Full disclosure.
 

In short order because I am done with this day.

I have been dreading the weekend that just came and went. I drank before I went, I have drank steadily more since I came back.
I have been to zero meetings.
I have not been to dayprogramming once.
I literally binged and purged my way home on a 7 hour drive.
I spent more money on food binges in the past week than I've spent on booze in the past month and I am utterly disgusted with myself.
I keep buying booze to try and quell the binge cycle.
Doesn't work. I drink, don't get drunk, go right to some kind of midabdominal attack that leaves me writhing in pain and throwing up anyways. Still drink afterwards, because, ya know. I'm smart like that.

Not only have I missed umpteen meetings and dayprogram. I've missed two appointments already, not on purpose.

I want to throw in the towel. I was sober all weekend. Had its high points... had excruciatingly low points.

Black&white me... just has had enough. Don't want to feel. Everything effing hurts. There is no order in my life at all only chaos once again.

I didn't want to post this. But if I don't it will never stop. I do not know how to stop the ping pong between my addictions. It's exhausting... it's maddening. It makes me want to die.
I know my meds and my sleeping and now my eating and once, again, back to drinking are ******* everything up. And missing my appointment with my counsellor. Once I lose my grip... I just really lose it. And when I lose it. Well we all know how that cookie crumbles. It gets harder to reach out, to try harder. blah blah

I have so many emotions to deal with from this weekend that I have stuffed and drowned in food and booze. They're still there.

God help me, because I am falling apart. And I just want it to stop. I am such a failure.

((hugs)) and ((hugs)) Delizadee.
Sorry that things have been rough for you.

Hi Delizadee,

I'm Snarly. Nice to meet you.

I'm new here. 8/9 days sober.

Just went through a few nasty days myself but the folks on this site were extremely patient getting me past a really rough couple of days.

You hit a note with me regarding stomach pains. My body was screaming at me during and after my 10 day binge. Stomach cramps and couldn't hold anything down. My binge was on top of the insane amount I was drinking all day and night.

So bad I did go see a Doctor. Got some really bad news and that's a
huge factor why I'm here.

I think I can relate somewhat. Try not to beat yourself up.

Look forward to further chats.

Maybe the way back is to start the things you've been missing Del - the meetings the counsellor the dayprogramming.

I think you need to break the cycle - now - before you get deeper into it..

'I don't wanna' really isn't a good enough excuse?

D

Thanks for posting Delizadee. Hope tomorrow is less stressful for ya.

I see you have been doing lots of meetings in the past. Did you ever get into the steps, if so, how far?

You are 5000% not a failure black & white me implores you to stay sober you will decrease the cravings like this

Don't let the urges & cravings get the better of you .. we both know drinking will keep making things worse you don't want to drink it is you are finding this overwhelming and it was the same for anyone who truly got sober the early days were monstrous at times just felt like falling into a heap and wanted to cry my heart out .. sometimes i did but I didn't drink .. there was uncomfortable evenings where no matter what it was all that was on my mind but I knew in my soul this would pass it wasn't overnight but it was made a heck of a lot more bearable being surrounded by the support of AA & now SR make full use of the support here participate in threads when you feel ok aswell as not ok it makes all the difference

If I can ever help by listening or whatever just send a pm & know we are all rooting for you ok x

For what it's worth, I was in a somewhat similar situation, only in my case I had the feeling I had to choose between horrible physical pains and living through them sober, or drink and numb that same pain.

The irony was that alcohol was the best painkiller I was able to find to keep the neuropathic pains under control. Yet alcohol was also the reason I had it in the first place, and it was also make it worse.

Somehow, breaking that cycle was my way out to deal with both. Something I didn't think was possible, but by going for sobriety I also managed to reduce those pains - even though it took a while, and I had to bite my teeth. Double bite even.

But I got there. And so can you. I don't need to state the obvious that going to 0 meetings is what keeps you in this state of agony. No matter how bad you feel, no matter where you are in the process or in between your addictions, going to those meetings, asking for help, accepting help from others, believing in a way out will be the key to find recovery and peace. I'm sure you can do it.

I got ten days sober, then decided I can drink bourbon without beer. Well obviously it doesn't matter what I drink. If I drink alcohol I always drink more than I planned on . I ***(&d up today, but tomorrow I don't have to drink and I'm hanging on to that.

What Dee said. If you know the way back out, why not start heading in that direction instead of deeper into the darkness? I know it's not easy, and I know from dealing with similar situations with my own children, it sets off a lot of disturbing, conflicting emotions whenever we do get to spend time with them. I urge you to start making your way back to recovery. Beating yourself up over this recent setback won't get you any closer, but staying in it will only get you further and further away.

Morning, Del-
What is your plan today?
Wishing you good choices and being ready to get out of the darkness for good. You can do it.

Hey Deli, I am in recovery from bulimia, 4 years now. If you ever want to talk, PM. I understand.

Sending you lots of hugs.
I too suffered from anorexia and bulimia. My addictions...it was like playing whack a mole with them at times. Since working the steps, as they are laid out in the big book of AA, I have not had the urge to drink or binge and purge or starve myself/self harm. I am not sure where you stand with regard to recovery methods but AA worked for me. Big hugs to you sweetie.

Hi, Delizadee,

I am an alcoholic.
I have been to a few OA meetings.
You know how they recover from eating disorders?

They get a sponsor and work through the 12 steps as outlined in Alcoholics Anonymous.

I don't know if you've tried it.
But, for me, it works.
It really does.

Edit: Just saw Bunny's post. Guess I'm repeating.
Not to worry; I needed to hear things more than twice before I decided to take action.
All the best on your recovery,
Mind how you go.
~dox

Hey Del, hang in there. This **** can be defeated. You can do it!

:grouphug:

Thanks guys.

My addictions counselor squeezed me in today because she really wanted to see me after my weekend with the kids. I was honest with her about everything. Really, I can't not be honest with her. She asks hard questions and she knows how to cut through the BS. We discussed a lot of what went on. I spent much of the session crying. Something I hate doing. I told her how I can see these triggers coming a million miles away but I have no idea what to do with them on the other side.
Her view was that what I was seeing as triggers and cravings was grief and trauma from my past that was not dealt with and because I hadn't worked through it, I carry "I am bad, I am wrong" shame with me through everything and I have no healthy coping mechanisms. I just stuff it up and try to drown it by numbing myself out anyway I can. There have been times when I do good when I can sit through the tough emotions when I sober. There are events on the other hand that I emotionally shut down and I do anything to be numb.
My daughter did that to me after two wonderful days together.
When I asked her the wall came down and she totally shut me out. It was extremely painful. I told her she could unload on me anyway she wanted to, I apologized, told her I loved her, my dad and I implored her to talk. She just stuck with "I want to go home, I want to call my dad".

But I got to spend some time alone with my son and youngest one. That was nice. We had good long talks, spent time together at the park and snuggled lots on the weekend. Tearful goodbyes. My heart hurts.
My counselor gave me a huge hug today. She can see the progress and she says I get stuck on the bad instead of building on the good. I'm stuck in the generational cycle of having the inner dialogue of what my parents have spoken to me. I just keep reinforcing the negative. I fell back into the negative talk. EVERY little step back I take I beat the hell out of myself mentally. To the point where I can't see the 4 steps forward I took.


Gottalife, Bunny, Bug, I am starting to work on a step study with the group which is my unofficial home group. I have no sponsor here and I am JUST getting into it. I skidded through the steps on my own the first go round.
I did dig pretty deeply on step 4. And that's where I stopped.
There's a few things that stick out to me that if I'm going to be rigorous with anything, it needs to be honesty and to stop taking half measures. I've got the work book for the step study and I'm going to work through two women's recovery books (they both revolve around the 12 steps written through 2 women drs who have worked their way through recovery and tailored their books to doing the steps for women).
Somewhere along the line, I sat there and realized I have not read anything of the big book beyond the basic steps, tradition, preamble and stories at the back. I bought it for my kindle and started reading it.
Shake my head at myself... talk about half measures. Not reading the whole book and working the steps by myself, convinced I had it licked since I was sober.
Bunny and dox, I really do believe the 12 steps will really help with my addictive obsessions all around. The book "Addiction is the Symptom" addresses recovery as a whole in our lives. I know the work I did already on the steps brought out a lot of stuff.
I am going to be working with the help of one of the higher ups? oldtimers? who runs the step study. He is going to be helping me through emails and phone calls and in person when I go to Sunday meetings where I can bring my daughter.

So I am back at day program. In sharing circle I sat the lone woman in the group. And as I started to speak the tears flowed down my face. A lot of pain and gratitude coming out. My day program counselor said, You know who's crying? Your inner child. Let her cry so she can start to heal. So I had a lot of tears and laughs at day group today. I am emotionally exhausted.

I can do a lot of hard work if it means I don't have to think about things. I am lazy and disorganized and unmotivated when it comes to myself because I have a hard time believing I'm worth it putting the effort into.

So, back to AA, back to day program, back to reading recovery material, back to working the program of AA, back to organizing my life, back to dusting myself off.
Next week we're going to be starting the intake forms for family treatment with my addictions counselor. So rehab is still very much on the table. My counselor thinks the structure will really help me and it's a great program so I'm told.

Well we will see. Thanks for all the love and hugs and understanding.
I think sometimes the "I don't wanna" just comes from not having the coping skills and wanting to shut off life for awhile. Crawl in bed with netflix and pretend that's my world. But when I see the work that my own counselors have done and the people I go to program with, I know it's not what I really want.

Sorry for the novel. Thanks for "listening". <3

Barracking for you Del :)

D

You're counselor knows what she's doing.

You're very courageous, and you're doing a great job by putting yourself out there the way you do with someone who can actually walk with you towards a place of healing. In comparison to the entire human race, almost nobody does that. In fact, there is nothing at all nonconformist or rebellious about choosing suffering over a life well-lived, since the majority of the population choose the latter. The question becomes, then, not whether or not I've been a success or failure as a human being, or something in-between but, to echo the final scene of Saving Private Ryan, whether or not I've lived a good life. Perhaps the scariest question known to humankind, only second to the answer.

I get so frustrated when I hear or read people say or write things such as, "Why dredge up the past? It will only make things worse?" "I/we don't have to look at my/our awful past. It's over. Just move on." "What's the point of making amends? It will only bring up the past and make things worse?" "That was then, this is now." As though any of these responses explain anything at all in the Universe, while stoking the flames of personal misery. Such dismissive remarks demonstrate, and very clearly to me, that the person has not only learned to accept pain and suffering without the slightest protest, but that there is also no other option and, in fact, no better way for them to live. By living according to such dogma, being dismissive of the ridiculous notion of living a better life and "hearing" ourselves being dismissed by other people, whether real or delusional, becomes a way of life. I can spot someone like this a mile away, which is only partly due to the fact that this is the line of thinking -- though it's not truly 'thinking' at all -- that dominated most things of any significance in my life until I first got sober thirty three years ago. I have a nose for misery.

My frustration around this phenomenon, and the easy, accompanying dismissal of the importance of working through past trauma and abuse, often turns to anger. Yet we would not be human, and the world would be a very different place, if most people didn't decide to trade in happiness or fulfillment for the illusion of security.

People who have been abused become abusive. Either to themselves or others. Often both. And abuse is rarely as obvious as the Devil knocking at our doors with a pitchfork and horns.

We do all that verbal dancing around the dangers or insignificance of "dredging up the past" because we're so ashamed of ourselves, and we carry so much self-loathing, that we don't even deserve to be healthy, to live a better life, to truly leave the events of the past behind, which is not at all the same thing as forgetting. Of this we are convinced.

We live, without dissent, as though these past events are still taking place, and that they will never end. We over-identify with past abuse and trauma to the extent that it would be the moral equivalent of suicide to work through all of the hurt, and eventually let it go. And because we've been telling ourselves the same lies, over and over again, throughout or lives, we are in effect doing the heavy lifting for our earlier tormentors, whether we continue to engage them, cut off contact with them, or when they're dead. In turn, we develop a readiness to see and hear the same criticisms from other people, even when they don't communicate such things at all, either by word or intention. Everyone and everything becomes the enemy.

M. Scott Peck wrote a book that many people here are probably familiar with, entitled The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values, and Spiritual Growth. The original publishing date is December 25, 1978. I was sober when I read it, so it was at least five years later, and probably much later than that, when I read it. It was a little too "New-Agey" for me at the time, but I didn't allow that to blind me of the universal truths that he conveyed in a very accessible way. A couple of years later, he wrote another book, People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil, which I found to be much more compelling. Among his most prominent premises was that the people who most need help are precisely the people who are most unfit and/or unwilling to get it; the plight of being human, and the very source of evil.

None of us is doing anyone any favors by not getting the help we need, particularly ourselves, and more particularly those we claim to love or care for. But so many of us either dismiss the help we need in a variety of different ways, or we just "never get around to it." It is the ultimate act of selfishness and both the endorsement and condemnation of our humanity. Endorsement because that's what the vast majority of people on the planet do with reliable and no-longer-startling regularity, and condemnation because we actively choose to live a life without the possibility of redemption.

I'm indifferent to the plight of humanity. It's too big a concept for me to form any attachment with it and, ultimately, there's nothing I can do to change what we are. Nor would I want to. In fact, I don't really care. But it does break my heart when I see individuals voluntarily put themselves through a life that is a living hell. Or, to quote Henry David Thoreau, to "lead lives of quiet desperation."

If I don't require myself to learn from my suffering, then what's the point?

"...there is nothing at all nonconformist or rebellious about choosing suffering over a life well-lived, since the majority of the population choose the latter."

The former.

Endgame, I always enjoy your posts.

Everything you say is true. I know it is for myself and my life, and when I speak of the generational cycle, it's the parenting as we're taught and always trying to do better but still, the cycle is hard to break. And YES absolutely, the abuse is handed down either internally or externally.

I have sat through dozens, and dozens of meetings, and in the past counselling sessions, and I'm sure I've posted it on here enough times too, that I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and getting nowhere. Sitting through meetings and sharing circles and watching and listening to these people speak about real, raw feelings and genuine growth through spiritual healing, seeing all the good, the bad and the ugly come out and know that none of the people I meet in these rooms are bad people at all. I sit there and think, what the hell is wrong with me? Everything I say that comes out of my mouth is such BS.

I know my counselor is good- she is amazing. She speaks of her own recovery so openly, and let's me lead the conversation and redirecting where needed.
She is very good at shooting the arrow right into the middle of the conversation and examining it.

What you said about the general feelings about dealing with the past, and how most of people view things. That is my internal struggle. I want to do better but I don't know how to do better. My counselor talked about how recovery was like heaven and her life before was hell. But you don't know until you've really gotten to the other side and then you know you never want to go back.
But you have to walk through the pain so it doesn't drag you down throughout life.
And this just made me cry so much. She asked why I was crying.
I need to get over it. I need to put up or shut up. I'm not allowed to dwell on the past. That's what goes through my head. All the time. The inner dialogue of every negative thing my parents have said to me now comes in my own voice.
And the walking through it, how the hell do you that? And what's on the other side?

And thank you for saying I'm courageous, and all the other kind words that have been said. I know a lot of us try to keep ourselves pretty small (unless I get into the false bravado of "I'm done! No more drinking ever!") The only time I feel any sense of good about myself is when I'm helping other people. In small or big ways. There's no part of me that wants to help myself, or so I thought. I feel like a very shallow person. Or at least very walled in.

I've always felt that a lot of us suffer from living life in default. It's just easier. Which, like everything you said in your post is ridiculous to say. Isn't living life in default kind of a longer, more drawn out version of suicide through addiction? As said it's choosing a life of misery instead of walking through the fire to a life of happiness.

I don't think I was ready before to do the work because I've always been too scared of not only walking through the pain but finding out what's on the other side. Who am I if I am not my addictions (or mental illnesses), because it's all I've known for almost my entire life?

I can sort of start to see connecting the dots again like I did when I was sober with the February class. It's starting to click in my head that this is not an instant gratification thing. I don't put down the drink and get better. I don't get better and keep drinking. I don't get a passing grade if I don't do the work.

And I'll be honest, I don't like doing this work. I hate crying in front of other people and I sure did a lot of it today. Being vulnerable is scary. And it's tiring. And both my counselors keep saying it's ok to cry.. just doesn't make it easy. Breaking down these mental and emotional walls and knowing that being vulnerable is ok.
I don't know, maybe I do have a crack at this whole recovery thing.
Last night I was on my knees crying and praying for strength and guidance and I just felt so weak. I think I needed to surrender to being vulnerable. Too much ego and fear in the way.

What a week. I feel like my heart has been ripped out my chest yet I'm somehow still alive. I am so unbelievably grateful for you all, and for the counselors I have now and the people I meet.

Back to whack-a-mole (thanks Bunny that made me laugh :) )
and I have a lot of reading and homework to do before sunday.
You're all a lot of wonderful peeps.

Thanks for your kind words, Deli, but you don't have to thank me or anyone else for what you're doing. Courage is courage, and whatever isn't courage isn't courage, whether acknowledged or not.

You have a very important story to tell, one that many people need to hear. That many of those who can benefit from it most will do nothing as a result is beside the point.

When I read about your interactions with your counselor, I knew immediately that you'd made some major strides in your work with her, and that you had clearly learned something important from your suffering. Even if it doesn't seem that way to you. Some people might be surprised to know that this is a very rare event.

It may be instructive to look at alcoholism, or the struggle to get sober, as a model. I don't care about the percentages of people with addictions who go ahead and seek help, those who actually get clean and sober, or the fact that very few people even try, but the numbers are striking. About 10% of those with chemical addictions of any kind seek help. The standard for long-term abstinence for all chemical addictions among those who do get help is usually placed at between ten and thirty percent. Based on personal and professional experience, I lean towards the lower end of this estimate.

Why is it that we haven't learned to stop killing ourselves and, in the process, making life miserable for the people we care about most? We all know the horrors of addiction, yet the numbers tell us, among much else, that few of us actually do anything about it, and very few of those who get help remain abstinent. And these data hold, across-the-board, among those who seek help for and eventually get to a better place with virtually all kinds of maladaptive behaviors. The human race is very big on promoting "wellness," but not so good when it comes to do anything about it.

Ya know, you're story, the way you're able to articulate your suffering, your extreme honesty in doing so, and what you're willing to put yourself through in order to get well, despite the absence of any guarantees, is truly exceptional. In the service of not wanting to put too much pressure on you, this doesn't mean that you won't stumble along the way, or that anyone will lose all sense of compassion by criticizing you if you do. After all, and as is true of too many of us, you've been taught that nothing you do is ever good enough, and that you'll face severe punishment if you don't do things perfectly well according to someone else's standards.

.... and isn't that just it? Who can really recover from anything if they can't be honest with themselves or others about how they really feel. Or the things they've done. I am so sick of lying. I do feel like if I take a step back I have not only let myself down, but I've let my entire support system down. I think most of us feel that way. And so we stumble, and retreat in shame. Afraid to look honestly at what's going on and how we're feeling. Afraid that not adhering to perfect abstinence or behaviours will bring us to severe persecution or consequences. Afraid that real truth or tough love is going to literally kill us if we stop for one moment to consider it might be true.

I have to say, the past two days have stripped me bare. This morning, I am kid free, my ex took my dogs with him to the farm too to help with the racoon problem. There go my plans for a long walk with my dogs and podcasting. Who's to say I can't do it alone? I just don't want to. I don't want to be alone.
So, I cancelled my date tonight. Why date? I am in no shape to date. I went on a date because I wanted to feel some connection somewhere that had some innocence and honesty in it. I don't want to be alone. But I also don't want to be sitting there with not much more than a stranger with all my guts hanging out that I can't seem to stuff back inside me. I can't. Stop. Crying.
I cancelled my date with my friend tomorrow too. I won't cancel AA.

I have been pacing the house. Trying to focus on something. I WANT TO DRINK. All I seem to do is shake. This is the problem. Walking through the pain. I want a meeting. I want to not be alone. I want to NOT feel like this at all. I don't want to sit there and watch the hours go by going from one mindless task to the other obsessing about going to buy booze, what do I want to gorge myself on next, breaking my no-bars rule to go gamble (I self-banned myself from the casino-- even that makes me clench my fists)

I am running around in a panic. Trying to breathe.
This is what happens. Every single time I hit this point in working through my sh*t. I freak out. I hit the wall. Because what comes next? Hooooow do I sit here with all these questions and no answers?

Let's go over them:
I'm a disappointment.
I'm just tired, I need a nap.
I need to get over it, let it go.
Your truth is not true.
What you say is wrong.
What you feel is wrong.
What you do is wrong.
You are wrong.
You are not allowed a voice or an opinion.
You just imagined it.
You need to get your sh*t together.
Just stop doing XYZ
Don't tell mom about that abuse.
You don't have a leg to stand on.
That never happened.
Just stand up for yourself.
Put up or shut up.
Don't let them get you down, or take advantage of you.
Well, you put yourself in that situation.

Etc ad nauseum.

I know we ALL have stories full of pain. I really don't think mine is particularly special. I know I have tried MY WHOLE ADULT LIFE to fix whatever is wrong inside of me because all I know is that everything inside of me is wrong.
I went to any end I could think of to find an answer, some way of fixing whatever was wrong with me. I have gone to great lengths.

Of course, we find our escapes along the way.
I got lucky. I had a terrible, abusive boyfriend that I had two beautiful kids with who dragged me to a province I hated and didn't want to move to, isolated me from all my family and friends. BUT. There was help out here. It still took me 10 years and a very, very deep dip in the bottle to find the help I really needed but it was here. Out in the middle of nowhere. At no cost to me.

BUT. Every time I hit a "breakthrough" in therapy, I run. Up comes the wall. I get mad. This blubbering mess is even worse than anger because I JUST WANT IT TO STOP. I know I've posted about this somewhere before on here.

Being told, I have a right to be angry (well, no I've been told I don't and my feelings on everything are not valid). (I never went back to that counselor by the way)

Being told it was ok to cry. (No no no, go have a nap. Are you on your period?)

And well, all the other good stuff that I've started to fill the void with and slowly ripping off the rotted layers of my soul. I still see the good that people can find.

But right now I am stuck in a box. I feel trapped and panicked because all these things I have been running away from for 25 odd years are all catching up to me and I'm running out of room to run.

I can see a lot of good things they just seem really, really far away... and between me and that "stuff", that elusive feeling of freedom and unencumbered joy there is a huge chasm that I can't see the bottom of.

I feel like stripping away all the ugly would leave nothing left of me. And how do you cross the unknown?
Why is it that I have so many answers for everyone else yet I get so lost and stuck in the mire of my own life? I am not this person. Who am I?

Deep breath.
I think too much and I'm not good at expressing what I want to most of the time. Writing is a little easier than speaking. In fact expressing how I feel when talking is almost impossible to me.

There sure is a lot to be said about working sobriety and working towards recovery, that much I am starting to understand now is true.

The tragic irony of it all is it's so predictable. This path was laid out for me by my mother, who I know very little of. I've landed myself in the hospital many times thanks to suicide attempts almost always fueled by booze. My mother overdosed while she was drinking. It was deemed an accidental overdose. I was a year and a half old, alone in her care when she died. By all accounts I've followed in her footsteps in every way, good and bad. The only difference being I've got a decade on her 23 years on this earth and I've gotten 7 or 8 do overs to try and get this right.

I don't want this for my kids. I can see myself in my daughter already and that scares me.

Well the floodgates have been opened and there's no putting all those tears and emotions back in there. At least I've stopped crying and shaking and I'm breathing.

Now what?

I'm tapping my fingers trying to think of the lesser of all evils.
I keep telling myself I'm here. I'm showing up.
I get it, I get it.
I came. I came to. I came to believe.

I just want it. Now.

I am really, really tired of hurting. And hurting everyone else.
And this is what, 24 hours of real honest reflection?

Oh boy. I'm screwed.

I'm settling on a pack of smokes for now and a gingerale.
I have so much work to do. Besides this verbal gut retching I'm doing all over SR. Screw it. I'm going for smokes and for some fresh air.

I think I'm going to change my user name to, "writerofsmallnovels"
And if you made it this far, I owe you an award. <3

I submitted this at around the same time as your most recent post, so I'll mercilessly need to follow up. :run

You've made a point of talking about crying in your comments, Delizadee, as well as your own reactions to it.

To me, we cry for the same reasons that we cried as infants and children. We don't know what to do with the pain. In crying, we also signal to other people that we need help, which is not the same as accepting it. Two very different things. Almost anyone who is or has been a mother or "mothering one (MO)" (i.e, a surrogate caregiver/taker whether or not the biological mother is present or absent, or the biological mother herself), knows what it is to hear a baby crying. And then act accordingly. In the case of an indifferent or otherwise pathological MO, inaction, or worse, punishment reliably ensues. Knowledge is not always power. By the end of the 20th Century, one would hope that we came to learn the deleterious effects of always responding to the baby's cries by soothing the baby back to silence. But we go on doing what we've been doing anyway. In turn, by either excessive attention or excessive neglect, the child never, or never effectively, learns how to soothe itself when in distress. Donald Winnicott, a British pediatrician, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst and sociologist, talked about "good enough mothering."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-enough-mother

Many people, and especially people who've been abused, learn that crying is, at the very least, an inconvenience for their MOs. In extreme abusive mother-child relationships and, truly, in abusive relationships of any kind, it becomes increasingly dangerous to express even a hint of discomfort. We even learn to devalue ourselves as human beings in our crying. Or we cry or complain all the time, and devalue the power of our tears and the honesty of our suffering; another means of keeping at a distance people who might otherwise have helped us.

Virtually everyone needs to unlearn ways if thinking and behaviors from our earlier years, particularly those that later encourage destructive and self-destructive activity. But not everything. Some things we learned are more or less harmless or even adaptable, while others don't make all that much of a difference beyond irritating other people. But when our impulses and habits, our habitual way of being, lead us to destroying ourselves, to demeaning others in thought, word or deed, to make it a certainty that we'll live a life of regret and remorse, and/or reacting to the status quo as our singular, lifeless identity, then something different needs to be tried. And if that doesn't "work," something else needs to be tried, and then tried again, and then something else again.

With all our planning, with all our brainwashing about who and what we are, life only "makes sense" in retrospect, if one can call that making sense at all. I don't. To look at the underside of a tapestry doesn't give or take away sense, reason or value from the intended "finished product." It also works the other way around. One simply cannot be without the other.

We may imagine ourselves to be anything from rock stars, statesmen and women, changemakers, celebrities, peacemakers, to actors and actresses, medical and scientific geniuses, artists of every kind, and even heroes. Until we're not. Dreams don't come true on their own and, often, even when we work at them, many of us fall woefully short of our unrealistic expectations. "Is that all there is?" We never know where we're going until we get there, and we never know what it is that we can accomplish until we do it.

I don't care what you have or haven't done; I only care about what you're in the process of becoming. Sitting still or hoping for the best, or deciding that most everything in life "is what it is" and is not worth challenging, not worth our trouble, is nothing more or less than despair in all its whatever-the-opposite-of-courage is ingloriousness. Standing perfectly still with the expectation that you can't hit a stationary, isolated, or hidden target is only infinite regress personified. And is hopelessly without benefit to anyone.

To be human is to suffer. No sane person has ever attempted to challenge this, and no one has ever been fast enough to run away from this simple reality, though many of us have tried, and many will continue to do so. It's the process of working through our pain and misery that is the outcome. The process of working through and only sometimes learning something from our suffering, if at all, is what makes us who we are. The process itself can make us whole, not again, but for the very first time. Or at least as whole as nature and individual limitations will allow. The concept of "wholeness" itself inducing both dread and terror.

I wish I could comfort the precious babe bereft without her mama.
Kindest thoughts to you, Delizadee. :hug:

The thing of it is, you don't have to know. The need to know before we do anything of importance is an unfortunate hangover from Twentieth-Century thinking. It encourages a drive towards the normalization of all things, where explanations and descriptions of people and things replace knowing and believing. It encourages envy of a lethal caliber towards, and the ultimate dismissal of, excellence, and finally discourages the desire to explore and discover, and instead rewards "averageness" as a preemptive antidote for fear and doubt.

You're eighteen years old, and someone offers you a long but average life, with average highs and lows, average interpersonal experiences, and average rewards. Or, you can choose a life of unknown consequences, including your own longevity, with the likelihood of experiencing your greatest dreams and your worst nightmares in unequal measure. A life of unpredictable suffering. Which would you choose?

I would go as far as to argue that, with the kinds of things we're discussing, knowing adds nothing to the process and can, in fact, be harmful. The ability to predict is the Rosetta Stone in science, but does very little in terms of living a good life.

You're an atheist, a non-believer, or a person without faith. A worshipper at the altar of science, or just someone who relies primarily on common sense. Maybe you carry the misguided notion that science somehow "trumps" God, or even that science has sproven that God does not exist. It hasn't. It mostly doesn't care.

Or you're a God-fearing Christian, someone who invokes a Higher Power, or who believes that faith is much more powerful than anything that is knowable. All of the squabbling over whether or not God exists, or that even the idea of God is helpful or hurtful, is essentially an endless debate over nothing, with the empty, meaningless benefits of such an enterprise falling perfectly and inexorably in line with the purposelessness of the debate itself. All of this saber-rattling in the name of belief and non-belief has brought "both sides" of this (to me) petty argument to the same exact place in terms of your addictions.

It doesn't matter. We are all someday going to die, and we're all going to die of something. For many of us, this will be much sooner than we allow ourselves to imagine. The only thing left to do is to act.

Problems around life and death don't care about what anyone believes in. Don't care about personal convictions. Don't care that you place yourself above others due to your beliefs or your lack of beliefs. Life and death go on without our principles, no matter how genuine we are in protecting them from rational or irrational influences.

The idea is to stop killing ourselves, to stop alienating ourselves from the larger group because we have some special mission or calling, because our history has made us separate, and somehow much better or much worse than other people, or because we believe that we've been endowed with a special way of seeing the world that is inaccessible to everyone else. No one cares as much as you might imagine they do. The idea is to get sober, and to do that, we often have to leave behind the things of a child.

The idea is to find a better way for yourself, and then find the courage to live it.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -- C.S. Lewis

Del I was worried if I stripped the alcoholic from there'd be nothing left....

in fact I found a long forgotten room I'd papered over at some point and a me I'd forgotten existed.

Getting sober is a leap of faith, but not a very risky one - not when you read the success stories here fo those who have gone before you.

You might want to drink - but please realise...you don't have to :)

Thank you all for the truly heartfelt and moving shares on this thread. Feeling very sad and happy here.