skipper123

I have two girls, nine and 15 they do not like going to their fathers but its because he is a very difficult person to be around. Explosive and anger issues. My oldest feels very strongly about not seeing him and I think my youngest is just influenced by her. With that said, I want my girls to have a relationship with him because I believe girls need their fathers unless abuse is happening . If you could talk to your ex and tell her how important it is for your girls to grow up knowing and spending time with their father maybe she would see the light.. If she does not agree than I would consider legal action. The girls need to know that they are worth fighting for. You might want to mention to her that once they turn 18 and are free to make their own decisions the truth will come out and they will know that she lied to them and blocked them from seeing you. Once they realize this they may never forgive her. I have seen this happen. I hope things work out for you . Raising children is the hardest job ever!!!

zjw

To me that is VERY important. in my wifes case her father rolled over and died and to this day she has man / father issues and feels like shes not worth fighting for. He didnt care enough to tango with her mother etc.. he justed walked away. I dont wanna beat the guy up tho I kjnwo how her mother can be lol but at the same time there is something to be said about it.

Both people in the situation can make mistakes and all tho just do your best to make sure your side of the street is clean etc..

but yea its pretty important from what i've seen to a girl that her father is willing to go to bat for her.

KAD

I hope they do know how hard I'm fighting for them, especially the youngest. With 0 communication, it really does feel like she's living as though I don't exist, and I think that's sick and very destructive. Lack of money has sometimes stopped me in the past from moving forward with legal action. I still don't want it to come to that, and I still don't have the money, but these are my children and I believe what my ex is doing is wrong by them, never mind me.

Thanks for the Rocky clip, z! It really did hit close to home.

EndGameNYC

Thank you for this, Scott. Yes, GMO, this is what I was alluding to. I didn't become a doormat just because I hurt other people while I was drinking, and there's nothing sober about doing so.

Manipulation is the kind of thing you imagine that your wife and current husband may be up to. In the end, this will only hurt them and their relationships with your children and with each other. Unfortunately, and as usual, it's the children who suffer most.

KAD

Thanks for the clarification, EG. Fatigue, coupled with already agitated emotions, tends to put me on the defensive and negatively affect reading comprehension.

Tonight my sponsor reminded me to stay focused on my recovery, independent of anyone or anything else, no matter how big or important those people and/or things are to me. The value and quality of my life, and any relationships I will ever have, are totally dependent upon that. Of course he acknowledged that it's much easier said than done, especially when it comes to something as central to my core values as my children, but I won't be doing them or myself any good at all if I lose sight of the journey I'm on, and the progress I've made.

EndGameNYC

It will most certainly help for you to remind yourself of your progress and the hard work you've been doing to get there.

Delizadee

I will have to read this all tomorrow but I want to send you HUGE hugs. Your situation hits very close to home for me and I'm in the first year of this hell and anyhow.
Big big hugs. I will read tomorrow and respond, I probably won't have much advice but I can offer you support and understanding because I feel your pain deeply every day. My kids were my whole world and now my kids are divided.
What even is justice... there have been many times I've wondered what's the point.
Anyhow... here I am getting all emotional

Loekken

The bolded part... and people do that, all the time...

KAD

Yes, they do, and they will. I think it's not even just because non-addicts don't understand addiction, it's because alcoholism is such a destructive illness, not only in our individual lives but for all those who are in our lives. When we are in recovery - and odds are it isn't our first try - people are paranoid that the devil is going to rear it's ugly head again. They may or may not forgive, but it's pretty much impossible for them to forget. This, of course, doesn't pardon them of their own faults and shortcomings, or suggest that they're any less destructive. But that's their responsibility. All we can take care of is our side of the street. Sometimes that means we have to sever some ties, as well, if/when relationships become toxic or non-productive.

Loekken

Totally. Another example for me is 'friends' .. I have literally only a handful left, maybe less. People are so superficial and egocentric it's unreal.

KAD

Thanks, Delizadee. I'll look forward to hearing from you. Support is about all we can offer each other in situations like this, but it's no small offering. It's important, and it helps to know we aren't going through these things alone.

EndGameNYC

I've known many people who howl with pride that they don't care what other people think about them, but whose loud behaviors reveal the truth that lurks in the darkness. If ya gotta say it, it probably isn't true.

When things go well in sobriety -- meaning, we put in the internal work that's necessary to grow and change in meaningful ways -- none of this will matter. Sitting perfectly still solves nothing.

Unless we surrender our power to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of other people, peace of mind and a sense of well-being come from within.

At some point, if I find myself complaining about the same things that I did when I first got sober, it's time to make a change within myself, rather than continuing to attempt to manage other people's perceptions of who I am.

zjw

yeah I'm a target for my shortcomings being used against me. if anyone knows how to come accross as week by apoligizing directly or indirectly for some aspect of myself that i feel unconfident about its me ! it gets me every single time.

and as i've gained confidence in sobriety. there are some folks that still just cant wait to use me or my short comings as a foot stool to prop themselves up with.

IE remind me of some prior mistake or personality flaw so i cower and then they stomp. Its sadly a tactic many use in todays society to gain the upper hand in relations.

it doesnt have to be about alcoholism either could be any kind of aspect that your feeling unconfident about etc.. some folks just prey on this like magnets I dunno if they do it on purpose or are just good at it without trying or are even aware of what they are doing.

Its just something to watch out for. I know for me I had to start to figure out how to navigate these kinds of incidents when interacting with others.

EndGameNYC

This has not been my experience in life, at least not while I've been sober which, today, marks a total of thirty years. I work with many different people each day, have interviewed and worked with thousands -- yes, thousands -- of people from all different backgrounds during the course of my career. The perception that people are out to get us is -- for whatever reason -- both overblown and misplaced. And why would I be concerned about such a thing if it were true?

It is only we who can undermine our confidence and our thoughts and feelings about ourselves. The conviction that it is other people or some other force outside ourselves that cuts us down to size, or at least attempts to do so, is the cutting edge for people who are stuck in this belief system.

KAD

Wow! Impressive. I didn't realize you had that much sober time. I try to surround myself with people who have lots of time. My sponsor has 31 years. I just recently lost an old friend in the program - a 92 year old lady with 55 years of sobriety. I want to be among them, the ones who have left the misery and suffering of active alcoholism in the dust, for the rest of my life.

EndGameNYC

Thanks, GMO.

My history, like so many others who've relapsed following long-term sobriety, is that I stopped drinking for about twenty five years. AA was pretty much the only game in town, and I knew I couldn't do it on my own. Never tried to moderate and, honestly, shook my head when I first realized that people even attempt to do so. I lived a very good life during the time I was sober, though I stopped using AA for support after about thirteen years. I didn't have cravings from the moment I put down the drink, though I was not at all mentally sound when I first got sober. That took some time.

Career, PhD, money, romance, excitement, a second-degree black belt in a traditional style of karate (now working on my second BB in a different style), competition-level running, excellent health and so much more led me to believe that I'd be okay, no matter what. Up to that point in my life, the only thing I'd accomplished was to provoke a woman who loved me dearly, my ex-wife, to pick up and leave. That's it.

I didn't pick up a drink because of anything particular going on in my life. It was about what was (or wasn't) going on inside me. I was pretty much nonchalant about it, never made a conscious plan to drink, and not at all nervous or fearful when I did. I actually started smoking weed before I drank again, so I concluded that it wasn't such a big deal to drink at the time.

I was outwardly okay with it for a few months, able to take it or leave it without much effort, and then all the walls started falling down. It started to be every day for a time. Then it was every day, earlier each day for a while. And then, three years later, it was all day, every day, even at work. I destroyed everything in my life that meant anything to me. Again.

My sponsor died of cancer four weeks ago, same age as me, and I've been getting on in years. I'm more focused on pushing people to make meaningful changes sooner rather than later. I'm not for everyone, more like a itch that won't go away than the sophistication that an acquired taste implies. Even if my comments help a single person, that's a lot. And if it doesn't, maybe someone will remember something that I've said in a moment of despair down the line. And there are always moments of despair. It doesn't really matter.

Our lives begin much sooner than we realize, and we're always playing catch-up. Until we're not. We are not going to live forever. There will never be a better time or a time later on to live a good life. The life we're living is happening right now, and in every moment. If we're not now, right at this moment, doing things to live a better life, then we're wasting our time. We can get a lot of things back that we lost when we were drinking, but time (and often trust) is not one of them.

There are no rewards or punishments in life. Only consequences. Avoiding responsibility is just a nice way of saying that we choose to live and die a slow death. Sobriety is not about our plans to get sober. It's not about what we say, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what we believe about who and what we are when we're drinking. Sobriety has everything to do with what we do. Nothing more. We can all achieve sobriety and live a better life. Everything else is just an excuse.

I've drawn inspiration from this since the first time I watched it, eleven years ago. Hard truths, followed by a sad irony in his own life.

KAD

The purpose of this post is not to pity myself or elicit the same from anyone else, nor is it a passive aggressive attempt to coax "Happy Birthday" wishes from anyone. (Although, they are welcome! )

It is my 51st birthday, and it is another day of feeling emotionally crushed. Neither of my kids has said a word to me today. That's 2 birthdays in a row wherein they didn't even acknowledge me. The first one hurt, but I could kinda understand it, but this one... It's like their mother has not only taught them to be rude but to also be downright cruel. My 15 year old daughter, especially, knows better.

What can I do, though? My sponsor reminded me to not let my difficulties with my kids undercut the progress I've made on myself. It's like, after all the awesome things that have happened in the past 16 months, that one dark cloud still looms overhead. Gotta admit, it fills me with a sense of dread and foreboding to consider what I'm probably gonna have to do to address this. I'm nowhere near giving up.

Of course, I may get a belated surprise from my oldest daughter just as I did a few days after Father's Day. That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

Notimetoloose

Happy birthday, GMO...it is a wonderful gift in itself to spend it sober.
I am so sorry about your daughters, please do not take it too personally...they are very young and can be easily influenced..
I remember when I was estranged from my daughter, I just wanted my birthday to be over, her lack of acknowledgement hurt every minute until the day was over...we are no longer estranged and in one of life's ironies, we have both grown so much out of the pain...this sort of pain has a way of spotlighting what is important.
I wish you the best.

KAD

It's time for a followup to this ongoing saga. This past week, my ex-wife and I met with a mediator in court. As expected, it took longer than the allotted 2 hours and, also as expected, we are at an impasse. So the next move is to meet with my attorney again to determine the next step in the process.

Before it is suggested I need to better understand why my ex feels toward me as she does, please know that that is in my thoughts almost as frequently as what I perceive to be the feelings of my children. I do not know for certain how they feel because one says she doesn't really think about it, and the other still won't speak to me at all. All I've gotten from their mother or their counselor is that "she's angry." I've seen her once in a year and a half. There has been no other communication with her aside from that.

Part of my battle is opening the lines of communication with both children. I have been barred (by my ex only, not any legal decree) from all communication with my youngest, and only bi-weekly supervised meetings with my oldest. No communication outside of those meetings. Most importantly, I should add that my sponsor is 100% behind my efforts to build a relationship with my children, and was the first to encourage me to fight against my ex for my rights to do so. I don't want it suggested that I am not considering the feelings of my ex or my children, nor do I want it suggested that I'm looking for ways to "fix" whatever is bothering them. As their father, I just want to know what's going on with them, good, bad, or indifferent.

The only good that came of the mediation was that I got a small morsel of information about my youngest daughter. If only to hear that she's still angry, it was a sign of life. For the first time in almost 7 months, someone threw me a bone. When I offered to make amends with my ex back in April, she said she had already forgiven me and that bringing up the past would only do more harm than good. I respected her decision and thanked her for her consideration. However, during mediation it became patently obvious she hasn't forgiven anything and is still hanging onto resentments from decades ago. Granted, that is her problem to deal with, but she is passing it along by implication to the kids. I know her and I know her ways. As my youngest daughter frequently said, and as I have shared before, "Mama says things without actually saying them." That makes this a case of parental alienation.

So, that's where things stand as of now. I guess I should maybe put all this stuff in a blog or journal or whatever, but thought I'd just post it here for now.

Delizadee

I'm going through a lot of the same things. No communication, parental alienation, manipulation.
I'm so sorry about your birthday my friend and very big and happy birthday belatedly from me. I know the hurt of the missed phone calls. No phone call on my birthday. Nor mothers day. It frikken crushes me too.
It's making me cry just writing this.
So, I no longer have a birthday. I don't acknowledge mothers day and my kids birthdays were extremely hard for me.
I haven't seen my kids since the end of December last year.
It hurts a lot. As their father was never a support in their lives and made little effort to see them. I was mom and dad and supported them myself.
Blah. What does it matter? I put myself in this position and I'm very lucky to still have my youngest one with me.
I really feel your pain. I have a court date coming up too and I'm pushing for the supervised visitations to be lifted and have asked for set dates with supervised visits with my father. Just feels so f'ing ridiculous when I have a child in my care full time that I get jeked around with my visitation times and the rules set around it.
Frustration and despair. It's a daily battle.