Almost 2 Year Sober & Still Confused...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by zjw 
Yeah I see what your saying For me tho my amt of desire to quit had to be more then my amt of desire to drink. and even then!!
I guess yoru thinking like they should explain more about how the cravings can pass and try to find a way to take your mind off of the urge to drink etc..?
I know life can be hard sometimes IE life throws a tough one at you and they might say drinking isnt the answer. And they are right but in that moment tho when you feel at your worst I'm not sure how you say no to drinking myself. I have almost 5 years sober and thankfully have yet to have to face a situation that bad yet. But it is one that worries me. IE how will i get through it sober if this happens ro that happens I dunno. Someone once told me I'd just rise above it. Maybe so I dunno.
I guess yoru thinking like they should explain more about how the cravings can pass and try to find a way to take your mind off of the urge to drink etc..?
I know life can be hard sometimes IE life throws a tough one at you and they might say drinking isnt the answer. And they are right but in that moment tho when you feel at your worst I'm not sure how you say no to drinking myself. I have almost 5 years sober and thankfully have yet to have to face a situation that bad yet. But it is one that worries me. IE how will i get through it sober if this happens ro that happens I dunno. Someone once told me I'd just rise above it. Maybe so I dunno.
A few weeks ago I went to a round-robin meeting where the question was posed, what would you do if an alcoholic said that they felt an urge to drink. Everyone (but me) followed the AA line and said that there was nothing they could do to help someone who felt an urge to drink. Some said they would pray. Others said they would check in a few days later.
It upset me to hear that, because many non-addict friends helped me through urges. Shouldn't an addict/alcoholic who knows what it is like, be able to do more? It seemed to me that even just offering a suggestion (other than prayer) could be a lifeline.
We say that we are in this together. Metaphorically that may be true, but what if it was literally true? I do not think early recovery has to be as lonely as we make it.
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alaek, back to your OP, you might look for a support group (12-Step, SMART or other) that is specifically aimed at newcomers or beginners. Those meetings tend to get a younger crowd.
Even better, have you tried to cultivate some ways of entertaining yourself that don't involve your normal drinking set? Language or art classes, hiking clubs.... It takes work, but you can build a social network as the new sober you!
Even better, have you tried to cultivate some ways of entertaining yourself that don't involve your normal drinking set? Language or art classes, hiking clubs.... It takes work, but you can build a social network as the new sober you!
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Originally Posted by miamifella
Yes to both.
And I guess I am judgmental in that I think that the program ought to provide more guidance on quitting. I understand that meetings are there to motivate people, but sometimes it takes more than handing someone a book and telling them that people in recovery have great lives to show them how to stop.
The program may be great for staying stopped---but there ought to be a way to help people to stop in the first place! I think that there is a bit too much mystery in the program and that people ought to be able to ask questions about how to quit drinking and drugging. Telling people to pray before they have any concept of a higher power, does not always work.
In my judgmental judgement this is a real shortcoming. And I think it is why so many people feel unwelcome and/or confused.
And I guess I am judgmental in that I think that the program ought to provide more guidance on quitting. I understand that meetings are there to motivate people, but sometimes it takes more than handing someone a book and telling them that people in recovery have great lives to show them how to stop.
The program may be great for staying stopped---but there ought to be a way to help people to stop in the first place! I think that there is a bit too much mystery in the program and that people ought to be able to ask questions about how to quit drinking and drugging. Telling people to pray before they have any concept of a higher power, does not always work.
In my judgmental judgement this is a real shortcoming. And I think it is why so many people feel unwelcome and/or confused.
maybe you should lead by example?
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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I commend you on being only 24 and realizing the strength of your addiction in a society where alcohol is socially acceptable. Keep being strong, there are going to be lots of triggers in your path. Most alcoholics would not realize they have a problem until much later in life, until they are into their second divorce, until they are middle age with nothing to show for, until they truly hit rock bottom. The people you see in AA are mostly those with that type of story, that is why you probably feel like a fish out of water and can't relate. My husband was the same way when he went to his first AA meetings, he felt like he wanted to drink afterwards because he just felt so uncomfortable and it made him think that his addiction wasn't 'as bad'.
If AA is not making you feel good and instead doing the opposite effect, I suggest to not go. The whole purpose of AA is to have a support group. It does wonders for some but not everyone. I suggest you find a support system thats a good fit for you, but the important part is having some sort of support system (people that you have around that don't drink). The good thing about social media now a days is that you can come onto forums like these and find a type of support network, you can go onto apps like "meetup" and join groups of others that have different hobbies and interests apart from your usual friends that just drink and party. You need to change your lifestyle if you want to maintain sobriety. A realization that my AH just had is realizing that most people out there don't drink! Even though it may be common sense to some, for many alcoholics this concept is hard to grasp. He has been surrounded by a particular culture for so long, he has picked his friends who share a common lifestyle, he has picked his hobbies that enable drinking (bars, restaurants, pubs, chilling out at home with friends drinking and playing video games etc.), things such as playing sports, volunteering, reading etc. (Hobbies that millions of sober people do that don't require drinking) unconsciously never appealed to him and he always rejected such invitations to participate but always willing to participate in activities that enable drinking.
I think once you engage yourself in a different culture surrounded by non-drinkers you are going to feel better about your choice to not drink. You may see your drinking buddies less often because their lifestyle and your new lifestyle will clash.
If AA is not making you feel good and instead doing the opposite effect, I suggest to not go. The whole purpose of AA is to have a support group. It does wonders for some but not everyone. I suggest you find a support system thats a good fit for you, but the important part is having some sort of support system (people that you have around that don't drink). The good thing about social media now a days is that you can come onto forums like these and find a type of support network, you can go onto apps like "meetup" and join groups of others that have different hobbies and interests apart from your usual friends that just drink and party. You need to change your lifestyle if you want to maintain sobriety. A realization that my AH just had is realizing that most people out there don't drink! Even though it may be common sense to some, for many alcoholics this concept is hard to grasp. He has been surrounded by a particular culture for so long, he has picked his friends who share a common lifestyle, he has picked his hobbies that enable drinking (bars, restaurants, pubs, chilling out at home with friends drinking and playing video games etc.), things such as playing sports, volunteering, reading etc. (Hobbies that millions of sober people do that don't require drinking) unconsciously never appealed to him and he always rejected such invitations to participate but always willing to participate in activities that enable drinking.
I think once you engage yourself in a different culture surrounded by non-drinkers you are going to feel better about your choice to not drink. You may see your drinking buddies less often because their lifestyle and your new lifestyle will clash.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
heres something from the big book:
We think that about one-half of today's incoming A.A. members were never advanced cases of alcoholism; though, given time, all might have been.
Most of these fortunate ones have had little or no acquaintance with delirium, with hospitals, asylums, and jails. Some were drinking heavily and there had been occasional serious episodes. But with many, drinking had been little more than a sometimes uncontrollable nuisance. Seldom had any of these lost either health, business, family, or friends.
Why do men and women like these join A.A.?
The twelve who now tell their experiences answer that question. They saw that they had become actual or potential alcoholics, even though no serious harm had yet been done.
They realized that repeated lack of drinking control, when they really wanted control, was the fatal symptom that spelled problem drinking. This, plus mounting emotional disturbances, convinced them that compulsive alcoholism already had them; that complete ruin would be only a question of time.
Seeing this danger, they came to A.A. They realized that in the end alcoholism could be as mortal as cancer; certainly no sane man would wait for a malignant growth to become fatal before seeking help.
Therefore, these twelve A.A.'s, and thousands like them, have been saved years of infinite suffering. They sum it up like this: "We didn't wait to hit bottom because, thank God, we could see the bottom. Actually, the bottom came up and hit us. That sold us on Alcoholics Anonymous."
true friends wouldnt try andconvince me i dont have a problem with alcohol.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by alaek
Thank you so much for this. It's really what I needed. I haven't read the Big Book yet, not sure why, but I really appreciate this passage. Could you tell me where in the book it is? But yes, I agree, true friends wouldn't try to convince me I don't have a problem... So then, do I have to make the decision to let go of those friends? Or do I forgive them because they are simply in denial of their own problem themselves?
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Originally Posted by alaek
I'm ashamed to say that I'm almost 2 years sober and yet so confused about everything. I know 2 years isn't that long, but to me, it feels way too long. It doesn't help that I'm 24, and surrounded by friends who still party and drink all the time. They can't seem to understand why I made the "extreme" decision to get sober because to them, I'm no where near an "addict". I get so caught up in that word... "addict"... am I an addict? An alcoholic? And does it even matter anyways? I compare myself to everyone, addicts and non addicts. I feel like I don't belong anywhere. I was never really as bad as most of the addicts I know, yet I can't relate to any of my friends who don't seem to think they have a drinking problem. What do I do??? I'm tired of feeling like my friends/family think I am just an overdramatic, extreme person who "thinks" they have a problem but really doesn't. I believe I had unhealthy drinking habits and if I continued, I would definitely get worse and worse. That's why I decided to stop at a young age. But it hurts that no one truly supports my decision. I find myself thinking, all the time, "maybe I should just relapse... then maybe I can really show them what an addict looks like..." This is obviously not right. But I think it a lot. I am hurt, tired of feeling tired, I can't take the cravings and the feeling of just wanting to give up on everything. Why am I feeling this way after 2 years????
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alaek, I see that Tom Steve must not have seen your question about where that quote was from. It's at the beginning of the personel stories for section 2.
Interesting interpretation of the first step, but it's completely wrong. The first step says. "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable". Nothing in the step about other people. Nothing there about their ability (or inability) to help us. Nada zip. The first step is just 13 words. It's about taking action, about making an admission. That's all. It's simple as can be. It's a distortion to say it says something other than what's clearly stated in those 13 words.
These things are done all the time. People are told that cravings don't last forever in all sorts of ways (e.g. this too shall pass), they are told to call their sponsor (pick up the phone before you pick up a drink) and to remember HALT (hungry angry lonely tired) as things to watch out for. Is this stuff in the program? No. But it does exist as wisdom in the rooms and there is alot wisdom there. These are things a sponsor can be quite helpful with as well.
Again it is not "the AA line...that there was nothing they could do to help someone who felt an urge to drink". What you describe does not even sound like an AA meeting. In fact I have never (in the many thousands of meetings I have attended) been to an AA meeting where anything like what you are referring to has taken place. In fact, my experience is exaxtly like tomsteve's who says: Why is your experience so consistently different from what other people experience miami? Could it be something to do with how you interpret things (step 1 for example)?
Originally Posted by miamifella
I know that according to the first step we cannot do anything to help each other stop,
Originally Posted by miamifella
Yes, I think that in trying to "live in the solution" and honor the first step, that AA et al pass over simple things like telling people that cravings pass, that talking to friends, preparing a good meal, rewarding oneself for withstanding a craving, etc can help someone make it through.
Originally Posted by miamifella
A few weeks ago I went to a round-robin meeting where the question was posed, what would you do if an alcoholic said that they felt an urge to drink. Everyone (but me) followed the AA line and said that there was nothing they could do to help someone who felt an urge to drink.
Originally Posted by tomsteve
i hear of and see people helping others learn how to stop drinking/drugging every meeting i attend.
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Originally Posted by awuh1
alaek, I see that Tom Steve must not have seen your question about where that quote was from. It's at the beginning of the personel stories for section 2.
Interesting interpretation of the first step, but it's completely wrong. The first step says. "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable". Nothing in the step about other people. Nothing there about their ability (or inability) to help us. Nada zip. The first step is just 13 words. It's about taking action, about making an admission. That's all. It's simple as can be. It's a distortion to say it says something other than what's clearly stated in those 13 words.
Interesting interpretation of the first step, but it's completely wrong. The first step says. "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable". Nothing in the step about other people. Nothing there about their ability (or inability) to help us. Nada zip. The first step is just 13 words. It's about taking action, about making an admission. That's all. It's simple as can be. It's a distortion to say it says something other than what's clearly stated in those 13 words.
I think that if the step was just "I admitted..." then just walking into the meeting would constitute taking the step. It is that little word "We" that makes the step so hard.
Originally Posted by awuh1
These things are done all the time. People are told that cravings don't last forever in all sorts of ways (e.g. this too shall pass), they are told to call their sponsor (pick up the phone before you pick up a drink) and to remember HALT (hungry angry lonely tired) as things to watch out for. Is this stuff in the program? No. But it does exist as wisdom in the rooms and there is alot wisdom there. These are things a sponsor can be quite helpful with as well.
Again it is not "the AA line...thto drink". What you describe does not even sound like an AA meeting. Iat there was nothing they could do to help someone who felt an urge n fact I have never (in the many thousands of meetings I have attended) been to an AA meeting where anything like what you are referring to has taken place. In fact, my experience is exaxtly like tomsteve's who says:
Why is your experience so consistently different from what other people experience miami? Could it be something to do with how you interpret things (step 1 for example)?
Again it is not "the AA line...thto drink". What you describe does not even sound like an AA meeting. Iat there was nothing they could do to help someone who felt an urge n fact I have never (in the many thousands of meetings I have attended) been to an AA meeting where anything like what you are referring to has taken place. In fact, my experience is exaxtly like tomsteve's who says:
Why is your experience so consistently different from what other people experience miami? Could it be something to do with how you interpret things (step 1 for example)?
Every sponsor I ever had said that they would never do anything that would endanger their own sobriety. They said it was important not to take others down with you when you are relapsing. And there is that pesky first step. So while I read on SR about people calling a sponsor in such situations, that is something I have always been strongly told NOT to do.
It was indeed an AA meeting where they said you cannot help someone craving. Later at a very small meeting (only 2 other people there), when I asked about this the two people there said that if I felt cravings that probably it would be okay if I called someone...just not them...they did not know who I should call...but probably it was okay. They were a little relieved when I said I would only call people outside of the program.
A number of times over the years here on SR and IRL, people have described similar experiences and teachings. I would have loved an easier, softer way, but I never found it in 12-step recovery.
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Originally Posted by miamifella
It is that little word "We" that makes the step so hard..
The word "we" does not make the step hard. Its the incorrect meaning you take from reading those 13 words that makes it difficult,,,, for you.
Originally Posted by miamifella
while I read on SR about people calling a sponsor in such situations, that is something I have always been strongly told NOT to do.
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Originally Posted by awuh1
The word "we" is used in the first step because it's talking about what the first (approximetly) 100 people in AA had done when the book was written. All the steps describe what they did, and suggest you do the same. It's NOT saying we "can't help each other". That's your interpretation. When people say "it's a we program" it's because we do help each other, not because we don't.
The word "we" does not make the step hard. Its the incorrect meaning you take from reading those 13 words that makes it difficult,,,, for you.
AGAIN, why is your experience of AA so different than other peoples experience of it miami? Why?
The word "we" does not make the step hard. Its the incorrect meaning you take from reading those 13 words that makes it difficult,,,, for you.
AGAIN, why is your experience of AA so different than other peoples experience of it miami? Why?
A number of people here and elsewhere have said that they had similar experiences to mine and that they were taught the same things.
People have also said that they know of meetings that have the same views as you describe. But when I ask them where so I can go....they never can actually say where these meetings are. No one has ever been able to refer me to a meeting in my area with this softer version of AA. If this type of AA is so universally available, you would think someone would be to point out where to find it. I can list a number of the stricter meetings I have been to.
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miamifella
I guess some stuff like live the solution or live life on lifes terms or what is your plan etc..
when i see lines like this on the board to new comers it urks me. because to be honest if iw as a new comer and someone said those "Canned" lines to me I'd be like huh wtf are they even talking about. Heck even now at almost 5 years sober I only have a general idea of what the statement "what is your plan" means.
That being said yeah I guess ome of that could be explained better. But then again staying around here and aa i sorta started tofigure it out but I do feel that I had to really work to figure out what was meant by these types of things it wasnt really spoon fed to me. I also dont have a sponsor either perhaps something liek that woulda helped.
I guess some stuff like live the solution or live life on lifes terms or what is your plan etc..
when i see lines like this on the board to new comers it urks me. because to be honest if iw as a new comer and someone said those "Canned" lines to me I'd be like huh wtf are they even talking about. Heck even now at almost 5 years sober I only have a general idea of what the statement "what is your plan" means.
That being said yeah I guess ome of that could be explained better. But then again staying around here and aa i sorta started tofigure it out but I do feel that I had to really work to figure out what was meant by these types of things it wasnt really spoon fed to me. I also dont have a sponsor either perhaps something liek that woulda helped.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by zjw
miamifella
I guess some stuff like live the solution or live life on lifes terms or what is your plan etc..
when i see lines like this on the board to new comers it urks me. because to be honest if iw as a new comer and someone said those "Canned" lines to me I'd be like huh wtf are they even talking about. Heck even now at almost 5 years sober I only have a general idea of what the statement "what is your plan" means.
That being said yeah I guess ome of that could be explained better. But then again staying around here and aa i sorta started tofigure it out but I do feel that I had to really work to figure out what was meant by these types of things it wasnt really spoon fed to me. I also dont have a sponsor either perhaps something liek that woulda helped.
I guess some stuff like live the solution or live life on lifes terms or what is your plan etc..
when i see lines like this on the board to new comers it urks me. because to be honest if iw as a new comer and someone said those "Canned" lines to me I'd be like huh wtf are they even talking about. Heck even now at almost 5 years sober I only have a general idea of what the statement "what is your plan" means.
That being said yeah I guess ome of that could be explained better. But then again staying around here and aa i sorta started tofigure it out but I do feel that I had to really work to figure out what was meant by these types of things it wasnt really spoon fed to me. I also dont have a sponsor either perhaps something liek that woulda helped.
I do not think there is so much need for mystery in the program. I think it is different now with the internet and all the pamphlets, but back in the early 2000s getting information about the program was so hard. Asking questions was discouraged. This seems to have changed in the last few years, and that is a very positive change.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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You seem to be saying that you're area (miami florida) is different, but I recall a post from you saying that you have attended meetings in at least two other areas. You reported that you heard the same sorts of things in those areas. In any case, if I'm mistaken about this then why would your part of Florida be so different? It does not make sense.
I suggest you post some of this stuff in the 12 step forum and get some feedback (perhaps start with your interpretation of the 1st step). What you take away from your experience in AA seems nothing less than bizarre. If AA there is in fact so different from what a vast majority of people experience (and understand) about AA elsewhere, then why do you continue to post it as if it is generally accepted fact? This is of particular concern when your perspective is so negative (as is your interpretation of the first step).
There are many new people in these forums who do not know anything about AA. Your negative interpretations have the potential to keep them from seeking help through a means that could greatly benefit them (your interpretation of the first step as saying there is nothing AA members can do to help one another is a prime example of this).
The bottom line is that you should consider that what you are saying may be doing some real harm. Please ask for some feedback in the 12 step forum. I'd like to hear what others think and what they might recommend.
I suggest you post some of this stuff in the 12 step forum and get some feedback (perhaps start with your interpretation of the 1st step). What you take away from your experience in AA seems nothing less than bizarre. If AA there is in fact so different from what a vast majority of people experience (and understand) about AA elsewhere, then why do you continue to post it as if it is generally accepted fact? This is of particular concern when your perspective is so negative (as is your interpretation of the first step).
There are many new people in these forums who do not know anything about AA. Your negative interpretations have the potential to keep them from seeking help through a means that could greatly benefit them (your interpretation of the first step as saying there is nothing AA members can do to help one another is a prime example of this).
The bottom line is that you should consider that what you are saying may be doing some real harm. Please ask for some feedback in the 12 step forum. I'd like to hear what others think and what they might recommend.
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I have been to meetings elsewhere, and thought there were differences, the essential positions of AA seemed to be the same. It is only on SR that I find claims of groups with a very different approach.
I have always maintained that AA is the best place to start recovery. It gave me a vision of what recovery can be. It guided me toward articulating the principles which still guide my recovery. And I continue to recommend AA to people who come to me for advice on recovery.
However, it was damaging to my recovery that I could not share my experience in the program. It made me feel very alone and afraid that there was no one who shared anything similar to what I was going through. I thought there was something wrong with me, because everyone else was talking about how joyous, happy and free they were. I thought there must be something wrong with me because I kept asking for help even though I kept getting yelled at for it.
I expected recovery to be like it was in the Big Book and thought that I must be someone naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty, because clearing out my sponsor's garage did not help my recovery. I felt that my chances of recovery were nil.
I think back on what I needed to hear when I was a newcomer and it was what I write---that there is hope even if AA does not fit. If someone has experience different then mine, they will probably think I am crazy and move on. But for someone who has had experience like mine, they need to know they are not alone.
I do not want anyone to feel the hopelessness and despair I felt. One of the gifts of AA was that it taught me the importance of sharing one's experience. It is by identifying with the experience of others that we find recovery. If my experience is different than yours, then you can move on. (Take what you need and leave the rest.)
I have always maintained that AA is the best place to start recovery. It gave me a vision of what recovery can be. It guided me toward articulating the principles which still guide my recovery. And I continue to recommend AA to people who come to me for advice on recovery.
However, it was damaging to my recovery that I could not share my experience in the program. It made me feel very alone and afraid that there was no one who shared anything similar to what I was going through. I thought there was something wrong with me, because everyone else was talking about how joyous, happy and free they were. I thought there must be something wrong with me because I kept asking for help even though I kept getting yelled at for it.
I expected recovery to be like it was in the Big Book and thought that I must be someone naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty, because clearing out my sponsor's garage did not help my recovery. I felt that my chances of recovery were nil.
I think back on what I needed to hear when I was a newcomer and it was what I write---that there is hope even if AA does not fit. If someone has experience different then mine, they will probably think I am crazy and move on. But for someone who has had experience like mine, they need to know they are not alone.
I do not want anyone to feel the hopelessness and despair I felt. One of the gifts of AA was that it taught me the importance of sharing one's experience. It is by identifying with the experience of others that we find recovery. If my experience is different than yours, then you can move on. (Take what you need and leave the rest.)
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Originally Posted by D122y
Nobody is perfect. We all fight inner battles all the time.
This site is a great place to vent it out to folks that want to help.
Picking up drinking again will be a huge mistake.
You have a huge leg up on your future by being sober. Being a drunk does nothing good for you.
A few hours of Euphoric stupor followed by days of pain to the mind and body.
There is no problem alcohol can't make worse.
Suggest try to find an activity where you are giving of yourself. Helping your family w chores, helping someone on SR, donating time or money to a charity etc.
When you are feeling down and needy, give of yourself freely and anononamously, and you are rewarded 10 fold.
I am a Dad and teacher. I try to help my family and my students. I find comfort in that.
Thanks.
This site is a great place to vent it out to folks that want to help.
Picking up drinking again will be a huge mistake.
You have a huge leg up on your future by being sober. Being a drunk does nothing good for you.
A few hours of Euphoric stupor followed by days of pain to the mind and body.
There is no problem alcohol can't make worse.
Suggest try to find an activity where you are giving of yourself. Helping your family w chores, helping someone on SR, donating time or money to a charity etc.
When you are feeling down and needy, give of yourself freely and anononamously, and you are rewarded 10 fold.
I am a Dad and teacher. I try to help my family and my students. I find comfort in that.
Thanks.
I may borrow this, if you don't mind.
To the original poster, stay strong, two years is an awesome accomplishment! You have proven you can do it, that is amazing, just phenomenal!
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