behindblueyes

I have a very angry 9 year old. I used to blame anything on the opportunity to drink but some days she just cuts me right to the core.

She comes home from school sometimes calling me stupid, a bad mom, says I do nothing all day (I work), and has come up with new ways to manipulate. She has no idea what alcoholism really is since I only have part custody of her and do not drink on the weekends I have her. Also, she has Asperger's Syndrome and ADD so she always thought I was just super tired when hungover (sad really). I was entirely sober my entire pregnancy.

I have been sober for quite some time now and her dad and I are divorced. We divorced when she was 2. However, she seems to resent me more even though I have never brought another man into this house. Dad has a new woman. She considers me a "loser" (her words) and if I were to ever call my father or mother that at her age, I would be sailing through the wall. I have never hit her like my dad hit me. Her father left when I got my first DUI and I couldn't drink with him anymore.

Anyway, this morning, she set out to make sure I knew she was in charge. I politely asked her to brush her hair and she threw everything around in her room, rolled her eyes and screamed at me. I calmly said I would see her outside and she never showed. I had to drag her out of the house while she screamed how much she hated me and so on.

I got her to the bus stop. I told her I loved her and she slammed the car door. The next time I will see her is Sunday and I am entertaining the thought of drinking. I have been crying since she left. I know I won't drink but rejection is a huge trigger. I do nothing but show her love and am not bringing men around. I am putting my life entirely on hold for her and sobriety.

I know she is only 9 but if I have to deal with her at 14-16 I can't even imagine what it'll be like. I take her to a therapist every week. I have her on medication. Could our drinking (my ex and I till age 2) have caused this anger? Maybe me being hungover? We still would go running and outside even if I was sick. Thoughts on this?

ScottFromWI

I don't think anything you describe would be considered abnormal for a 9 year old. I think there is most definitely there could be resentment and anger from your drinking. Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for, she most likely knew something was amiss back then, most of them do. She also most likely has some anger and resentment having to split her time between 2 divorced parents - even if it happened a long time ago it's still difficult for her.

Physically engaging her and dragging her out of the house will most definitely cause problems too - today and down the road. Sometimes it's best to simply walk away from the situation.

You mention that you "have her on meds" and take her to a therapist. Do you participate in the sessions? You might want to consider that as well as it's a 2-way relationship.

The bottom line with kids though is that there are going to be difficult times no matter what. Part of growing up is learning to be independent. So learning to deal with these difficult times is a must for all of us with children.

madgirl

I wouldn't take anything personally. At all.

She comes home from school sometimes calling me stupid, a bad mom, says I do nothing all day (I work), and has come up with new ways to manipulate.

Maybe set some boundaries? You don't need to tolerate disrespect from her because you are an alcoholic. You are her mother, and you are worthy of respect.

zjw

i was pretty ticked off at my alcoholic abusive step father growing up but talkign about it to him or a therapist was useless. ALl he'd do is tell my why i'm wrong to feel how i feel and that i lied to the therapist there would then be subsequent beatings.

The reality in my case is I dont think anyones wrong to feel how they feel. Sure it might be off base or misguided but its how they feel and adult or child gotta find some common ground and try to understand each other and why they feel that way.

I have 6 kids thankfully no issues like this. But my relationship with my oldest son is a bit off. I blame myself and my upbringing I have a difficult time connecting with him and It has a lot to do with how I am and how he is. Our relationship is tame and such and he's a good kid But i wish it could be better but it can be hard to get past myself in order to make it so.

I'm not sure how your daughter feels. I know in my case my parents had divorced and i had to deal with this new step father and such and I was down right pissed off. There was so much stress at home that as soon as i got to go out to like say school this was like freedom then i'd procede to get into trouble at school acting up in class etc.. and of course be back in trouble again at home for it. There was no pleasing anyone however. No matter what i did it was never good enough I was always screamed at and beat etc.. I quit giving a **** after a while and I think in my case there hit a point of no return IE there was no way they woulda salvaged a relationship with me and my stepfather out of the mess that existed It was beyond repair at a certain point.

I know they say not to be our kids friends but to be there parents But i'm not sure. I'd try talking to her try and find out whats up how does she feel explain to her its ok to feel that way totally understandable etc.. and if things calm some explain hey but how your acting isnt always ok it makes me feel such and such a way when you act this way etc...

I like scotts idea of participating in the sessions but be prepared to hear stuff oyou may not wanna hear she needs to be able to be 100% honest.

I once had to go to a session wth my parents. I told the therapist what was going on at home i was truthful and honest and honestly looking forward to this guy REALLY helping me out here. On the way home in the car I got beat all the way home for lieing about being abused..... go figure! the irony! In hindsite i got mad becasue any good therapist woulda recognized this stepfather as an abuser so easily!!.

Then as a result of that I shut down and wouldnt talk about much in front of my parents or a thereapist etc...

behindblueyes

Yes, I am in the sessions with her for the whole hour.

Also, she has already lost her video games for when she comes home. The issue seems to be the gap in time for when she comes back is so long that she doesn't even remember what she did.

I don't want her becoming like her father and I. I was never like her at that age (mouthy and bossy) and I had two alcoholic parents who are still heavy drinkers.

zjw

its a tough one behindblueeyes I was never like that myself. Oh sure in my head i was thinking lots of things but i woudlnt dare run my mouth like that.

Once in a while one of my kids slips something out like that and I explain to them what would have happened to me as a child if I spoke in such a way to my parents and ask if thats the kind of discipline they think they need? Would they like the day in and day out beatings keeping them in check? My son even replied the one time well if you think it'll work. I was thinking you smart mouth little *(#*(#@@!*$ but I woulda said the same thing when asked that as a child lol. I simply took away his video games.

I've read that find there currency and take it away. In my sons case its his video games. he doesnt care about anything else on this planet but if he messes up i take away the games and he straightens up.

I know others tho with kids where its just problem afte rproblem they keep trying and trying and trying and its not till the kids are adults that they start to get it and even then sometimes they still dont.

Cant just give up ont hem tho they are our kids etc...

behindblueyes

I once told my child the same thing. That if I spoke to my dad that way he would have hit me nonstop. Which he did, even if I really did nothing. She went and told my parents that. Oh what fun.

She has a way with words and pinning everyone against each other. That started a pretty big family fight.

Nowadays, she will start with me just for attention. She gets a lot of positive attention now that I am sober but she has told my mom she played with her food just to ruin mothers day for me just for fun and she knew she didn't want dessert to begin with so she did it on purpose to get attention. Then she tells my mom not to tell me or else she will "break her trust". Where do kids get this stuff?

ScottFromWI

Lots of things are at play here, and none of us can fully understand your relationship with your daughter - but a few things to keep in mind.

1. She's a 9 year old girl. Kids rebel against their parents for all kinds of reasons, and sometimes it's just a part of growing up and learning how to be independent. It's simply part of being a parent.

2. Being a child of separated parents, there's probably always going to be an attention issue. She may never understand why you separated and you may never be able to explain it to her in a way that she will accept. The best you can do is be a good mom. Most of the things you describe are attention seeking behavior.

3. It takes 2 to have an argument. Kids can certainly start or "pick" fights...but they can only continue if we engage them. Sometimes just letting things cool off for a bit is a good idea.

zjw

sounds like shes pretty upset with you about something.

I would try to be nice and treat her good but when shes out of line very matter of factly and with little emotion explain what she did and dole out the punishment. I wouldnt allow her to get a read on how you feel it sounds like she will play that to her advantage if she can. I'd also treat her well and try to encourage healthy dialog with her when shes not in trouble etc even tho you might still be frustrated with her about this or that.

almost souns like she feels the need to get back at you for osmething. Shes entirely entitled to feel mad at you all she wnats but she still needs to behave and respect her parents etc..

I hope she comes around. those teen years can be killer with kids too. I"m lucky with my kids but i've seen some 13 year old girls wow they got some mouths on them lol!

zjw

I hate the attention seeking behaivior arguement. I guess it could be said shes seeking postive attention but has no idea how ot go about getting it so shes trying to get some attention anyway she can.

as a child some would say that with me that iw as seeking attention. I wasnt I simply was just not gonna be bossed around by an abusive *******. and since he was a lot bigger then me I had to lash out in the only way i could and that was to be vendictive or something at times. Or to haul off and do what he said not to do anyway just to show him I was gonna do what i wanted regardless of what he had to say about it. WHY? because I had 0 respect for him becuase he had 0 respect for me.

I dunno that its always attention seeking. It can be but sometimes people say its attention seeking because they dont want to dig deeper into the problem. SO be careful not to just brush her off as attention seeking.

Make sure your respecting her too becuase I guess respect goes both ways and is evne more critical at times like this.

fini

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...wE1VrfBt25PAjw

absolutely best book i ever read about parenting. and implemented, more to the point.
requires you changing, so you can do differently than be nice or be angry or be hurt or feel powerless or do "nothing but show her love".
love isn't enough.

behindblueyes

Yea, I have read "Parenting with love and logic", Dr Phils "Family First", every ADD and parenting book in the library I can get my hands on and I am frustrated. I am really angry now due to the fact that I don't lay a hand on her yet she is angry with me. I had beatings every day (with anything they could grab) and I still never talked the way she does. I graduated with high honors. Makes you wonder. When she goes to her dads, he claims none of this happens there and he and his girlfriend have no problems with her. I still don't think its appropriate for me to bring a man into the house to replace her father with.

Let me also add that she doesn't touch her gaming system unless she has folded the laundry or scrubbed the floor on her hands and knees. When she talks like she did this morning, she gets a plug on it that needs removed with a key.

hopeful4

I am wondering if when she is acting out like that, if you have ever held her hand and gently asked her why she is so angry with you?

My counselor told me once that it's so much harder to be mad at a person when they gently hold your hand, and I think that is so true. I know it's pretty common for kids with her issues to have outbursts. I don't have any idea if that would help or not, just throwing it out there.

I will say this. DO NOT RELAPSE. The best gift you can give yourself, or her, is your own sobriety. She obviously has some issues she needs help with, having a sober mom is going to be high up on the list to be able to help her through those.

Hugs to you.

Choicy

Sometimes a new day brings a different perspective?


I know is I try to lead by example. Sometimes that involves silence.

I try to find the best most sympathetic people to share with so I can go back in there today and try again.

I intend to be consistent, so no matter the child's rebellion, and that is my kids' job--to test limits and figure out what they are okay with,
and my job to keep them alive,
and possibly content? while they figure that out.

They want me to love and reassure them no matter their behavior!!

Of course I caused some of this. Of course I have crap tools from my upbringing, so all I sometimes know is what not to do. I don't choose to think about my child at 14 because right now is enough!

Love and Logic was wonderful for me, but I had to go to a class because it was not natural.

Also, parents need support. Lots of support. My kids trigger my past which makes it harder, because I don't want to repeat it and I don't choose to medicate myself. Yay NA: 12 steps EVERYDAY.

Plus TIAN DAYTON has been a treasuretrove.

Your concern for your daughter, and your relationship is commendable!

EndGameNYC

Lots going on here.

Separate (and never equal) parenting is another cog in our attention-deficit society. Younger children especially find it difficult to move back-and-forth between rules of engagement, expectations and the very fact that they often have dramatically different relationships with each parent living lives decidedly separate from the other. It's difficult enough when in "intact" families Mommy says "no" and Daddy says "yes."

Moreover, Daddy Is now virtually living with a different woman, yet another adult with whom your daughter is struggling to find her way.

As you and many others here likely know, children are at a tremendous disadvantage when it comes to their willingness and their ability to express their feelings. (Only one reason why play therapy is so ubiquitous when working with children.) So, whenever they experience conflict -- both from within and from without -- they act out. (I imagine that many of us here do the same thing as adults, active alcoholism being perhaps the most devastating instance of this phenomenon.) Tantrums, holding their breath...cutting, becoming "accident-prone," bed wetting, overeating/starvation and other extreme behaviors.

If it's true that your daughter doesn't act ou the way you've described when she's with your ex, this is not necessarily bad news for you. For the same reasons that a child may scream out to one parent instead of the other, "I hate you and I wish you were dead!", she may also act out in aggressive ways with one or both parents: She feels safe in expressing her true feelings with you (within her limited capacity to do so), but not when she's with her father. I mean, would she behave the way she does with someone she doesn't trust or doesn't know? Like a stranger? Like most people, it's much easier or much safer to feel anger or rage than it is to experience terror. I've never met an angry person who wasn't enraged over the fear of losing something, over something that's already lost, or over something that he absolutely cannot have but still wants. The last being the major difference between anger and rage.

It's very likely that she has strong and conflicting feelings about what's been going on generally, and with what's been going on with her father and his "new wife" and her "new Mommy" in particular. She's also in the process of struggling her way through a few crucial developmental stages -- and rapidly so -- while all this familial upheaval and changing of/experimenting with roles has been taking place.

Note to zjw: Would you not agree that you acted out with your stepfather because you did not receive the right kind of attention? Or, alternatively, that you did receive the worst possible kind of attention?

Children, and adults, can deal with pain and suffering, even abuse. But what can break our hearts more than anything else is indifference. A state of being in which we truly believe that absolutely no one cares.

tomsteve

im not that smart but it seems this is a huge part of the problem:
" she set out to make sure I knew she was in charge. "

EndGameNYC

It's likely that she feels out of control, or at least unable to control anything and anyone that currently constitute her life. Including her own feelings.

zjw

maybe she doesnt have rules at her dads and doesn tlike the fact that she has to have rules at your place. I'm not sure how to handle that but maybe he hasnt set any boundaries for her so she doesnt like that she suddenly has them?

I think sometimes kids dont realize how bad they could have it. I could take a caming system away and you'd think i beat the boy. Its like geeze wow he's really taking this incredibly hard amazing! when i was a kid a punishment like that woulda meant nothing to me. but my idea of bad was a lot different then his.

Maybe she needs some perspective to realize just how good she has it too. I swear my son sometimes could benefit by working at a soup kitchen or something!

zjw

I like the control idea too that some have mentioned

for me with my stepfather itwas like yeah i'm not gonna let you control me!! for me it was a respect thing however. i felt he had 0 respect ofr me and clearly with the abuse he didnt so i was not about to give him what he wanted (follow his orders) that woulda been handing over control to him and validating his abusive tactics as effective. I wasnt gonna play that. It was a battle of the wills whos gonna change first. I was hard headed and stubborn. I never changed neither did he it was a miserable expierince for us both.

zlhzlh

My daughter was exactly the same......her anger towards me caused a vicious cycle of me getting upset, me drinking, her blaming me for everything, we argued constantly, it never got physical but I cried most days at the way she treated me. I used to feel like I was worthless, she talked to me like ****...it seemed the more effort I tried to make, the worse she treated me. The whole time I was working and a functioning alcoholic. Her father and me went through a terrible time, I felt he sided with her, he said I should know better and to not react. I honestly thought many a time that I would be better off dead and they would all live happily ever after. This went on for a very long time, but my daughter never missed a trick, she knew I was drinking a lot, she knew I was cheating on her father, she knew we argued every night, she knew we were on the verge of divorce. My poor little girl lived through a lot of stuff she shouldn't have and it's only now I am sober she has softened towards me. She always loved me but she was scared she was gonna lose Me. My little girl is an adult now and lives away, we speak every day, sometimes twice a day. I regret missing out on her teenage years, most of it I was either working or passed out. If only I could turn the clock back.
My suggestion is ask her what she really wants to do the next time she's with you and give her all of your undivided attention, no matter how hard things get. Just listen and be there x