Amends
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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I just want to thank everyone for their great advice and undertanding. I am truly greatful that there is a community of people who understand. Everyone was right on and reminded me of the things i needed to hear. . I also hope others get something outta this topic as well. Im feeling a ton better today just by reading all your e,s,h..
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
My experience was, some relationships were just not fixable. The serenity prayer has it about right here, the wisdom to know the difference part - I caused harm to some people, they came to view me differently even after I quit drinking, and I cannot change this. People drift apart even with no substance abuse issues involved, but maybe it hurts more when we know we caused it but can't fix it.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK 
My experience was, some relationships were just not fixable. The serenity prayer has it about right here, the wisdom to know the difference part - I caused harm to some people, they came to view me differently even after I quit drinking, and I cannot change this. People drift apart even with no substance abuse issues involved, but maybe it hurts more when we know we caused it but can't fix it.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
Posts: 4,136
Gonzo-Hang in there, buddy. We've got your back. I totally understand what it's like to lose friends, close friends and loved ones due to addiction...it's hard, it really hurts. And, it especially hurts too when you have worked so hard to be sober and make amends, but it's not quite enough. I lost a very good friend due to my drinking episodes and going off on them when I had been drinking and saying things I entirely regretted afterwards. I cannot take any of those words back, though I wish I could...it's like all the things you might be thinking, but should never say and then you drink, it lowers your inhibitions and you say things that might have some truth to them, but shouldn't be said because all they do is cause hard feelings and tear down instead of build up.
Having said that: I know plenty of people who say mean things stone cold sober and never having a substance addiction in their life...that in no way justified what one does while drinking, but in a way, it just doesn't seem fair either!
You may never feel totally forgiven by the people you most want forgiveness from because we hope that real, complete forgiveness will RESTORE the relationship, but in some cases it doesn't and that's the sad part. I cannot think about this too much or I find myself getting into a funk.
Having said that: I know plenty of people who say mean things stone cold sober and never having a substance addiction in their life...that in no way justified what one does while drinking, but in a way, it just doesn't seem fair either!
You may never feel totally forgiven by the people you most want forgiveness from because we hope that real, complete forgiveness will RESTORE the relationship, but in some cases it doesn't and that's the sad part. I cannot think about this too much or I find myself getting into a funk.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by teatreeoil007
Gonzo-Hang in there, buddy. We've got your back. I totally understand what it's like to lose friends, close friends and loved ones due to addiction...it's hard, it really hurts. And, it especially hurts too when you have worked so hard to be sober and make amends, but it's not quite enough. I lost a very good friend due to my drinking episodes and going off on them when I had been drinking and saying things I entirely regretted afterwards. I cannot take any of those words back, though I wish I could...it's like all the things you might be thinking, but should never say and then you drink, it lowers your inhibitions and you say things that might have some truth to them, but shouldn't be said because all they do is cause hard feelings and tear down instead of build up.
Having said that: I know plenty of people who say mean things stone cold sober and never having a substance addiction in their life...that in no way justified what one does while drinking, but in a way, it just doesn't seem fair either!
You may never feel totally forgiven by the people you most want forgiveness from because we hope that real, complete forgiveness will RESTORE the relationship, but in some cases it doesn't and that's the sad part. I cannot think about this too much or I find myself getting into a funk.
Having said that: I know plenty of people who say mean things stone cold sober and never having a substance addiction in their life...that in no way justified what one does while drinking, but in a way, it just doesn't seem fair either!
You may never feel totally forgiven by the people you most want forgiveness from because we hope that real, complete forgiveness will RESTORE the relationship, but in some cases it doesn't and that's the sad part. I cannot think about this too much or I find myself getting into a funk.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
There is nothing unnatural about having expectations about things. Even when we attempt to manage our expectations, desire does not die an easy death, and the experience of motivation would be hollow without them. As long as there remains a possibility that something can happen that I desire, that something I can achieve is available to me, I will always have expectations. Expectations can age or even die of old age, lose their priority or not match what's currently available to me in my current reality. But there is always hope, even when I deny there is not.
Despair resides on the same continuum as hope, which is why when we risk hope or fulfillment we become increasingly vulnerable to despair. And despair is always nothing more than having surrendered our deepest desires, providing the impetus for either finding the courage to do what we need to do or living in a continuous denial of that which we truly want.
I learned a secret that not everyone learns in life, many years ago when someone I loved quickly died after the sudden diagnosis of a deadly disease: Tragedy doesn't happen to other people; it happens to you. This made me sadder in the extreme but perhaps also wiser for the acknowledgement.
I also learned the dangers of wanting a thing too much or too desperately in life, but I rarely allowed this to stop me from the attempt. And for someone beaten down by living, true love can be a desperate thing. I'd much prefer having failed a thousand times in the attempt than wondering about what might have been.
Despair resides on the same continuum as hope, which is why when we risk hope or fulfillment we become increasingly vulnerable to despair. And despair is always nothing more than having surrendered our deepest desires, providing the impetus for either finding the courage to do what we need to do or living in a continuous denial of that which we truly want.
I learned a secret that not everyone learns in life, many years ago when someone I loved quickly died after the sudden diagnosis of a deadly disease: Tragedy doesn't happen to other people; it happens to you. This made me sadder in the extreme but perhaps also wiser for the acknowledgement.
I also learned the dangers of wanting a thing too much or too desperately in life, but I rarely allowed this to stop me from the attempt. And for someone beaten down by living, true love can be a desperate thing. I'd much prefer having failed a thousand times in the attempt than wondering about what might have been.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
There is nothing unnatural about having expectations about things. Even when we attempt to manage our expectations, desire does not die an easy death, and the experience of motivation would be hollow without them. As long as there remains a possibility that something can happen that I desire, that something I can achieve is available to me, I will always have expectations. Expectations can age or even die of old age, lose their priority or not match what's currently available to me in my current reality. But there is always hope, even when I deny there is not.
Despair resides on the same continuum as hope, which is why when we risk hope or fulfillment we become increasingly vulnerable to despair. And despair is always nothing more than having surrendered our deepest desires, providing the impetus for either finding the courage to do what we need to do or living in a continuous denial of that which we truly want.
I learned a secret that not everyone learns in life, many years ago when someone I loved quickly died after the sudden diagnosis of a deadly disease: Tragedy doesn't happen to other people; it happens to you. This made me sadder in the extreme but perhaps also wiser for the acknowledgement.
I also learned the dangers of wanting a thing too much or too desperately in life, but I rarely allowed this to stop me from the attempt. And for someone beaten down by living, true love can be a desperate thing. I'd much prefer having failed a thousand times in the attempt than wondering about what might have been.
Despair resides on the same continuum as hope, which is why when we risk hope or fulfillment we become increasingly vulnerable to despair. And despair is always nothing more than having surrendered our deepest desires, providing the impetus for either finding the courage to do what we need to do or living in a continuous denial of that which we truly want.
I learned a secret that not everyone learns in life, many years ago when someone I loved quickly died after the sudden diagnosis of a deadly disease: Tragedy doesn't happen to other people; it happens to you. This made me sadder in the extreme but perhaps also wiser for the acknowledgement.
I also learned the dangers of wanting a thing too much or too desperately in life, but I rarely allowed this to stop me from the attempt. And for someone beaten down by living, true love can be a desperate thing. I'd much prefer having failed a thousand times in the attempt than wondering about what might have been.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
The book is always a good point of reference. " Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be."
It kinda says that we have to be prepared to take what comes.
The business of amends is about restitution and healing. We can damage people in all sorts of ways, not just materially, and sometimes the damage runs very deep. Our amends is about doing what we can to rectify that.
I remember making amends to an ex. I did it because I had no hope of overcoming drinking if I refused. The approach had to be made through a third party, and my ex set the terms.
She insisted that her father, mother, sister, brother inlaw (who made the approach for me), brother and her fiance had to be present. I ofcourse was alone, well not quite alone, God was with me. I thanked them for agreeing to see me and explained what it was all about, particularly what my problem was (alcoholism) and what I was doing about it, the 12 steps, and why it was important for me to make amends..i.e I must do my utmost to repair the damage I caused. I confessed/comfronted my behaviour, showed that I knew it was wrong, and explained how I was changing in order to never repeat such behaviour. I asked what I could do to make amends to her and her
family, and if they could find it in their hearts to forgive me. They did, and we had a certain reconciliation to the level of friendship that we still have today.
The amazing thing was the effect on my ex, and possibly the reason she wanted her whole family there, and her fiance. Partly, she was afraid of me, but mainly she had always thought that there was something wrong with her that caused or contributed to my behaviour, that somehow she was at fault. The healing was for her the realisation that it wasn't her fault and there was nothing wrong with her, and her family got to see what the real situation had been.
She has been happily married to that fiance for many years and now has the happy life she always deserved.
None of that was for my benefit, the purpose was to heal her injuries. There was no ulterior motive other than doing what is required for permanent recovery. Yet I suppose the healing was mutual.
It kinda says that we have to be prepared to take what comes.
The business of amends is about restitution and healing. We can damage people in all sorts of ways, not just materially, and sometimes the damage runs very deep. Our amends is about doing what we can to rectify that.
I remember making amends to an ex. I did it because I had no hope of overcoming drinking if I refused. The approach had to be made through a third party, and my ex set the terms.
She insisted that her father, mother, sister, brother inlaw (who made the approach for me), brother and her fiance had to be present. I ofcourse was alone, well not quite alone, God was with me. I thanked them for agreeing to see me and explained what it was all about, particularly what my problem was (alcoholism) and what I was doing about it, the 12 steps, and why it was important for me to make amends..i.e I must do my utmost to repair the damage I caused. I confessed/comfronted my behaviour, showed that I knew it was wrong, and explained how I was changing in order to never repeat such behaviour. I asked what I could do to make amends to her and her
family, and if they could find it in their hearts to forgive me. They did, and we had a certain reconciliation to the level of friendship that we still have today.
The amazing thing was the effect on my ex, and possibly the reason she wanted her whole family there, and her fiance. Partly, she was afraid of me, but mainly she had always thought that there was something wrong with her that caused or contributed to my behaviour, that somehow she was at fault. The healing was for her the realisation that it wasn't her fault and there was nothing wrong with her, and her family got to see what the real situation had been.
She has been happily married to that fiance for many years and now has the happy life she always deserved.
None of that was for my benefit, the purpose was to heal her injuries. There was no ulterior motive other than doing what is required for permanent recovery. Yet I suppose the healing was mutual.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
"...Rule of thumb, that I have been told, is that ex girlfriends or boyfriends are generally amends best left to just living a good life..."
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by NoelleR
"...Rule of thumb, that I have been told, is that ex girlfriends or boyfriends are generally amends best left to just living a good life..."
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
DOS: 08-16-2012
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 365
Originally Posted by NoelleR
"...Rule of thumb, that I have been told, is that ex girlfriends or boyfriends are generally amends best left to just living a good life..."
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
Boy, am I glad I was never told this. I would have used it as a way to get out of doing some amends that, like gottalife mentioned, were absolutely necessary for my sobriety/recovery
As AA warns against, I would have been talking prudence, while practicing evasion....................
(o:
...."The only exceptions we will make will be cases where our disclosure would cause actual harm..."
The quote above, from the Big Book, says not to make amends if the other party may be harmed. Again, this is why you discuss the amends with your sponsor so they can help you figure out the amends to make and the ones best left alone.
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