Today is Yet Another Day
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
I'm with you on the question of whether alcoholism = pill addiction. I've never abused pills. I was even on a daily dose of Klonapin for two years, prescribed for anxiety. I was living in a foreign country so I had an entire year's prescription with me and never took more than prescribed. In fact the reason I went off of it was I kept forgetting to take it and got freaked out by the withdrawal. It wasn't until many years later that I even realized it had the capacity to be psychologically addictive, because I never felt that urge in the slightest. I thought it was addictive in the way that SSRIs are, purely physical.
I had a small Ativan prescription at rehab that I took a handful of times in the months afterwards to sleep, with no issue. Presumably I still have a quarter of a bottle somewhere but I don't know where I put it.
I don't understand it at all, I just know how alcohol makes me feel is like a hotwire directly into my utopia circuit, and nothing else I've ever put in my body has ever hijacked my logic like that. And it's not like I didn't try!
Anyway, that's my little vent.
For the program, I'd make a pros and cons list. You're right to be annoyed but make sure that that's truly outweighing the benefits before you make a move.
I had a small Ativan prescription at rehab that I took a handful of times in the months afterwards to sleep, with no issue. Presumably I still have a quarter of a bottle somewhere but I don't know where I put it.
I don't understand it at all, I just know how alcohol makes me feel is like a hotwire directly into my utopia circuit, and nothing else I've ever put in my body has ever hijacked my logic like that. And it's not like I didn't try!
Anyway, that's my little vent.
For the program, I'd make a pros and cons list. You're right to be annoyed but make sure that that's truly outweighing the benefits before you make a move.
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Evening O guess what I done today among other things
weeding outside the garden picked up what I thought were weeds turns out they were stinging nettles my bare hands got the full power of stinging nettles ouch ! lol
weeding outside the garden picked up what I thought were weeds turns out they were stinging nettles my bare hands got the full power of stinging nettles ouch ! lol
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
fantail, thanks for that
pros of going to the program
- outside accountability - someone will call me if I'm missing in action
- "random" testing is another form of accountability
- I like the people in my group
- I always try to take a lesson/observation/question away with me
- My eldest daughter would prefer that I continue to go no matter what (my girls that live with me are neutral)
- it's fun to sort of stir things up by just putting stuff out there; and gratifying that people respond so positively to that energy. That's a bit of an ego boost, so may actually be a con. Not sure.
cons of going to the program
- expense to me and to my insurance company (Speaking of which, I just got a bill for $157 for lab copays from the beginning of treatment. the statement asked me if I wouldn't please pay something? This is the first bill I got!)
- I don't really feel "safe" addressing what I consider to be at the root of my problems in this setting. that stuff is more suited to individual therapy
- infantilizing, cookie-cutter approach really rubs me the wrong way
- this anxiety over "being in trouble" is unwarranted. My problem, but it is a response to their approach
- I'm not sure if I agree with non-addicts counseling addicts. I don't think you can truly get it if you haven't lived it
I'm not sure this helped.
But I think it did. It really gets down to whether the benefits outweigh the negatives. Nothing about going there is "harming" me, but I'm not sure that it doesn't work out to a wash in the long run.
I will go for the next three days, as I committed to last week.
And on Friday I will make a decision about whether I will continue or not and discuss that with my case manager. (She has spent perhaps a total of two hours with me since I met her in January. I do not find this to be an impressive statistic.)
pros of going to the program
- outside accountability - someone will call me if I'm missing in action
- "random" testing is another form of accountability
- I like the people in my group
- I always try to take a lesson/observation/question away with me
- My eldest daughter would prefer that I continue to go no matter what (my girls that live with me are neutral)
- it's fun to sort of stir things up by just putting stuff out there; and gratifying that people respond so positively to that energy. That's a bit of an ego boost, so may actually be a con. Not sure.
cons of going to the program
- expense to me and to my insurance company (Speaking of which, I just got a bill for $157 for lab copays from the beginning of treatment. the statement asked me if I wouldn't please pay something? This is the first bill I got!)
- I don't really feel "safe" addressing what I consider to be at the root of my problems in this setting. that stuff is more suited to individual therapy
- infantilizing, cookie-cutter approach really rubs me the wrong way
- this anxiety over "being in trouble" is unwarranted. My problem, but it is a response to their approach
- I'm not sure if I agree with non-addicts counseling addicts. I don't think you can truly get it if you haven't lived it
I'm not sure this helped.
But I think it did. It really gets down to whether the benefits outweigh the negatives. Nothing about going there is "harming" me, but I'm not sure that it doesn't work out to a wash in the long run.
I will go for the next three days, as I committed to last week.
And on Friday I will make a decision about whether I will continue or not and discuss that with my case manager. (She has spent perhaps a total of two hours with me since I met her in January. I do not find this to be an impressive statistic.)
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
- this anxiety over "being in trouble" is unwarranted. My problem, but it is a response to their approach
yes. your problem and your response. triggered by the approach.
i'm wondering if you might consider reframing it as a pro
an opportunity to "deal" with an unwarranted, repeated response to an irritating annoyance.
hm. guess that sounds pretty poly-annish. so be it.
i haven't found a perfect way to lessen my unwarranted responses, in frequency or intensity, but sticking around irritating annoyances is great training ground for me to get better at it.
yes. your problem and your response. triggered by the approach.
i'm wondering if you might consider reframing it as a pro
an opportunity to "deal" with an unwarranted, repeated response to an irritating annoyance.
hm. guess that sounds pretty poly-annish. so be it.
i haven't found a perfect way to lessen my unwarranted responses, in frequency or intensity, but sticking around irritating annoyances is great training ground for me to get better at it.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Fini,
I get plenty of that at my job.
Said a bit tongue in cheek but it's absolutely true. I'm a supervisor in customer support role, so I get the irritating annoyances on a regular basis and have had a ton of practice dealing with it. And I've actually come quite a long way in this area.
Where I have a problem with it (the still terribly annoying cases) is when I don't perceive the person judging or pushing me around as being (a) an authority (b) my customer or (c) the boss of me. This leaves me with a small handful - just one hand - of people or situations that really get a rise out of me.
So I'm aware of what it is and know my internal reaction is less healthy than it could be and I work on that by trying to address the situation head on with "the offender" (almost never works). If I can extricate myself from the situation because I don't need to be involved, I do that. This is a new-ish strategy with which I've seen some good results. But sometimes I get to feeling so righteous that I hang in there alternating between trying to directly address the issue, avoidance and dogged obstinance. This is where the more extreme irritation comes in - feels like "where do you get off treating me like this?"
This category includes
- many interactions with my youngest child
- a couple of people at work somewhere in middle management that try to boss me around but don't understand my job and don't try to AND I don't know what their relationship is to me.
- a colleague who shows absolutely no respect for female peers or for anyone at all beneath his station
- this current clinic situation and two prior situations.
Hm, I was going to append "and they seem to not have respect for my individual personhood" to one of those items but realized it applies to all.
Now how am I supposed to get back to sleep?
O
I get plenty of that at my job.
Said a bit tongue in cheek but it's absolutely true. I'm a supervisor in customer support role, so I get the irritating annoyances on a regular basis and have had a ton of practice dealing with it. And I've actually come quite a long way in this area.
Where I have a problem with it (the still terribly annoying cases) is when I don't perceive the person judging or pushing me around as being (a) an authority (b) my customer or (c) the boss of me. This leaves me with a small handful - just one hand - of people or situations that really get a rise out of me.
So I'm aware of what it is and know my internal reaction is less healthy than it could be and I work on that by trying to address the situation head on with "the offender" (almost never works). If I can extricate myself from the situation because I don't need to be involved, I do that. This is a new-ish strategy with which I've seen some good results. But sometimes I get to feeling so righteous that I hang in there alternating between trying to directly address the issue, avoidance and dogged obstinance. This is where the more extreme irritation comes in - feels like "where do you get off treating me like this?"
This category includes
- many interactions with my youngest child
- a couple of people at work somewhere in middle management that try to boss me around but don't understand my job and don't try to AND I don't know what their relationship is to me.
- a colleague who shows absolutely no respect for female peers or for anyone at all beneath his station
- this current clinic situation and two prior situations.
Hm, I was going to append "and they seem to not have respect for my individual personhood" to one of those items but realized it applies to all.
Now how am I supposed to get back to sleep?
O
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
oh wow, a customer support SV. OMG, i wouldn't last a day!
kudos and admiration and sympathy to you.
sigh. the direct addressing of those situations head on doesn't usually work for me, either.
well no, that's not accurate. what doesn't work is direct confrontation. partly because it's too aggressive and i forget to stay on my side of the street, and partly because the people i have those particular irritations with are not people receptive to begin with.
or, maybe again more accurately, i haven't found the way.
or maybe i just want to change them and can't do it; bah!
But sometimes I get to feeling so righteous that I hang in there alternating between trying to directly address the issue, avoidance and dogged obstinance.
yes, been there. many times. still go there at times. and i used to love self-righteous incensed aliveness...that's how it felt, alive, in all the frustration.
i like that extricating yourself works for you in situations where you need not be involved. works for me, too. have to fight the urge sometimes to involve myself in things that don't involve me
all that is tough with the folks you mention, and esp. with family.
kudos and admiration and sympathy to you.
sigh. the direct addressing of those situations head on doesn't usually work for me, either.
well no, that's not accurate. what doesn't work is direct confrontation. partly because it's too aggressive and i forget to stay on my side of the street, and partly because the people i have those particular irritations with are not people receptive to begin with.
or, maybe again more accurately, i haven't found the way.
or maybe i just want to change them and can't do it; bah!
But sometimes I get to feeling so righteous that I hang in there alternating between trying to directly address the issue, avoidance and dogged obstinance.
yes, been there. many times. still go there at times. and i used to love self-righteous incensed aliveness...that's how it felt, alive, in all the frustration.
i like that extricating yourself works for you in situations where you need not be involved. works for me, too. have to fight the urge sometimes to involve myself in things that don't involve me
all that is tough with the folks you mention, and esp. with family.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Ditto to Every Single Thing you said, fini. Exactly. Right on. You got it.
Up at 430 yesterday and had group last night. Will write about it, but I'm on my tablet and gotta get ready to do it over again.
Up at 430 yesterday and had group last night. Will write about it, but I'm on my tablet and gotta get ready to do it over again.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
So....
I went to group Wednesday and Thursday and resigned today.
Wednesday was the continuing care thing and it was a-ok with some exceptions.
The ok part was a serial relapser talking about how he was thinking about quitting group so he could start drinking again. I thought that was pretty great that he brought it to the group. And also this other guy talked about letting go of the negative being his incentive as opposed to looking for a reward for doing the right thing. I could totally identify with that. I don't need a carrot or a stick! I just need to know that I'm on the right path.
The exception part was I felt I was being sort of baited by the counselor with the questions she was asking. It could have been complete paranoia so I'll skip that part.
In any event... counselor wanted to see me 15 minutes early this evening and so I showed up 30 minutes early. Her agenda was to discuss this Klonopin episode from a few weeks back. I told her I'd be happy to discuss that but also that I'd decided not to continue with the group. ... because I don't agree but I respect the program's rules/perspective.
And so we ended at a point where I guess we agreed to disagree and that I'll show up next week for group to say my goodbyes.
This is all good. Like I said, I like my group just fine and it feels right to tell them in person that I'm out. So now I just have to think of the best way to say why without being disruptive...
I went to group Wednesday and Thursday and resigned today.
Wednesday was the continuing care thing and it was a-ok with some exceptions.
The ok part was a serial relapser talking about how he was thinking about quitting group so he could start drinking again. I thought that was pretty great that he brought it to the group. And also this other guy talked about letting go of the negative being his incentive as opposed to looking for a reward for doing the right thing. I could totally identify with that. I don't need a carrot or a stick! I just need to know that I'm on the right path.
The exception part was I felt I was being sort of baited by the counselor with the questions she was asking. It could have been complete paranoia so I'll skip that part.
In any event... counselor wanted to see me 15 minutes early this evening and so I showed up 30 minutes early. Her agenda was to discuss this Klonopin episode from a few weeks back. I told her I'd be happy to discuss that but also that I'd decided not to continue with the group. ... because I don't agree but I respect the program's rules/perspective.
And so we ended at a point where I guess we agreed to disagree and that I'll show up next week for group to say my goodbyes.
This is all good. Like I said, I like my group just fine and it feels right to tell them in person that I'm out. So now I just have to think of the best way to say why without being disruptive...
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
Is the current situation what to say to your group?
I'd keep it kind of vague. I was somewhat outspoken at rehab about the concepts I didn't like and accidentally talked someone out of liking certain aspects of things. In retrospect I don't like at all that I did that. But it's hard to know what's appropriate? Depends on if you plan on seeing these people further I guess?
I'd keep it kind of vague. I was somewhat outspoken at rehab about the concepts I didn't like and accidentally talked someone out of liking certain aspects of things. In retrospect I don't like at all that I did that. But it's hard to know what's appropriate? Depends on if you plan on seeing these people further I guess?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
i'd try to put it in terms of running into some of my limitations.
which at this point i'm apparently unable to get past.
in fact, i'm planning to say something very much like that to my very first sponsee tomorrow, who has had me frustrated for a few weeks by cancelling, not wanting to follow even one of my several suggestions and plain not showing up.
yup, after grappling in myself with all the stuff about her, i can now see that never mind, what matters is that it's my own stuff that i'm unwilling to get past this.
yep, limitation.
might something similar work for you?
which at this point i'm apparently unable to get past.
in fact, i'm planning to say something very much like that to my very first sponsee tomorrow, who has had me frustrated for a few weeks by cancelling, not wanting to follow even one of my several suggestions and plain not showing up.
yup, after grappling in myself with all the stuff about her, i can now see that never mind, what matters is that it's my own stuff that i'm unwilling to get past this.
yep, limitation.
might something similar work for you?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Cant you just say that you thank them so much for their help and support but you feel you are at a point where it would be best to take off the training wheels. But that if you ever feel the urge to drink you will be back, and that you send them love and support on their journey. Simple I know but ....
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