyone.. and we all need to find that Normal that is best for just Me I and Me.... sorry I am going in circles.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I too am having those "what the heck am I doing" thoughts regarding AA. I see it work for many people but unfortunately, and I think AA needs to do a better job of recognizing this, recovery is not a "one size fits all" model.
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Old 10-27-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by French123 View Post
Thank you for the advice. I know there are people out there that get sober without AA but I just don't know any because my entire life revolves around AA at this point. I think I need balance. This black and white thinking is really hurting me. I want to feel like I am sober because I want it and I am doing it; not because of AA scare tactics and fear.
Have you considered going to an Al Anon meeting instead?
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Old 10-27-2016, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jojo82 View Post
Have you considered going to an Al Anon meeting instead?
What would be the objective of that? No one in my family has a drinking or drug problem? I have only been to 1 Al Anon meeting and it was actually because I was asked to speak there.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by French123 View Post
...recovery is not a "one size fits all" model.
Eggzactly.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by French123 View Post
What would be the objective of that? No one in my family has a drinking or drug problem? I have only been to 1 Al Anon meeting and it was actually because I was asked to speak there.
One concept that can be complicated to wrangle with is around our resentments, anger, dis-ease, etc at and to .... ourselves. I see a connection between us being an alcoholic - and OUR behavioral patterns and our defects- to how we relate to everyone else, regardless of whether the people in our lives are actual addicts and alcoholics. And anyone is likely to have had unsuccessful and dysfunctional relationships to some degree, right? So I can see how us, as the alcoholics, can benefit from another way of understanding ourselves and our disease, and how we want to relate in healthy ways to others going forward. How we used to "choose" people, what kind of life we had in relation to others, all kinds of pretty deep stuff.

Just my $0.02 on the benefits of a co-dependency program for us alcoholics.
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by French123 View Post
What would be the objective of that? No one in my family has a drinking or drug problem? I have only been to 1 Al Anon meeting and it was actually because I was asked to speak there.
Just that you mentioned black and white thinking. Al Anon is a great place to develop skills and tools for all the other colors of the spectrum.

The fact that you were asked to speak proves value.

It's up to you!
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:50 AM
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I think maybe my problem is that I am finding it hard to logically accept the disease model and the higher power concept. I am an agnostic and have no desire to be anything different and I also think it is unhealthy to accept that you have a terminal disease that makes you powerless and if you don't do AA you will drink and die.
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:59 AM
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French, I can identify with and relate to much of what you've stated about yourself. I'm contentedly agnostic/atheist and 'powerless' doesn't sit well with me either (maybe it's a gender thing), and the disease model isn't 'whole' in my opinion, though maybe it's a facet of addiction, or a perspective.

I am not in AA but I have been involved with it. I would like to mention the author, historian, and scholar Ernest Kurtz. Have you read of any of his books? The reason I bring this up is because this guy has single-handedly salvaged AA for me. If I were to ever participate in AA again, it would be because of this guy and through his perspective of AA and how it works.

Brainwashing might go on in some circles, and some people might be more susceptible than others to it, but it doesn't have to be this way at all.

If you stay in AA, I encourage you to read some of what Kurtz says about it. It's enlightening.
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