Is a glass of wine ever ok? He doesn't think himself as alcoholic. Please help.
 

Hi all,

I have also posted this in friends and family section, but maybe people her can help also.

A bit of pre-history.

When I met my OH, he had a very good life. Traveling, having disposable income... With that came consumption of alcohol. In the beginning it did not alert me (we were not still living together). But, bottle during lunchtime, a bottle of champagne during our dinner date, following a bottle of red... Some more when we came home/hotel. I though, we are dating - having a good time, so probably ok. And, to be honest, I enjoyed the alcohol too. But I never had a problem.

After some time, I got to know, that when he was on his own, without me, he also had a LOT of alcohol. Drinking started after soon after 12. He rarely got really drunk (as in can't remember what happened the next day). He just slowly consumed 2-3 bottle of wine EVERY day, till the moment he was in bed.
That started way before I have met him.

He never thought himself an alcoholic. As sometimes he was able to stop for a month. Then go back to the same pattern again. He had a good job. Comfortable life. SO why not enjoy a glass of wine (or a bottle, or two).

First time I realized he might have a problem, was when we went on a trip, and first thing in the morning, when he woke up, he went straight to the mini bar and had a cheap wine from there.
For me it was a kind of a bell...

It was always wine or bubbles, never heavier stuff.

Then we moved in together. And drinking continued. Every DAY. A bottle or two.

I noticed how it changes him. Asked him to at least have a few days a week when we don't drink. Ir have alcohol during the weekend.

He was NEVER able to. Maybe one day... But the next day it all started again.

During our first 2 years together, we had a LOT of problems. He was going through a very difficult custody battle and divorce.
I was not an angel myself, and I lied. And flirted with other men still.
Later he blamed me that my behavior was the biggest reason he was drinking. BUT, now I know he DRANK like that WAY before he met me.

Why I stayed? I love him. Despite alcohol.

Then it got out of control. He lost his job, problems with ex, no new job. Me working like hell trying to support us. Financial problems. He lost it all.
Drinking was bad. I worked 16-18 hours day, every day, and guess, had ignored it.

Few times he got so drink he could not remember what he is doing. Few times he drove car being drunk. Irrational behavior. Being violent towards me - never remembering it afterwards (I could NEVER hurt you!)

Still, never admitting he had a problem.

Then, one day it all escalated. I told him I am leaving to stay with my mum for a few days. As I can't stand it anymore.

He completely lost it. Drank all he could, completely demolished the flat. Had no recollection of it. Smashed kitchen cabinets, all dishes, lamps... For 3 days he was in a state like that.
In the end, no matter how scared I was I had to get him.

Arranged with his family a plane ticket for him and for his sister to pick him up.
He was a complete mess...

3 weeks apart and he stopped drinking. Promised it will never go back to that.
I am still not sure that even at that time he realized he IS an alcoholic.

I took him back. Yes. Still loved him. And wanted to help. As he wanted help.

He stopped drinking. Nothing. Not a single drink.
Work improved.

I got pregnant. I thought - it all will be good now. It is a sign.

He still didn't drink. He kept his promise and we have never been happier.

Once when we were out on a date, he had a glass of wine. But just a glass. It did not continue. He said, he can drink responsibly. Once in a while a glass of wine. And that is it.

I am 17 weeks pregnant now. Yesterday was hard. He came home and said he needed a glass a wine. He wanted one.

I freaked out. Not because of him having a glass of wine (we made a deal, that if there is a BIG celebration, maybe a glass of champagne is ok, or if we have a date, a glass of wine to compliment a steak is ok too).
But the REASON behind it. Being NO reason.

I got very upset. It freaks me out.

He says I am over reacting and he is not an alcoholic, he is not addicted, he never wants to go back to where he was. He promises me it is not going to become a bottle a day.
That he is not addicted to it. Never was. Like with smoking he can't stop. If he doesn't have a cigarette, he suffers, as soon as he has, all is back to normal again.
But he is not an alcoholic, he says.

YET he forgets, that during those 3 weeks apart, first week was bad for him. Night sweats, not being able to sleep (I remember it now). Shaking.
That was an addiction?! And with alcohol once there is an addiction it is always there?

I am still upset about it.

I think he IS an alcoholic. There is no past tense for alcoholic. You can't say "I had a drinking problem, or I was an alcoholic". Once it was there, it always will be there?

Is a glass of wine EVER ok? Or is it a road back to hell? Slow but sure?

Or can an alcoholic have a glass of wine and keep to that?

PS: I am completely drink free. Even before I got pregnant. Do I occasionally want a glass of wine? As hell I do. But I never have one.

Am I right to be upset?

I can't speak for anyone else but I never wanted a glass of wine.

Just one glass sounds like torture but then I'm an alcoholic.

Should you be upset? Guess that depends on you.

alcoholics cannot moderate--that's been my personal experience as a drinker.

We really think we have it under control, and manage a glass or two a few times
but frequency and amounts creep up and before you know it we're back where we were
plus

I would be worried too, but you realize you cannot control his drinking,
only your choice live with it?

Without knowing him personally
he sounds like a common drunk -- alcoholic.

I pulled the same thing on my wife.
Met her while I was sober and within two years we were married.
I started back to a (little) drinking from time to time.
Wife asked of me one day
"I thought that you don't drink because you are alcoholic? "
I told her that, "I will be fine."
In short time it was not fine --not at all fine.

I sobered up again and have stayed sober.

Mountainmanbob

Well it sounds like his life was a complete mess when he was drinking. And it got better when he stopped. Look most of the population seems to be able to have a drink and leave it alone. I'm not built that way so I don't drink at all. Some problem drinkers learn to moderate , most don't. Drinking like he did is dangerous. Most normal drinkers dont abuse their mates and smash up their homes. I wonder why he feels the need to tempt fate. He must think that there is big magic in those wine bottles and his life will be miserable without it. I would be conceded too if I were in your shoes.

Oops. Ment to say I would be concerned too....

Just one glass would tick me off. I quit once for a month went out to dinner with my wife and ordered just 1 beer. That sparked the obsession I thought i'll order just 1 more. On the way home i grabbed a 6 pack and drank draily from then on again well over a decade went by before i ever quit.

I also was not an alcoholic either for the first eyar sober I had a lot of problems but alcohol was not one of them. It was not till i was sober a year that I realized gee i'm an alcoholic *sigh*. And sitting around an aa table that first time after a year of being sober it was well sobering. I thought how the hell did my life end up here? I have no idea. I just drank and drank and one thing led to another and there I was and thats just the way that it is.

I think its a very slipperly slope for him to be drinking. I think he'd be playing with fire and would likely get burned sooner or later. But knowing how I am nothing would get in between me and my drink! So my advice to you is it could be a bit of a battle for you till he realizes that he's an alcholic assuming he is one and decides for himself enough is enough.

Hello,

Your story seems very similar to mine.

I met my AH several years ago. I enjoy having a glass of wine here and there at nice restaurants, on a patio on a warm day, in social gatherings etc. When I first met him, this is what we did. His drink of choice is beer instead of wine. But, it doesn't matter what an alcoholics drink of choice is. At first I thought, well "it's only beer, it's not like he gets out of control hammered". The alcoholic profile of my AH is that he is a steady drinker with beer. He will start right after work and drink steadily until he goes to sleep (12 beer on average over a course of several hours). On the weekend he will start to drink at noon because an alcoholic will always justify their reasonings of why they can drink earlier, more often, etc.

He never thought he was an alcoholic because he wasn't the "jobless bum who drinks 2 bottles of vodka a day" (you know, the stereotype we all have in our heads of what an alcoholic is supposed to look like). My AH appears well groomed on the outside, physically fit and healthy, very attractive, high functioning meaning he goes to work everyday, pays bills, maintains relationships with friends etc. I didn't see the big red flag of The fact that his ex GF left him because he drank too much. He fed me the story of what his perspective was in his alcoholic spectacles "she was too controlling and never ever drinks and gave me ultimatums to either stop drinking or I'll leave". He quickly met me (an enabler to his drinking) and his alcoholism was able to continue. I drank with him, had fun, until it hit me that he has a severe problem. I'm able to not drink and I'll be fine, his drinking habit is a lot different. I finally got to the point where his ex was giving ultimatums.

It didn't really occur to him that he was a bad problem drinker until a couple years ago where I grew to become unhappy with his drinking. After arguing he decided to stop cold turkey. He managed to not drink for a few months. Because he was able to quit cold turkey and for it to not be that difficult, he talked himself into thinking and believing that he must have never been a true alcoholic, that he was surely able to moderate his drinking like the rest of us normal people. So it was time for us to go on our annual summer vacation and he chose that he will be able to enjoy beer while vacationing by the lake. Those beers very quickly turned into a 12 pack everyday again while we were on vacation and hadn't stopped until now (2 years later) that he just checked into rehab.

He's 8 days into his recovery in rehab. He now understands he is in fact a true alcoholic. There are so many different alcoholic profiles. It really doesn't matter the amount, frequency, type of alcohol you consume. If any part of your life becomes unmanageable because of your drinking eg. Problems with spouse, loss of job, financial worries and you simply can't just stop drinking and obsessing about drinking, then you got a problem.

I've educated myself on alcoholism and understand codependency now. I refuse to have children with him if he continues to drink. But I also know I can not change him, only an alcoholic can change themselves. No point in arguing, ultimatums, tears. Id suggest getting educated in codependency.

I can recognize the part of the cycle your husband is in. The first time I quit drinking I was sober for eight months. It was really hard but I did it and without much external help or really losing much in my life. So even though I'd heard all the horror stories, I couldn't understand that I could still be addicted. How could I possibly be if I could go so long without a drink? I understood that I couldn't drink all the time, but why not just on special occasions?

So I started drinking again, and it was fine at first. Just at a wedding, then a few weeks later at a birthday, etc. But it got worse, and worse, and worse. A year and a half later I had completely destroyed my career, my health, and my personal life. I quit again (not easily — I had to go to rehab and I'm still in the process of rebuilding my life 10 months later). This time I understand, on every level of my mind and body, that I can't drink normally. That my brain is different from other people's and no amount of good behavior will ever make me able to drink.

That second part... the totally ruin everything so that you finally learn part... took me a year and a half. That's a long time. It takes some people even longer, decades even, to get clean again. (I was very lucky, very very lucky, even though I lost so much). There's really no way of knowing how long it will take your husband to realize that he can't drink, or if he'll realize it. And based on your story I don't think he can. I know it's awful but right now the only thing you can do is let him take his journey and do everything you can to protect yourself and your child from the fall out.

It's a great first step that you made coming on this forum. I would suggest reading posts, sticky notes, there is a wealth of info from actual people going through what your husband is going through. And what you are going through.

Through educating yourself on alcoholism, you can become better aware. The main difference between an alcoholic and a non-alcoholic is their mind set about alcohol. Someone like yourself can enjoy a can of cider and if that can was your last can in the fridge you wouldn't dwell on about it, you most likely will not start allowing the thought of having another one haunt your mind. You may say "hey, I'd be nice to have another one but I'm not going to go and drive out of my way when I'm comfortable at home in my pj's to the liquor store to grab more". An alcoholic will have the opposite train of thought in the same scenario. They will most likely dwell on the fact that it would be so amazing to keep drinking and have another can of cider, they will have an obsessive-compulsion which will eventually get them to change out of their pj's at home and drive to the liquor store to buy more booze. That is why it's very dangerous for an alcoholic who has been sober for months or even years to try to drink in moderation again. An alcoholics mind will not allow them to drink in moderation. A problem drinker may be me in my early 20's. I'd drink lots at parties, get way too drunk at the clubs and probably make-out with guys I couldn't tell you what their names were, puke, pass out and say "I'm never drinking again" only to do it again next Friday night. I eventually grew up from my wild, partying days. I never obsessed, or needed a drink. I drank because that's what my friends did and the lifestyle I wanted to have when I was young and immature.

As for the part for you to be upset, you can't help your emotions but you also need to start understanding the mind frame he is in. You are only causing stress for yourself, your unborn child who's cortisone level you are raising, wasted energy when you should be focusing on yourself and your unborn child. Ultimatums, scolding him, arguing, fighting does not solve anything. Trying to fix him will be like you trying to jam a square peg into a round hole constantly, with each consecutive attempt without success you just become more mad and frustrated and the longer you keep on trying you will literally make yourself insane. Insanity is the act of doing something over and over expecting a different outcome. An alcoholic must really want to change (not for you, not for your unborn child) for himself. Who knows when that time will come but you need to start thinking whether raising your child in a household with an alcoholic father is the best option.

I could drink a single beer. -Without having a second.
I could smile and act just like you with your single beer.
But when I said that one was "just fine", it would be a lie. In my head I would fantasize about not having to play this game and being able to just relax and enjoy 10 or 11 more.

Behind that smile -resentment.

This is MY example of controlled drinking. I cannot speak for him. But if I was to wager...

Hi all :))

Thank you so very very very very much for all your replies and your support!

I think the biggest problem in my OH's case is that he does not admit there is no such thing as "HAD a drinking problem". In alcoholism there is no past tense.

I am very open with him, and he knows I posted on here. Hopefully he will also read the replies and at least realize it is not worth it even risking it for a glass of wine.

Once again, thank you very much.

I do not think you are wrong in being upset and commend you for the love you are showing.

This is not exactly encouraging feedback but it's honest and based on a 30+ year career of drinking and spiraling down into a very deep hole. It wasn't until I admitted I had a problem that I changed or at least started to and even after I did I had many relapses but every recovery I grew stronger and my tool box grew bigger, my plan amended to address where I went wrong and today I am a very happy and loving sober man because I wanted to be all I could be and with booze that was not going to happen.

I don't have an answer to your situation as the alcoholic in my experience has to want sobriety before change can start.

Andrew

It is interesting how many people with drinking problems can stop even for long periods of time -- its the never again part that gets us. In my opinion, only your husband know the extent of his true problem and only he can fix it. I don't completely agree that he can't do it for you and the baby, but to make it stick he has to really want it. I hope that he will start to post and explore the extent to which his life would be improved if he stopped completely. Whatever the label, life on your own terms is so much better.

My AH can stop, but also, it puts such great disappointment and fear in him hearing that he can NEVER again have another drink. It's equivalent to someone telling me I will never again see daylight and feel the sun on my skin.

The first step in a 12 step program is admitting you are powerless to alcohol. It seems that your OH is still in very big denial. Even the alcoholics that have worked through all the 12 steps need to keep on working on that, it's a lifelong commitment To keep them away from going back to square one. Without all the tools, resources and support, lifelong sobriety is 100 times harder to achieve.

I am going to disagree with others a bit. Not everyone with an alcohol addiction is identical, although we share many common experiences and some wisdom.

Your husband screwed up horribly, he was addicted to alcohol. As a result, you afraid, and maybe treating him a bit like his is child who you can't trust. Which he deserves, because of what he did. However, people don't like being treated like a child.

In my experience, one drink leads me, incredibly quickly, back to the level of drinking I had before. That is the experience of most alcoholics. It is also much much harder to have one drink than to have none. One makes me want more.

You can share with your husband that you are fearful that one drink will lead to many, back down the dark path. You can make an agreement with him that if he ever crosses a certain line (hides his drinking, drinks to the point where his behavior is altered, etc.) then he not only stops but seeks professional help. Beyond that, though, if you are going to have a marriage you can't police him or parent him.

Everyone is different. I disagree with AA conventional wisdom that every person with an addiction disorder follows exactly the same path. People who end up in AA are a subset of addicts for whom that story holds true, but they aren't every addict.

Your husband needs to be honest with himself. Is he fantasizing, obsessing about drinking? Is one never "enough"? Does he plan a time in the future when he can feel the buzz? If so, he is much better off just not drinking.

However, until he crosses a line I think you have a right to share your concerns but not to police him.

Thirty years after I first quit drinking, I thought I could have a glass of wine with my Christmas dinner. It was a four-and-a-half year ride back into hell for me.

I didn't stop until the pain of continuing to drink got worse than the pain of stopping.