stillpooh19

One of the things that has bothered me most in recovery is people saying, "Maybe you were anxious and depressed before and suppressed it with alcohol." Alcohol IS a depressant, therefore, it would more than likely trigger depression if it were there all along and because of it's affects on the central nervous system, I would have likely experienced anxiety as well.

My doctor was the one who told me I was in PAWS and explained what to expect for up to two years, so it does exist. If you take the time to research you will find tons of articles including peer reviewed research on PAWS. The bad part is many people in PAWS are misdiagnosed with all sorts of mental illnesses and put on yet another addictive substance from which they may have to go through withdrawal hell.

At 8 months things are slowly getting better, but this is REAL! Best wishes to you all and thanks for this info Matt!

Jack465

There's another point I thought might be worth mentioning. I'm not sure if this was already brought up or not.

It has been my experience that if you have kindling (ie: your withdrawal gets worse each time you drink again), then this not only affects the acute withdrawal phase but also PAWS as well.

I didn't know about kindling until I already had it pretty badly. My PAWS symptoms have been far worse and lasted far longer since my last relapse than they ever did before that. The symptoms have been absolutely brutal since then, probably at least twice as bad as before.

PAWS can and will get worse if you drink again.

JeffreyAK

I don't think I've met anyone who was an alcohol addict (off on the end of the alcohol use disorder scale) who did not go through a post-acute withdrawal period, with some of many possible symptoms that vary somewhat between individuals. I don't know if doctors and scientists can explain it at a chemical level, but millions of former addicts can't all be wrong.

ramennoodles

I'm so glad I found this thread. PAWS is very real, I can assure you. I'm currently 10+ months sober and suffering from severe protracted withdrawal symptoms. I made a post about it in the forum a while back, but I felt like I was kind of being brushed off.

For the record, I had an anxiety disorder before I started drinking. In fact, that's the reason I started drinking in the first place, to calm my frayed nerves after a hard day of work. After quitting drinking, however, my anxiety is absolutely off the charts bad. It's so bad now that I can't even get a haircut without having an anxiety attack. It's even happened to me a couple of times while driving, which was very scary. My symptoms include:

- Insomnia
- Anxiety
- Nausea
- Restless legs
- Depression
- Craving junk food (and weight gain)

I'm self employed. If I wasn't, I don't even think I could work a regular job right now. That's how bad it is.

Jack465

I'm at 8 months. I still don't feel anywhere near 100% yet, but I definitely feel better than I did at 2-3 months.

Do all of you have brief periods where you feel almost 100% recovered only to have symptoms return just as bad as ever? These only last maybe an hour for me, but my understanding is that they get longer and longer the further into recovery you get.

Ariesagain

I'm at eight and a half months and really needed to read this thread today. I have a bunch of very high stress stuff going on, true, but I was able to feel fairly zen about it most of the summer. But the last ten days I have been a reactive anxious mess, no matter how much exercise, sleep, healthy food, and stretching I've done.

I just want my brain to STFU for an hour...and that's the only part of alcohol I miss. But I'm not going back there.

Thanks for this thread.

silentrun

I had a pretty good bout around the 9 month mark. I remember getting so sick of the brain spins that first year. I named it "recovery fatigue".

For me it was more of a 2 week period where symptoms would start coming in and I would have a couple days of hell and then they would start waning out. For me I think my brain was rewiring or something because after it was over I would notice increased cognitive abilities immediately after that 2 week period.

The 9 month one was a good one. I felt like Dorothy in the wizard of Oz going from black and whit into technicolor. That was the last really bad bout I had.

ramennoodles

Sort of. I wouldn't say I have periods where I feel near 100% better, but I do have periods where the symptoms aren't as severe. It's almost like the symptoms come in waves. I'll feel a little better for a while, and then it all hits me full-force again.

Wave after wave after wave.

August252015

I can relate to almost every thing in the OP. I had severe PAWS and at almost 7mo (2 days!), I feel healthy and all my tests are normal. I thought of it as all of these symptoms "rolling" through and out of my body. There are some things that happen now that might be lingering PAWS, might be "normal" life and fatigue and all that- doesn't matter but the damage to my body was severe and I am testament that there is no competition over how much alcohol was "drinking a lot" and that every body handles the getting truly sober and recovered part differently. We CAN get better- the human body is simply amazing- but it takes TIME; for some of us that is a process that is quite painful, and patience testing.

Good dr support is crucial. I am glad for the people who have the "wow, two weeks sober and I feel GREAT!" experience. I am also glad that I was on the brink of death, given a year to 18 mo to live if I didn't stop, and went through what I did to get well because I do not take my new life for granted, EVER. I don't relive it all, but I do indeed remember it- and I will never do anything to cause that again. My hope is that no one takes a "that wasn't so bad" experience to test the waters again.

tekink

I'm just begining my journey. I made it 8 weeks earlier this summer and have bounced back and forth a few times and am just at day 5 now.

PAWS is a big concern for me and I know we all will have different experiences with it.

I've only read the first few posts but will read the entire thread. Of course having a place for people to share their own PAWS experiences is a good thing!

I do have experience with PAWS but not from an alcohol viewpoint. My Dr had me on an opiate regimen that would make a junky jealous. The PAWS from that nearly wrecked my brain before I finally understood what was going on. In fact 30 months later I still have some PAWS from that, but I'm down to the last one, insomnia (which could last 6 years or more). The first year was awful but most things cleared up after 18 months for me and that drug.

At least alcohol withdrawal won't make me feel like I have insomnia I already have it. In fact once I get to about 5 or 6 days sober I actually sleep better than if I were drinking.


PAWS is mentioned in one of the stickies on this board but it has a link that isn't in anyway PAWS related!

I'd link right to that post if my post count was high enough.

Some folks might not have PAWS, some folks might have extreme PAWS and none of us will experience it the same.

No one should discount the effect of PAWS just because they didn't have it.

I just hope the brain fog doesn't last months on end.

tekink

That's how PAWS works, the symptoms come and go over time, sometimes fast, sometimes they stay. Ideally the intervals between periods for whatever symptoms come and go gets longer.

JesseJe

Really appreciate this thread!

At just over 6 weeks sober, this is the longest I have not had a drink in over 10 years. I have to say that mostly I feel incredible (compared to how I was feeling before) and my gratitude for my sobriety and this decision outweighs any horrible experiences I've had to endure as a result of my years of alcohol and drug abuse.

That said my symptoms include, and are experienced pretty much every other day are:

Exhaustion for hours at a time, unable and/or unwilling to move
Inexplicable feeling of dread
Anxiety, every thought creates a worry of some kind
Complete lack of motivation or drive to complete even the simplest tasks
Extreme irritability and anger
Rapid cycling mood swings
Disassociation
Derealization
Food cravings
Overall sadness and hopelessness
Clumsiness
Paranoia and disdain for others

This is in contrast to some very good and very wonderful days/moments which I hope to experience more of as the time between today and my last drink grows.

soap

I think that I might also suffer from it. I relapsed 100's of times before getting sober for over a year so maybe that has something to do with it.

My 1st year of sobriety I kind of masked symptoms with caffeine and sugar. But I was drinking over 2 pots of coffee a day with sugar boosts. I felt like I was replacing beer with a slightly less damaging combo. But I was still getting high in a way that didn't feel good or right.

After quitting everything is when I really start to struggle. Complete exhaustion combined with not being able to relax or shut down. Anxiety is terrible where even talking to friends can be difficult. And bouts of depression are common. Even watching a movie is a chore. I have to pause over and over because it is difficult to stay concentrated or engaged. Restless leg syndrome goes through the the roof at night. I usually wake multiple times having to do intense cardio on stationary bike to somewhat calm muscles for sleep. Usually my head feels like a soggy newspaper and occasionally my nose burns when I can't sleep.

This went on for 3 months until I caved and went back to caffeine and sugar. It felt very similar to a relapse of alcohol. That latest for another 3 months and now I'm back to complete sobriety.

I continue to go to river and ocean everyday hoping exercise and nature will eventually help things. And recently started yoga and meditation. My plan is to continue complete sobriety hoping paws feeling eventually goes away like ops post suggest that there is light at end of tunnel. There are rare instances when I feel at peace so there is hope.

Jack465

I do that all the time too. And rewinding to watch parts again because I lost concentration.

Me too. I'm starting to feel more optimistic about this whole thing. That's probably because my symptoms are slowly improving, but in early recovery I was a complete mess, I used to get so frustrated about my symptoms and think "why me" and "what did I do to deserve this". But now I feel more at peace with it. It took me 5 years to get myself into this hole, so it actually makes perfect sense that the healing process is going to be slow.

tekink

I know those feelings as well. I call it brain fog.

Our brain chemistry adjusts to the alcohol, you take the alcohol away and end up with a chemical imbalance in your brain until it can adjust again.

Kind of like our digestive system adjusts to alcohol and when you take the alcohol away your body gets tweaked by it.

I find rationalizing it helps a little.

graced333

So grateful to read this thread. After over 8 months sober from the booze, I feel recovered. The benzo habit has been a different story! Little did I know how dependent I was on those little pills... but the good news is, that although I still am experiencing so many of the PAW symptoms described here, I know I will never return to the dullness that was me before. My children, grandchildren and me are enjoying the present me. (if that makes any sense!) Thank you ALL for sharing!

carlingford

Super thread ttbon thanks, on 38 days myself now and suffering Paws big time, especially with cogitative stuff and sleeping. It just hit me last Saturday afternoon, was well up to then but then thought I was going to die (after 35 days) with severe aching pains all over my body and head going crazy, my wife wanted to bring me to ER. I knew what it was even though never had before as was never this sober for so long in 25 years maybe 30 years. Its calmed down the next day by say 30% and I took it easy. Funny thing I thought as I was playing in the park with my 2 boys, I saw the full moon and remember reading here or somewhere that paws comes in cycles like 30, 60, 90 days etc. like the lunar cycles, I thought back to when I quit and thought that if I subtracted the acute withdrawal from period my sober period it amounted to roughly 30 days and thought hey I have hit the lunar cycle bang on. It was really scary and all I thought about was my family and who would provide for their future if I was not here, very sobering indeed. its now Tuesday and still having problems in work as I work in office and mental job so have been trying to cover up mistakes and hope it gets better as I cannot even to begin how to explain what is wrong with me as they would laugh in disbelief if I told them. I still have major tremors in my midriff, get tingling in different places, dis-attachment, headaches now and again with anxiety and panic and cold hot feelings, I woke up Sunday night with a massive synapsis which scared the .... out of me. Last night I had a terrible nightmare with the most scary faces in front of me, like the most scary Halloween faces you ever could imagine. It woke me up big time. I am now 38 days clean and seem to be getting better slowly day by day, I know its early days yet, I don't need AA or other help to get me to quit, I do not have cravings either. This experience has scared me so much I will never drink again or ever change my mind....would you after this hell?. I hope you comment on my story and if you have any advice or comments for me I would really appreciate it, thanks for reading. take care.

ramennoodles

I'd love to hear an update from the original poster on how he's doing. He should be over two years sober now.

JamesfrmEngland

Do you not think it's psychosomatic in a lot of cases?

tekink

I think it's chemistry and this is logical. I typed something similar in another thread. I went through PAWS from opioid withdrawal, which is where I learned about it. PAWS from that was often physical, for example I had to carry baby wipes with me for over 6 months because I spewed foamy bile out of my butt at least 10 times a day. It's the opposite of the constipation that drug causes.

Basically your body's chemistry slowly adjusts itself to function properly (as properly as it can anyway) with all the alcohol/drug your putting in it every day. Over time your body and brain chemistry adjusts to dealing with that alcohol so it can go in doing what it needs to do. When you suddenly stop drinking you take away the alcohol your body has adjusted to being there. This throws your body's systems off as it's no longer in the expected state.

Basically you've put your body into a chemical imbalance and it takes time for it to adjust to the new normal.

I suppose we don't realize the changes as they are happening to begin with as we are drunk all the time.

Everyone does experience PAWS differently as we all have different compositions.