Flawed

My sponsor always has to remind me that it's Alcoholics Anonymous and not Well People's Anonymous. Still some people with issues

nonblonde

In my last good bout of sobriety I actually decided to return to AA because I knew it was chock full of people with control issues who like to tell you what to do. And those are precisely the people that make me completely mental. I thought it would be a good place to start practicing how to "let things slide off my back". I mean anyone is free to say anything they please to me. It's up to me how I respond (preferable) or react (what I typically do).

I know it's hard to take...but I think it's good for us to learn how to stand our own ground and have confidence in our own wisdom and decisions.

MIRecovery

Here is an aspect you may not have thought of. I am at 5 people I knew well that are now dead. I became emotionally invested in two them, both left the program and decided to give drinking another go. They are gone now and it hurts like hell.

If I perceive that the actions of an individual are putting them at a low probability of success I put up an emotional wall. I am friendly, helpful and respectful but the individual will not be allowed into my emotional investment zone. I have seen hundreds come and go. After 1000+ meetings you learn to see what works and what doesn't so I am very careful of people that wish to do AA their way because I simply don't want to get hurt again

awuh1

nonblond, I feel the same way about control freaks. There seem to be at least three sorts of them in AA. From worst to best here is my take.

The worst are those who want to control as much of everything and everyone as they can. Their need for control is based on fear. Fear makes them uncomfortable and control is the way they "manage" it. Sadly, many of them like to hold positions (often at the district and area level) where they can feel like they can run (a bigger part of) the show. They just continue to rotate from one position to another.

Less aggravating are those with a selfish personal motive. I have even seen sponsors who (at least in part) had this motivation while taking people through the steps. At least to me their motivation seemed to be about looking good to other people, like having many sponcees made them a guru, or somehow more important than other people. They often are quite helpful, but their motivations can make them less so at times. Having said that it's important not to put the sponsor on a pedestal nor to expect them to behave like a saint.

Least aggravating are those who make suggestions based on an unselfish desire to be helpful but despite being well intentioned sometimes strike a newcomer as instructing them as to what they must do. Very often they don't intend it that way, but that's how it is perceived. Many of them have been so far away from their last drink that they have forgotten how sensitive newcomers are.

Bottom line, assess the the motivation of the person you are speaking with as best you can. A vast majority of people in AA just want to be helpful.

2muchpain

First. congrats on 8 months!!!! That's fantastic. I'm sure you worked hard to get there. You must have done a lot of work to get there and are just trying add on some tools to your sobriety plan by going to AA and good for you for doing that. But AA offers a very structured way of staying sober, and anybody that differs from this structure will probably be looked on as a non believer. It's unfortunate because after 8 months of sobriety, you could probably offer some great advice on how to stay sober, but if it doesn't fit in with the principles of AA, it won't be appreciated. Nothing to do with you or AA. Hopefully you will stick with AA cause it does have a lot to offer but the important thing is you keep doing what kept you sober for 8 months and don't let the attitudes of the people in AA or anywhere else get in the way of your success. Take care. John

Talkinandwalkin

If under consideration AA is the main reason you are 8 months I would grin and bear it. Anything is better than drinking. However if the answer is no to AA's influence drop it. The people on here mean well but at the end of the day you alone own your sobriety. Despite what the vocal "my way crowd"believes nore than one road to sobriety exists. I personally have never attended an AA meeting and am past a year sober.

LadyBlue0527

So much irony in this thread

It took me a while to get it too. Timmy, I congratulate you on your sober time and if you are sober and happy that's all that matters.

I agree with your statement that there are many arm folders in AA. The same is true with life in general. I didn't let that keep me from working the steps and in turn it actually forced me to investigate why I feel that way about them.

I've spent time on and off over the years paying good money for counseling. I've yet to think back and find anything that is equal to what the steps have done for me. Will it do the same for everyone? Not my place to say.

When I got over my sense of needing to control everything and instead focused on what my issues are I stopped the grinding and fighting. Instead of being concerned about others actions I learned to look inward. I can't change or fix other people. I can only work on me. What is my lot in life? The earth does not revolve around me. Oddly enough I used to accuse others of being that way. Nope, it's all me and my perception of them. If that's who they are it's their issue, not mine.

Do I still get irritated or disappointed? Sure. I'm human. I just have a far better way of dealing with those feelings now.

It's disheartening when I see a post like yours followed up with an I knew it so I'm shying away too. There is so much that's good in the program and so many meetings available. You'll find the arm folders everywhere you go but let them be them and don't let it ruin the goodness for you.

August252015

Yes...but the wise people in AA also know and say to others, "there are as many forms of recovery as there are alcoholics." It's not a one size fits all program IN THE SENSE that the steps, traditions and ensuing promises are laid out for an alcoholic to follow, but the how - the flow, so to speak- is individual. This is why my first sponsor follows a Letter Of The Law approach to her recovery; I know the letters (ie, the actual words and pages and stuff from the BB) but apply more of a Spirit of The Law approach to my recovery. Ex- she color codes the to dos in her calendar and literally everything she does- including things like a 3 min window to talk to me each morning- is scheduled and "must" be executed that way. I have my plan for the day- ex my 5 things I do in the am as recovery/devotional work- but I get them done over a span of, say, a couple of hours. I have more fluidity. I have a routine, but it is my own and it's my application of the program.

We are both sober, recovering, living good lives alcoholics. Our different approaches are part of why she isn't my sponsor any more, and I have my second one (I just hit 6mo and my first sponsor was there from 97 days til 5 or so months with overlap in the two). My sponsor now is more intuitive in applying and practical in using "real world" examples in conjunction with BB foundation. That's my style.

I'd say..."keep coming back - you never know then the miracle will happen." A wise-goer told me the latter - he means that you never know when a miracle of something you need to hear or learn will hit you. THAT is what we should take from meetings and conversations in AA.

Db1105

Congratulations on your 8 months. If the group guru's stopped talking to you, so what? It's their loss, and if that's the way they act, you're not missing anything. Keep doing what you're doing. The bottom line is 12 sStep programs work by working the 12 Steps.

Whodathunk

Congrats on 8 months. I give AA most of the credit for my sobriety. I am going at it without a sponsor, just my personal choice. I got a sponsor, it failed miserably, and I had my relapse from hell after he left me hanging in the middle of my 5th step. I tried another sponsor and just did not like 'his' rules, and each sponsor has their own rules. I am not saying sponsors are bad, just not for me. But many in our group do not have sponsors, but we have a pretty large group. Then again, I have no friends in AA, I go to listen, sometimes share, and I just am not one to hang with people in general, so what you are experiencing may happen in our meeting too, I wouldn't know, and I don't care. But if you are uncomfortable at that meeting now, there are usually other meetings you can check out.

Don't let those people get to you.

AA keeps me in touch especially when I am feeling really good or not so good. My early relapses usually happened when I felt on top of the world, and felt entitled and deserving of a drink, and maybe that I really was not an alcoholic. I learned over time how this is pretty common. Maybe a sponsor could have helped me through those times.

Also, you can get a temporary sponsor if you want. There are no rules to having a sponsor, each sponsor has their own way, not all are right or wrong for any one person.

Unstable

There's a lot of imperfect people in AA. I say take what you want from the program. If you don't have a sponsor yet, that's your business.

A lot of people go in thinking that everyone there will be super open minded and down to earth. Its not always the case. There's a lot of people who still judge others and choose to boss newcomers around. I avoid those types. If a guy isn't gonna talk to you just because you don't have a sponsor, he still has some work to do himself.

january161992

For me, imperfect is a huge improvement.

Heck, I strive to be imperfect!

I'm just tryin' to not be a complete freakin' knucklehead!

Mountainmanbob

No one's perfect
for I see the one in the mirror.
Mountainman

EightyThree

In the first edition it actually says "The only requirement is an honestdesire to stop drinking. Somewhere a long the way it got switched.

In regards to your experience. I've seen a lot in the rooms and have encountered extreme Egofests. My first sponsor visited me in treatment all sad saying he has to get a 24 hour chip. It left me confused and the councillors in the centre suggested I find somebody else. Then a year later he got a 20 year medallion???????????!

Me being younger (I look like I'm 20 but am 33) I got a lot of attention when I ca,e in sometimes jealousy. I found a group and a sponsor right away because it was suggested. I'm on my 3rd sponsor now. The 2nd one I chose was just too busy and too new to the program. He had 2 years at the time but wasn't taken thoroughly through the steps. We did back to basics and I didn't get much out of it.

In treatment one of my housemates went to set at the back of the room because he was agitated and on the fence to if he was going to stay in treatment. The old timers came and said"you can't sit here unless you have 30 years" this set him off and I personally spent hours talking him into staying. Some people just have their own issues with ego. I suggest to ignore it. Focus on you. Do what's suggested by somebody who has done the work and who you respect. Don't let some snoopy people mess with your recovery

MrDavid

Every meeting place is different, and sometimes those differences impact the group as a whole. Case in point, my former home group here in New York.

My former home group, SOS, continues to operate under a long standing tradition that has been in place for years. Well, that was until recently.

There has been a series of incidents involving numerous individuals who call themselves “the true voice of AA”. Their tactics may seem harmless to some people, given their time sober, but in my expert opinion it's nothing more than someone's alcoholism run amok. Here is how they operate.

It's start out slowly with a snide remark here an there. Then, they use a well known tactic called a 'disruption injunction', like cross talking or disinformation. Finally, after the group is in total disarray, they interject their own brand of recovery through outright intimidation and bullying.

Unfortunately, this tactic has succeeded on many fronts, including taking over an entire meeting place -including my former home group “SOS”. It’s only when a group of individuals, including yours truly, stand up and say ‘no more’ that the walls come crashing down.

This specific trend is nothing new, however. It has been happening for quite some time and the stories keep on coming. So my advice is actually quite simple: I would try to remain open minded without being too hypercritical. It may be the only way to smooth out the situation.

I know; we all have our own opinion and of course our opinions matter, but it should not exacerbate the situation. I would also try to develop a friendship with at least one good soul in recovery, if not two. Who knows: They may turn out to be our strongest allies, if not more.

There is another side of AA that I’m not always proud of, and it has to do with difficult people.

You know what the say in AA, right? How the truth is stranger than fiction? Than same precedent applies to individuals themselves. Some people are friendly to newcomers while others treat them like objects, not individuals. It’s a fact of life that exists just about everywhere.

Some of those people are pig-headed and will not budge either way, and others are more sympathetic and will comply to your wishes. This is where you can politely illustrate you point of view without being overly offensive.

Perhaps their idea has a hole in it and could potentially backfire, so show them! If anything, you will gain the trust of the individual in question.

Oh, one last thing: I try to take things in stride, myself, because it might come in handy, someday. Maybe, you should as well.

If none of this advice works out, then you can always check out another meeting place; that is in your right. Good luck.

uncle holmes

Sober 8 months and you're happy and doing well.

My suggestion is keep on doing what you're doing! Alcoholism can be a fatal disease and is known to be cunning, baffling, and powerful.

You may not realize it, but even though you don't have an official sponsor, you're getting some sponsorship just by going to meetings and listening to how other people stay sober.

Oh, and I wouldn't even bring it up at meetings anymore that you don't have a sponsor. If you don't bring it up at meetings, chances are that others won't either.

If you're staying sober, going to meetings, are happy and doing well, that's good enough for me!

2muchpain

Mr. David, I agree with a lot of what you have to say. AA just is not a friendly place for many people. I have experienced it myself and seen others have to deal with it. Despite what some hard core AA'ers say, it's a closed community only accesable to those that play in lock step to their beliefs, and those that are acc epted benefit a lot from it. And their are many stories that attest to that. There's nothing wrong with that. I just feel sorry for the people that are desperate to connect with other alcoholics only to be turned away or ignored. I have a lot of respect for AA cause it has helped many people change their lives for the better, but unfortunately because of it's hard line approach has left many people that are suffering looking for support in a way they can connect with. Luckily, there are many other programs that people can get involved in that fit their thinking and personal needs. In the past, many people have probably died because they weren't accepted in the AA community because they saw things differently. Not AA's fault. Hard cord AA people stick to what worked for them, not realizing that their way doesn't fit everybody. Sadly, they are willing to stick to their guns and indirectly continue to be part of the problem. I'm sure their are no statistics, but it's safe to say people have died because of AA's insistance on a one size fits all attitude that helps many, but alienates other people. No, I don't consider AA as a cult, but in order to get the most out of it, you have to believe what they believe. Might not be a cult, but it comes pretty close to being a religion. Believe in what I believe and you will be saved. Who knows; maybe they are right. For me, a structured program means eliminating others' points of view. Doesn't work for me but wish it did. John

fred59

David congrats on 8 months, being this is posted in alcoholism not 12 step remember AA is the big man on campus when it comes to recovery, hopefully that will change someday and people will have choice readily available like Smart Recovery and LifeRing . I had 8 years of continuous sobriety when I went to AA got a sponsor and worked the steps I just wanted to be able to say I had done the steps. No spiritual awakening! but I am glad I did them I still have the same sponsor 17 years later and that is a gift.
Bill W said in 1965 at an AA conference that the steps were suggestive only I know 2 people with close to 30 years of sobriety they go to AA meetings on a regular basis and have never done the steps and are non theists and perfectly happy, find your path remain open minded there is a great community of recovery out there for all of us.

fred59

I should add there are over 600 meetings in Santa Clara county every week so I have found one that works for me, lo key very small 5 to 10 people a week very supportive of nontheists like myself.
I also have assess to Smart and LifeRing I know not everyone has so many options

Eddiebuckle

Sobriety is not abstinence, it is living life happily without alcohol. We all eventually bump into our character defects thanks to life on life's terms - this is when a sponsor is invaluable. When that day comes, recognize that the problem isn't "out there", it's inside us and almost invariably we are unable to see that truth without outside perspective and guidance. This is what the 12 steps are about. First word of the first step: we.

Don't drink, stay honest, open minded, and willing... it will fall into place in good time.