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Mixed feelings about an A.A. meeting I went to yesterday.



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Mixed feelings about an A.A. meeting I went to yesterday.

Old 09-12-2016, 06:21 PM
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Mixed feelings about an A.A. meeting I went to yesterday.

I have a friend who I have known before I joined AA and she has 40 years of sobriety. I was at a meeting where the topic was about peoples experiences about step 9. I was second to speak, then my friend. She blew up, swore, yelled in the basement of a church, nothing to do with the topic. People are already talking about not allowing her to the meetings after the group conscience that is coming up. I feel conflicted because she is a friend, but she does have mental problems. I don't feel anyone should be denied a meeting if they need it.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:48 PM
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While it was most likely disturbing, you cannot control her actions and I would concentrate on your own sobriety. She can be responsible for her own actions, and she could certainly attend other meetings if she chose I would imagine.
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:06 PM
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The common good has to come first. If her actions are a distraction to the message then unfortunately she may have find another meeting
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:16 PM
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Yes the common welfare has to come first. And if her outbursts could upset someone enough into drinking that would terrible and defeat the purpose.
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:22 PM
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The Story of Irma Livoni
The Story of Irma Livoni and a copy of a letter to Irma L. from the Los Angeles Group, Dec. 6th, 1941
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:34 PM
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Thank you for sharing this.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:34 PM
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If there is a mental condition that led to her outburst, I'd be surprised if it's the first time it's happened at a meeting (in her 40 years).

One thing I notice about my special needs teens at school is that they always tend to waut til theyre back in a safe place before they have a good old blow-up. Preferably with people that they trust most. I don't think it at all surprising that often people hold their frustration in until they get to their safe place - often their home group.

If it was just a little yelling and swearing I suspect that once everyone has calmed down, compassion will win out.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JudicatorPanzer View Post
Yes the common welfare has to come first. And if her outbursts could upset someone enough into drinking that would terrible and defeat the purpose.
WHOA. There is common welfare, and group "peace" matter - but that does NOT mean that anyone is responsible for anyone else's choice to drink. Period, full stop. That's not what common welfare is responsible for or means.

I have been troubled by people at meetings; one time a gentleman came in the middle of a meeting, screaming and cursing. He's a known problem and I believe has been put on "temporary ban" (at the big clubhouse I go to, there are temporary, ie 6mo, and permanent - a list is posted on the wall where announcements go). Another time, a man showed up and sat next to me, clearly drunk and smelling and near passing out. In both situations, I had to take it back to step one- I am powerless over alcohol - I am also powerless over others.

Sometimes, an AA meeting/clubhouse is the only safe place someone can go without fear of being arrested, etc. There is a line for balancing that sanctity being offered and someone abusing it.

My suggestion, too, is that you focus on you. You can be a friend in spirit, and separate yourself from her behavior and situations. That is ok and still supportive. I'd also....stay away from what sounds like drama and gossip. Truly- not your circus, not your monkeys.
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:48 AM
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Depends on the group conscience decision. If she's out, she's out. You can be part of the group conscience and express your view. That's about the best you can do. Good luck.
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:36 AM
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Is she seeking professional help for her mental health issues? If not, that would be something to look into.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:31 AM
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Thanks for your responses. I agree August no one can pour liqour down another's throat. She does have problems I cannot fix and I cannot make them my own To my knowledge (she has said this in meetings) that she thinks therapy is BS.

EDIT: Also I am fairly new to AA. I talked to my sponsor about her and apparently these outbursts are a repeating problem that happen about every 4 months.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JudicatorPanzer View Post
To my knowledge (she has said this in meetings) that she thinks therapy is BS.
It's not uncommon at all for people to deny their psychological issues or refuse to seek treatment, just as we do with our addictions. And just like alcoholism, only she can make the decision to seek help. Of course there are some severe disorders where an individual is a danger to themselves or others and can be placed in protective custody or treatment against their will, but for the most part people need to accept their issues and face them/treat them just like we need to accept and treat our addiction.

Your concern for your friend is admirable and she's lucky to have you - hopefully she'll realize what she needs and get it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:42 AM
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thats hard to experience but i think most of us at some time or another has experienced it. its not an easy decision for the group to make, but its very important for us to provide a safe and protective atmosphere for the newcomer. yes, we are all at different phases of development. yes, there are those with grave emotional and mental disorders. BUUUUUT, allowing them to continue comin into a meeting and being disruptive is enabling them continue unacceptable behavior.
if that was my first meeting and that happened? i dont think i would have kept going back.

"I don't feel anyone should be denied a meeting if they need it."

theres a crapload of people that really need meetings,
but meetings and the program are for people that want it- if you have decided you WANT what we have.......
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:44 AM
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justa quick question- have you experienced this behavior in her outside of meetings?
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:17 AM
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Kicking someone out of a meeting and denying them the support they need might be a death sentence. I abhor the cliquish attitude that pervades many groups of all flavors, and while a particular individual might create challenges for other people in a group, it's up to those other people to find ways to deal with him or her. A much better approach would be simply talking to the person and asking him or her to please not yell and swear.
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:37 AM
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It's been my experience that AA meetings frequently have people in them who have any 1 or more of a variety of psychological and mental health issues.

That is obviously the case with this lady.

In AA, many people have dual diagnoses and, in many cases, both the alcoholism and mental health issues can be successfully treated.

But that isn't always the case.

Not everyone has the capacity to be honest with oneself.

This lady may well have and exercise that capacity, but have other issues which need help.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:02 AM
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What an amazing read. Thank you for sharing that.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:25 AM
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I go to a meeting were we have a couple of people who are not on this planet. Maybe some other planet but not earth. One is extremely strange but harmless. The other is extremely strange and combative. She had been warned multiple times and finally she got in a altercation with the person chairing the meeting because according to her rules they weren't chairing correctly. The chair got up and said, "I don't need this sh_t and walked out."

A group conscious was taken and she was asked to find another meeting. Personally I think the right decision was made but who knows
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
justa quick question- have you experienced this behavior in her outside of meetings?
She can get loud and very outspoken outside meetings. But never anything like this.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:05 PM
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"Our membership ought to include all who suffer alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation."

This is a sweeping statement indeed; it takes in a lot of territory. Some people might think it too idealistic to be practical. It tells every alcoholic in the world that he may become, and remain, a member of Alcoholics Anonymous so long as he says so. In short, Alcoholics Anonymous has no membership rule.

Why is this so? Our answer is simple and practical. Even in self protection, we do not wish to erect the slightest barrier between ourselves and the brother alcoholic who still suffers. We know that society has been demanding that he conform to its laws and conventions. But the essence of his alcoholic malady is the fact that he has been unable or unwilling to conform either to the laws of man or God. If he is anything, the sick alcoholic is a rebellious nonconformist. How well we understand that; every member of Alcoholics Anonymous was once a rebel himself. Hence we cannot offer to meet him at any half-way mark. We must enter the dark cave where he is and show him that we understand. We realize that he is altogether too weak and confused to jump hurdles. If we raise obstacles, he might stay away and perish. He might be denied his priceless opportunity.

So when he asks, "Are there any conditions?" we joyfully reply, "No, not a one." When skeptically he comes back saying, "But certainly there must be things that I have to do and believe," we quickly answer, "In Alcoholics Anonymous there are no musts." Cynically, perhaps, he then inquires, "What is this all going to cost me?" We are able to laugh and say, "Nothing at all, there are no fees and dues." Thus, in a brief hour, is our friend disarmed of his suspicion and rebellion. His eyes begin to open on a new world of friendship and understanding. Bankrupt idealist that he has been, his ideal is no longer a dream. After years of lonely search it now stands revealed. The reality of Alcoholics Anonymous bursts upon him. For Alcoholics Anonymous is saying, "We have something priceless to give, if only you will receive." That is all. But to our new friend, it is everything. Without more ado, he becomes one of us.

Our membership tradition does contain, however, one vitally important qualification. That qualification relates to the use of our name, Alcoholics Anonymous. We believe that any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. Here our purpose is clear and unequivocal. For obvious reasons we wish the name Alcoholics Anonymous to be used only in connection with straight A.A. activities. One can think of no A.A. member who would like, for example, to see the formation of "dry" A.A. groups, "wet" A.A. groups, Republican A.A. groups, Communist A.A. groups. Few, if any, would wish our groups to be designated by religious denominations. We cannot lend the A.A. name, even indirectly to other activities, however worthy. If we do so we shall become hopelessly compromised and divided. We think that A.A. should offer its experience to the whole world for whatever use can be made of it. But not its name. Nothing could be more certain.

Let us of A.A. therefore resolve that we shall always be inclusive, and never exclusive, offering all we have to all men save our title. May all barriers be thus leveled, may our unity thus be preserved. And may God grant us a long life --and a useful one!

Bill W.

The A.A. Grapevine, February, 1948
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