Berrybean

Yes , but that's not to say that you can't get sober or recover without them.

Berrybean

Besides, your kid still is in your life. The onus is on you (and each of us as individuals ) to do what it takes so that that WE can be emotionally available and selfless enough to be good for THEM.

Berrybean

They didn't*Cause*it,
They can't*Cure*it,*
and...they can't*Control*it

Loekken

I feel as if I can't without them. My son is in my life, yes, and this is of course of greatest importance to me. I believe I am indeed ready to be everything for them, but my ex likely will not take me back, which leaves my life without much meaning. I don't want to go on without them; not trying to pass on responsibility, as I said, this is my emotion. I will do the best I can, but I doubt I will remain sober. Which is my decision, albeit a dangerous one.

Berrybean

You know, my feelings and emotions told me all kinds of stuff, and my AV used it all to its advantage. Wishful thinking, and self pity work against us. And you know that. Yet you're still choosing to listen to your AV and think about what you WANT over what your son and his mother NEED, by even considering a relapse. How is this being responsible for yourself? It isn't. It's just being a puppet to your emotions. And we don't have to do that. It is a choice.

I hope I don't sound too harsh and uncaring in the above. I only write so frankly because I know from experience that taking responsibility for myself, accepting my part in things, becoming willing to change how I dealt with things and deal with life on life's terms was when the cloud started lifting and I found some hope. Pinning my drinking and the responsibility for my recovery on other people and events just kept me trapped. I hope you will find your way free of the vortex soon, for your sake, and for your sons.

Gottalife

The authors of the big book had some pretty strong views on this.

" He clamors for this or that, claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for. Nonsense. Some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth: Job or no job - wife or no wife - we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence on God.

Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house."

Loekken

This isn't an attempt of wishful thinking nor self pitying. Again - it is what my emotion tells me, my gut feeling if you will. I never stopped thinking about my family's needs, except for the times I was blind drunk. In sobriety, my ambitions are clear and honorable.

But I do think it isn't always possible to control ones own emotions. Perhaps I'm just a spontaneous character too. I do know there are several underlying issues at work; since I wouldn't have let alcohol abuse harm myself or my surroundings, had I always felt good about myself. I feel better about myself when sober (naturally), so it does help everything for the better.

But I mean, we started drinking for a reason, I suppose. Which means it was to an extent always pinned on people and life events, a reaction, circumstance, thought pattern, actions. Separating an alcohol problem from people or events means denying interrelation between these, then, and I think that's a misconception.

Hawkeye13

I don't use any "regular" sobriety program but have built my own recovery over time.
I also am not an AA person or religious, and this is not a requirement
to find peace and to find your way back into life as a sober person.

I think expecting to feel good at 6 months after many years of hard drinking
is a rather unreasonable expectation. . . I felt better at 6 months than when drinking,
but still had a lot of physical and psychological work to do. I still do, but it's improving.

I also isolate, but have found other things to do with my time besides drink
or be around drinkers, or think of drinking.
What other things are you doing for yourself?

If you aren't working, and are living with your parents, you must be going
******* crazy just from that--too much time on your hands that once
was filled with work, family, or drinking.

Have you considered digging into the things which led to the drinking in the first place?
What kind of engagement can you begin with yourself to get in and get under
what's been eating you for a lifetime?

It isn't easy and there are many ways to get "at" things.
What are you doing to focus on recovery and not just not drinking?

Berrybean

Exactly. We always pinned it on people and external events. There is a relationship, but the relationship lies in our reaction to those things. Our reaction to events and our emotions. We can't control the emotions coming. But what we can learn to do is a stop velcroing ourselves to every emotion that comes along and acting on it like it rules us. We are not our emotions. They come and they go. We do not need to be their puppet. This is why so many people in recovery get a lot out of meditation. It helps us learn to do just that. And that is not the same as faking it. It is acknowledging that the emotion is there, and working through it (through acceptance and choosing the next right action) and knowing that it WILL pass. Because they always do.

Hawkeye13

Meditation has also been a huge help in my recovery--we aren't our emotions,
as BB says, but we often forget that in the midst of the pain, and also that they will pass and change
given time.

Loekken

Thanks for a good post. You ask some good and useful questions too.

By the face of it, or as things are right now, I see that I would indeed have to build my own recovery too, independent from AA or the like. As soon as treatment has a religious or cult like feel to it, I back off. This is very much my very own, private problem as I see it, and as I have pointed out too, I am usually very reluctant in opening up about it to others. This part has been improving though (opening up), which is also why I'm back here at SR, for instance.

And yes, I do very well realize I might be trying to push myself ahead of time here - half a year sober isn't really that much after all, and it is actually just these past few weeks I have genuinely started to feel better and really improving physically and mentally. I still feel very down and depressed many times during the day, it comes and goes and I'm not so much in control of it. The craving is there a lot, but I'm on the antabuse as an immediate deterrent (I have been for the entire 6 months, on and off, without touching a drop).

What I am doing for myself is not so much I would say, other than 'staying sober'. I eat healthy, exercise lightly everyday (long walks usually) and my sleep has improved vastly. I haven't slept better than I do these days since like forever. My sleep was usually drunken or even black out 'sleep' several times weekly. I know quality sleep is very important for mental well being, of course, and I must say I just enjoy sleeping 8 hours straight every damn night and waking up completely well rested. It is a new experience. But the depression is still lurking and then I remind myself life still sucks, even though I have certainly improved my life just by the look of it. But it's all the remorse, regret, guiltiness, bad conscience, etc. nagging me of course.

Living with my parents bothers me immensely. I can't wait to get out, but it's a financial question and it takes time. I don't work, so I'm left with tons of time on my own without being able to drink(!) and yes - it does drive me bat crazy at times. I try to stay busy, here, other places on the web, walks, meals, shopping, cooking, music, writing emails to friends, job applications, talking to my ex, always taking care of my personal appearance, etc. But I want to work, and hopefully I will get employment soon (working intensely at that).

All of the underlying issues are very deep and personal, and I am willing to go further into these things here under the right circumstances. They are not even that extraordinary, family stuff, psychological issues, depression, my love life, etc. All normal life situations you should say with stress you have to deal with going through life and I handled them by drinking, mostly. My father was an alcoholic and it killed him 9 years ago, I was 25 at the time. Since then, my own alcoholism escalated. These are all things I have discussed at length during my treatment sessions, of course. My father's story is very crucial to mine. Has always been. I was just 2 when my parents divorced because of his alcoholism.

KAD

I understand very well the temptation to hinge my sobriety upon certain conditions being met. I have suffered much loss as a result of my drinking, but most drastic of all has been the loss of contact with my children. Even though I've been divorced for nearly 6 years, I still had regular contact with my kids. Now, I only see the oldest one maybe once a week, supervised, and I haven't had any communication at all with my youngest in well over a year. I was quite close to them, as close as a practicing alcoholic could be, and now there's just an empty hole where they were. There have been times their absence has felt like my soul was suffocating, times I've wondered how I'm going to make it.

But I have learned that no matter what comes my way, with or without a relationship with my kids, if I don't put my sobriety first and foremost above all else, nothing will work out right. Instead of making my sobriety conditional, my very life is conditional upon it. The quality of that life for me, personally, consists of applying the 12 steps to every aspect of my life. I am the last person who would have believed that would work, but it is. It's not the only way, but it is a way, if you are willing.

Loekken

I sincerely feel for you about the situation with your kids - it is really the most painful aspect of it all when children are involved. I would go so far to say that if children are not involved, then what are you even whining about?

My boy is 4 and just today I was struggling to recall much from his very early childhood, from his birth up until a year ago. There are so many holes in my memory, it's terrible. And it haunts my every day that I don't remember his infancy better than I do. It's torture.

He lives in another country but it is only less than 2 hours flight away. I spent time with him a couple weeks ago and I'm planning to see him again in September. So for now I see him circa every second month, for a week or so. I know I miss out on a lot and it is singlehandedly the most difficult part of my everyday life. I mean, if he wasn't involved, I wouldn't even be in all this pain.

KAD

God, how I know how you feel. It brings tears to my eyes to even think of it. Sometimes I can't even take looking at pictures of kids friends of mine post on Facebook. I took nearly a year for me to even be able to look at pictures of my own. Now, I have them proudly displayed on my mantle again. Does it still hurt? You bet it does, but I still love them more than anyone or anything on earth, and I will never give up hope.

But one thing I know with absolute certainty: If I drink again, I risk totally destroying any remaining chance of being in their lives again. Not only that, I risk finishing the job of destroying my own life. My sobriety cannot be conditional upon rebuilding my relationship with them, but the reverse is most definitely true.

silentrun

It sounds like you want to be sober but are unsure if you can pull it off. Is that right or do you really just want to drink? After 6 months I think you have earned a bit of trust back. You absolutely can remain sober. The reason I had a turning point at 6 months was because it took me that long to wrap my head around the prospect that all of my drinking days were behind me. I felt relieved...goodbye says it all. Few times can a person be totally confident they made the right choice about something. This one's a no brainer.

Loekken

That is a pretty accurate assessment. Make no mistake, sobriety is good for me and I just wish I had done all this way, way earlier. I would have saved my marriage and been able to be a father to my child every day of his young life. This chance has all but passed me now and it is a major threat in terms of risk of relapse as things are now.

I mentioned in my opening post that I do miss drinking, and I do. I sort of stopped not to mess up my life completely and lose all contact to my ex and child. I gave up the bottle for now because I had to. Things were going downhill, fast. I almost died, remember (I mentioned it briefly in a previous post in this thread).

I would say a main difference in my life at this stage is, that I have kept the bottle at a safe distance for a considerable period of time, and that it is now truly my own choice only whether I keep it this way. If I go back to drinking, I am well aware of the risks and possible disastrous consequences. There is no 'good excuse' anymore, other than my personal hurt and tragedy. It should be an obvious and easy choice, as you point out too. But it's a tough one for me. I think part of me (my alcoholic voice, probably) still tells me that I'm not really an alcoholic. I just had problems and ended up solving them with the drink, and the drink ended up becoming a problem.

I believe my drinking has been so deeply intertwined with the fate of my father and my later relationship to my now previous wife and I can't let go of that thought. That without a lot of the pain involved with my father and later relationship to my wife, all this drinking would never, ever have gotten so out of control. I would never have become so addicted to that shit. But I did, and now I'm an 'alcoholic' in the eyes of this world and the people who know me.

silentrun

Do you think if your dad had sobered up when you were 4 that you would be in this situation now? Did you ever tell yourself that if you were a better son your dad would have tried harder to get clean? Sometimes I think we are just cast into repeating patterns not of our choosing. Your boy is only 4, still time to put this right. Could you move to that country he is in?

GratefulJunkie

"Your gut feeling, if you will" is YOUR ALCOHOLISM. This disease wants you dead, and will tell you anything it has to, to keep you away from the true freedom of actual sobriety.

"In sobriety, my ambitions are clear and honorable." That's just BS honestly. Your ambitions are all about you, and getting what you want. YOU want your family back....do you think your ex wants to be around a drunk, OR a sober man who is miserable? Do you think your son wants an alcoholic father? Or a sober, but miserable, dad? It's all about what you want, what you know, what you think or feel or have experienced. And like it or not, CLEARLY nothing you think/feel/know/do has been working for you....so when does it stop?! When do you realize that YOUR OWN IDEAS ARE ****. YOU ARENG CAPABLE OF A GOOD IDEA RIGHT NOW.

"But I mean...we started drinking for a reason...etc etc" that's called blaming others. I used to claim I started drinking bcuz I was sexually assaulted as a child....that's a good EXCUSE to start drinking, it's a good REASON to start drinking, but it's still just blaming somebody else for my own alcoholism. I'm an alcoholic, and whatever led me to alcohol doesn't matter. What matters is taking responsibility for my own actions and doing something different to better myself. And once I'm better, once I can love myself, THEN I am ready to receive love. Then I'm worthy of my family. Worthy of a job, car house, etc. as long as I am grateful and humble and don't forget that I don't DESERVE any of those things. And not one single thing in my life can/will EVER keep me sober. And if you can't accept that, you will take your alcoholism to the "bitter end". It's just a fact.

Dee74

I understand that many of us are passionate about recovery but let's keep the comments constructive thanks.

Sharing my own experience - sharing what worked for me - has always been preferable to me than sharing my opinions on someone else's experience.

Dee
Moderator
SR

Gottalife

I find the truth is usually constructive, though perhaps I might try and sugar coat it. I need to be careful with the amount of sugar for if there is too much, I might be in danger of becoming an enabler, rather than a genuine friend.

It is never easy to break down denial. A direct attempt to expose the truth, especially after a number of sugar coated ones have failed to make an impression, might be preferable to the enevitable outcome if the denial continues.

In the end, we make the effort, but the result is out of our hands.