Today is Yet Another Day
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Obladi,
hm...i don't know what "squaring the notion" means all by itself; what i asked about is your belief about being powerless vs your experience. for me, those two didn't mesh for the longest time.
and for that time, i preferred my belief that indeed i had the power/control, and couldn't see my actual experience through any other lens.
i ask about the powerlessness thing not because i'm trying to steer you towards any program which starts with an admission of powerlessness but because i spent years grappling with it and i keep 'reading' you as being in a very similar spot.
my choices about how i saw it/believed it to be:
-for decades, i believed i was in control. couldn't square committing to not drink again with drinking again anyway. but since i was in charge, clearly i hadn't tried hard enough. something was wrong with the commitment.
-later, i saw these choices: if i was in control , then how come i didn't stick to my decisions re not drinking again? if, after deciding never to drink again, i did indeed do so the very same day, two things came to mind: either i didn't actually have control, or if i did, i was insane. since clearly it was an insane decision to go back there.
-later again, i reconciled it this way (after hanging around with lots of concepts like choice, control, power, decision, commitment, agency) i always had the ability to stop and stay that way. the problem was, i didn't have the access to the ability. i didn't have the key, and the ability was somewhere locked up.
and since i couldn't access it, i didn't have the power. i couldn't do it.
the key came for me out of nowhere, and i'm reminded by your sharing about the universe bringing you the wrong people...anyway, i sat there one morning, with my coffee and my headache and feeling , as usual, slightly ill and shaky, and i fantasised about how one day, some day, this wonderful and healthy (i had left a destructive relationship recently) person would come and find me and bring me all these wonderful and healthy loving goodies and i would bring them....and it all stopped. stopped dead. it hit me that i was a drunk. that i had nothing top bring but a drunk. that this is who i was, and not just behaviour i engaged in.
i grabbed onto that moment and knowledge and it changed everything. it wasn't an intellectual thing. it was a total re-arrangements of the facts as i had known them before.
some might call it insight (in-seeing), others grace.
i didn't do it, nor did i make it happen. i had that moment of clarity, or whatever, and it's been key.
key to my powerlessness and key to "new power".
i'm going on and on here and not sure what is useful to you.. my own experience is that i simply couldn't stay stopped until i had that clarity. after that, the next few years had more incoherence as i inched my way towards "the program", since knowing myself as a DRUNK didn't in any way equate to being powerless over alcohol!!
wanna talk about "difficult student/slow thinker"??
actually, i don't think it's got much to do with thinking. it's the other knowledge that i needed. or: the knowledge, but in a different place.
i needed to accept the beyond-rational fact of my experience with at-times-powerlessness over that first drink. accept it as in: giving consent in heart soul and mind that yes, it was so.
how are you doing at the end of this day?
hm...i don't know what "squaring the notion" means all by itself; what i asked about is your belief about being powerless vs your experience. for me, those two didn't mesh for the longest time.
and for that time, i preferred my belief that indeed i had the power/control, and couldn't see my actual experience through any other lens.
i ask about the powerlessness thing not because i'm trying to steer you towards any program which starts with an admission of powerlessness but because i spent years grappling with it and i keep 'reading' you as being in a very similar spot.
my choices about how i saw it/believed it to be:
-for decades, i believed i was in control. couldn't square committing to not drink again with drinking again anyway. but since i was in charge, clearly i hadn't tried hard enough. something was wrong with the commitment.
-later, i saw these choices: if i was in control , then how come i didn't stick to my decisions re not drinking again? if, after deciding never to drink again, i did indeed do so the very same day, two things came to mind: either i didn't actually have control, or if i did, i was insane. since clearly it was an insane decision to go back there.
-later again, i reconciled it this way (after hanging around with lots of concepts like choice, control, power, decision, commitment, agency) i always had the ability to stop and stay that way. the problem was, i didn't have the access to the ability. i didn't have the key, and the ability was somewhere locked up.
and since i couldn't access it, i didn't have the power. i couldn't do it.
the key came for me out of nowhere, and i'm reminded by your sharing about the universe bringing you the wrong people...anyway, i sat there one morning, with my coffee and my headache and feeling , as usual, slightly ill and shaky, and i fantasised about how one day, some day, this wonderful and healthy (i had left a destructive relationship recently) person would come and find me and bring me all these wonderful and healthy loving goodies and i would bring them....and it all stopped. stopped dead. it hit me that i was a drunk. that i had nothing top bring but a drunk. that this is who i was, and not just behaviour i engaged in.
i grabbed onto that moment and knowledge and it changed everything. it wasn't an intellectual thing. it was a total re-arrangements of the facts as i had known them before.
some might call it insight (in-seeing), others grace.
i didn't do it, nor did i make it happen. i had that moment of clarity, or whatever, and it's been key.
key to my powerlessness and key to "new power".
i'm going on and on here and not sure what is useful to you.. my own experience is that i simply couldn't stay stopped until i had that clarity. after that, the next few years had more incoherence as i inched my way towards "the program", since knowing myself as a DRUNK didn't in any way equate to being powerless over alcohol!!
wanna talk about "difficult student/slow thinker"??
actually, i don't think it's got much to do with thinking. it's the other knowledge that i needed. or: the knowledge, but in a different place.
i needed to accept the beyond-rational fact of my experience with at-times-powerlessness over that first drink. accept it as in: giving consent in heart soul and mind that yes, it was so.
how are you doing at the end of this day?
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by fini 
Obladi,
i asked about is your belief about being powerless vs your experience. for me, those two didn't mesh for the longest time.
and for that time, i preferred my belief that indeed i had the power/control, and couldn't see my actual experience through any other lens.
i asked about is your belief about being powerless vs your experience. for me, those two didn't mesh for the longest time.
and for that time, i preferred my belief that indeed i had the power/control, and couldn't see my actual experience through any other lens.
Originally Posted by fini
-later again, i reconciled it this way (after hanging around with lots of concepts like choice, control, power, decision, commitment, agency) i always had the ability to stop and stay that way. the problem was, i didn't have the access to the ability. i didn't have the key, and the ability was somewhere locked up.
and since i couldn't access it, i didn't have the power. i couldn't do it.
and since i couldn't access it, i didn't have the power. i couldn't do it.
Originally Posted by fini
after that, the next few years had more incoherence as i inched my way towards "the program", since knowing myself as a DRUNK didn't in any way equate to being powerless over alcohol!!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I think I've identified a trigger. Up til now the only one I've known about is drama with the girls, but once I knew that I was able to handle it differently.
Wait, that's not true - another one is "It's the weekend." Does that count as a trigger?
Anyhow, after having thought about it over the last couple of days, I think the trigger was the universe delivering the wrong guy. Again. This time it was in the form of an independent contractor who appeared at my neighbor's door (her husband knows the guy from somewhere) and proceeded to do several jobs reasonably priced for both of us. But then he moved on to the big ticket item in my house - flooring - and appears to have quoted me approximately three times the rate I should've expected for installation. I thought that was high but ignored the niggling feeling because he was such a charming old dude. I called him on the price at the last minute before we were going to purchase materials. At first he told me the price was just an approximation, then he called to tell me he'd miscalculated, then he called me back with a price that was only $300 lower. I said, no thanks and bye.
This is like a metaphor for other men I've involved myself with. I get charmed, I'm full of trust because the guys are so likable, I start getting that niggling feeling but hold onto the trust, then finally confront them. At which point they give some lame-butt explanations, arguments, excuses or whatever and I finally say no thanks and bye. And then after the last few, I drank. A lot.
Clearly, this isn't the whole reason for me being a sot, but I think it's another piece of the puzzle. And I sure had better be cautious about men I trust immediately. Guess I was fooled because there was no romantic interest sort of thing going on for me...
Wait, that's not true - another one is "It's the weekend." Does that count as a trigger?
Anyhow, after having thought about it over the last couple of days, I think the trigger was the universe delivering the wrong guy. Again. This time it was in the form of an independent contractor who appeared at my neighbor's door (her husband knows the guy from somewhere) and proceeded to do several jobs reasonably priced for both of us. But then he moved on to the big ticket item in my house - flooring - and appears to have quoted me approximately three times the rate I should've expected for installation. I thought that was high but ignored the niggling feeling because he was such a charming old dude. I called him on the price at the last minute before we were going to purchase materials. At first he told me the price was just an approximation, then he called to tell me he'd miscalculated, then he called me back with a price that was only $300 lower. I said, no thanks and bye.
This is like a metaphor for other men I've involved myself with. I get charmed, I'm full of trust because the guys are so likable, I start getting that niggling feeling but hold onto the trust, then finally confront them. At which point they give some lame-butt explanations, arguments, excuses or whatever and I finally say no thanks and bye. And then after the last few, I drank. A lot.
Clearly, this isn't the whole reason for me being a sot, but I think it's another piece of the puzzle. And I sure had better be cautious about men I trust immediately. Guess I was fooled because there was no romantic interest sort of thing going on for me...
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by fini View Post
after that, the next few years had more incoherence as i inched my way towards "the program", since knowing myself as a DRUNK didn't in any way equate to being powerless over alcohol!!
That seems like a contradiction - explain, please?
exactly.
totally
i didn't get it. i still didn't get it. that's where the incoherence stayed for quite a while, and i stayed in it.
the two exclamation marks were supposed to indicate the "yeah right, fini!" sarcastic nature of the statement.
i could say i was sooooo dense.
or i can say i was soooo not wanting to ever admit i was powerless.
or i can say i was still so full of conceit that i couldn't reconcile these things.
pride. ego. whatever you want to call it.
that i had to have free will, because even really considering the possibility that i didn't have it would mean...well, there would be collapse.
in other words, i didn't understand 'surrender' but knew enough that for sure i didn't want to do it.
even though...
...on and on.
incoherence is painful and maddening, but if you don't just 'escape', it can be a great place to get in touch with unpalatable truths.
which then gave me a place of genuine foundation to build on.
Originally Posted by fini View Post
after that, the next few years had more incoherence as i inched my way towards "the program", since knowing myself as a DRUNK didn't in any way equate to being powerless over alcohol!!
That seems like a contradiction - explain, please?
exactly.
totally
i didn't get it. i still didn't get it. that's where the incoherence stayed for quite a while, and i stayed in it.
the two exclamation marks were supposed to indicate the "yeah right, fini!" sarcastic nature of the statement.
i could say i was sooooo dense.
or i can say i was soooo not wanting to ever admit i was powerless.
or i can say i was still so full of conceit that i couldn't reconcile these things.
pride. ego. whatever you want to call it.
that i had to have free will, because even really considering the possibility that i didn't have it would mean...well, there would be collapse.
in other words, i didn't understand 'surrender' but knew enough that for sure i didn't want to do it.
even though...
...on and on.
incoherence is painful and maddening, but if you don't just 'escape', it can be a great place to get in touch with unpalatable truths.
which then gave me a place of genuine foundation to build on.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
How is my GF today?
People always amaze me, both in their wonderfulness and their terribleness.
My favorite person always tell me that my Ex will have to go thru at least 20 more lives which I get a kick out of.
I have learned to try and not take it so personally, and to treat them as learnings -- every relationship is an assignment sort of thing. Now what my ******* Ex was sent to teach me is a mystery but I try...
People always amaze me, both in their wonderfulness and their terribleness.
My favorite person always tell me that my Ex will have to go thru at least 20 more lives which I get a kick out of.
I have learned to try and not take it so personally, and to treat them as learnings -- every relationship is an assignment sort of thing. Now what my ******* Ex was sent to teach me is a mystery but I try...
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I'm pretty tuckered out.
Found it difficult to think about driving past my old best friend Absolut; on the way home even thought that if my daughter's car wasn't here I'd drive right past and get myself some. But those were just thoughts and now I'm in my house getting ready for a quiet night with my Amazon Prime videos.
Someone at work remarked today, "You're quite chipper today." If only she knew what a stark contrast today was to last week. Glad she doesn't. Glad I stopped. Glad I'm taking my meds again.
So for today, I'm good.
Found it difficult to think about driving past my old best friend Absolut; on the way home even thought that if my daughter's car wasn't here I'd drive right past and get myself some. But those were just thoughts and now I'm in my house getting ready for a quiet night with my Amazon Prime videos.
Someone at work remarked today, "You're quite chipper today." If only she knew what a stark contrast today was to last week. Glad she doesn't. Glad I stopped. Glad I'm taking my meds again.
So for today, I'm good.
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