Relapse
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If you aren't ready to totally cut your therapist loose, have you thought of or tried specifically an addictions counselor in addition to him? Maybe you need some time and space and an outside face to face perspective on things and some more concerted efforts specifically towards the drinking, and leave even making a decision regarding your therapist alone for awhile. At least until you can figure out your plan of attack.
Why? Because I think your therapist is a trigger on the whole. Just leave it alone for now and try something different.
I just wanted to point out two things- first, you are getting all kinds of benefit from your therapist. Be it negative or positive or both, you are using it to feed an addiction. Whatever it is it doesn't matter, but you are getting some thing from it that you are finding it handy to make excuses for and use as an excuse (feeding your alcohol problem/mind) I think you should seriously consider just rerouting your course; no back tracking, just turn the corner for now onto Dealing With Drinking Street and you can decide later if or how you want to deal with this therapist. ^^ this I think is important. Do not think. Do not stop. Just turn right. If you think about each step you are just going to keep on standing in Drinksville thinking yourself to death.
Second, you recognize relapse mode. When you are sober think about what you thought and how you felt when you recognize you were in relapse mode.
Have you ever heard of the relapse ladder? If you haven't I can tell you about it. The only thinking you have to do is recognize your thoughts. Each rung of the ladder has a qualifier. You can look at each description of each rung to figure out how high up the ladder you are in terms of your thoughts and actions.
When you start recognizing where you are on the ladder then it gets easier to pick up the phone and reach out to someone BEFORE you drink.
This is different than over-analyzing. Just think things through enough and be honest with yourself, and then be honest with someone else. Some pause for careful thought will help stop the backward fall down the ladder, only you have to do it all the way through.
You know we don't need to be drunk to be stuck thinking alcoholically. I believe you said as much in one of your posts, relapse happens LONG before we pick up that drink. That means we have to put the work in before we do decide to drink.
I wonder if they have an Over-Thinkers Anonymous?
(I'd totally join you for that.)
Why? Because I think your therapist is a trigger on the whole. Just leave it alone for now and try something different.
I just wanted to point out two things- first, you are getting all kinds of benefit from your therapist. Be it negative or positive or both, you are using it to feed an addiction. Whatever it is it doesn't matter, but you are getting some thing from it that you are finding it handy to make excuses for and use as an excuse (feeding your alcohol problem/mind) I think you should seriously consider just rerouting your course; no back tracking, just turn the corner for now onto Dealing With Drinking Street and you can decide later if or how you want to deal with this therapist. ^^ this I think is important. Do not think. Do not stop. Just turn right. If you think about each step you are just going to keep on standing in Drinksville thinking yourself to death.
Second, you recognize relapse mode. When you are sober think about what you thought and how you felt when you recognize you were in relapse mode.
Have you ever heard of the relapse ladder? If you haven't I can tell you about it. The only thinking you have to do is recognize your thoughts. Each rung of the ladder has a qualifier. You can look at each description of each rung to figure out how high up the ladder you are in terms of your thoughts and actions.
When you start recognizing where you are on the ladder then it gets easier to pick up the phone and reach out to someone BEFORE you drink.
This is different than over-analyzing. Just think things through enough and be honest with yourself, and then be honest with someone else. Some pause for careful thought will help stop the backward fall down the ladder, only you have to do it all the way through.
You know we don't need to be drunk to be stuck thinking alcoholically. I believe you said as much in one of your posts, relapse happens LONG before we pick up that drink. That means we have to put the work in before we do decide to drink.
I wonder if they have an Over-Thinkers Anonymous?
(I'd totally join you for that.)
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Originally Posted by Aellyce 
Yeah... it's just so hard that I would have to cut the whole thing because of this particular situation. It's one of the most ordinary challenges therapists often face in their work, I can't believe that him, with the level of his experience, would get stuck in it. He published papers about this phenomenon, for god's sake, including case report where he experienced something similar and they resolved it. I think we should use the experience to figure out what is it in me/my behavior that induces his reaction, there are certainly things there given what a repetitive pattern it has been throughout my life. Use it that way to learn from it, both of us. I'm reluctant to let go of him without seriously attempting to work through it -- then the same might just happen again and again... As for why he is reacting this way just recently and not so much last year? I think because I've become quite fragile and vulnerable and that turns on a certain instinct/reaction in him. That's okay, but not acting out in ways that interferes with my recovery. It is definitely true though that now my focus has to be on staying sober no matter what, and if any sort of deep psychological work interferes with that, it has no place in my treatment right now. It's not even effective with someone who drinks actively or keeps relapsing, I think. Anyway, I'll talk to him about it again.
The meeting this morning was quite nice, a smaller group and I met someone very sympathetic, she gave me her number and I'll definitely call. Might go to another meeting in the evening. My husband is only back from his trip later at the weekend and being alone too much in the apartment may not be a good idea.
The meeting this morning was quite nice, a smaller group and I met someone very sympathetic, she gave me her number and I'll definitely call. Might go to another meeting in the evening. My husband is only back from his trip later at the weekend and being alone too much in the apartment may not be a good idea.
you identified earlier of wanting to be exceptional at (nearly) any cost.
A well-known therapist who publishes on this subject falling into the very thing
he's warning against does suggest you are beyond exceptional--at some level perhaps you are feeling that?
You also said have a history of affecting your therapists beyond the normal spectrum of doctor / patient,
which given your own qualities of intelligence, wit, and beauty is not surprising, but
what is workable when you are in solid sobriety is quite untenable in your
current fragile state, whatever it may invoke in him.
I agree w/ Delizadee that you are standing in Drunksville intellectualizing about the situation, and him, instead of getting to
Dealing With Drinking Street posthaste. You should leave him to sort out his unprofessional behavior himself--
one assumes such an accomplished person well able to do that--
and your really need to get totally focused on your own sobriety needs at this time.
Please be careful Aellyce--from where I sit, Delizadee is spot-on about this situation--
P.S. if there is an Over-Thinkers Anon, I'm certainly in
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Fini, Delizadee, Hawkeye -- you are definitely correct in your observations and suggestions. I'm so glad that I posted about the therapy thing here to get these insights even though they are responses to only my view on it and what I can present. I would like to follow the advice and really not analyze it further now. But yes I am definitely in for an OTA group 
And another AA meeting tonight. I think I should get involved in that more, instead of all the unhelpful stuff.
And another AA meeting tonight. I think I should get involved in that more, instead of all the unhelpful stuff.
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I'm just going to post about the relapse ladder in case it might help anyone. It has been very useful to me.
Are you on the relapse ladder
Relapse is at the top of a nine step ladder of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. The lowest rung is called happy memories . "Happy memories" means that you are thinking about the good times you had while you were using. The next rung up is called "I wasn't that bad ." This occurs when you tell yourself you weren't really that bad, that your addiction was someone else's fault, that your problem was caused by anything except your disease. The next rung higher is stopping treatment. This means that you cease going to meetings, you stop practicing the steps, you don't have time to see your therapist, you stop talking to your sponsor, you don't do your daily meditation. When you stop treatment, you pretend that you can stay sober by doing nothing. The fourth rung is called high risk situations . Examples are you return to the bar that you used to frequent, you begin hanging out with your old using friends, you spend long periods of time isolating in the basement where you used to drink vodka. You put yourself in these situations not thinking that you will use there, but just to experience the feeling of being there again. The fifth rung is called, emotional imbalance . During emotional imbalance, something causes you to get really angry, irritated or otherwise emotional and you remember how your drug, drink or behavior took away the pain of the emotion. You may even get really happy and you remember how you always drank to celebrate. Now you are really getting higher on the ladder, and like any ladder, the higher you go, the more dangerous the climb. Also, the higher you go, the more committed you are to reaching the top. The sixth rung is fantasizing. Now, you are spending increasing periods of your day thinking about using for no apparent reason. Fantasizing leads to the seventh rung, getting ready to use . This means you intend to use and you plan how you are going to relapse. You tell yourself that tonight when my husband is asleep, I am going to sneak out to the Bar. You make arrangements to buy drugs. You return to the internet porn site. You get dressed to go to the casino. You think through the exact steps of where you are going to go to get your drugs, drink, or act out. On the next rung, you actually get the drugs or order the drink. You acquire the tools of relapse. On this rung, you may feel a terrible panic, and unless you reach out to someone (which is now incredibly difficult to do because you are so committed to reaching the top), you step up to the final and ninth rung which is Relapse . As you know, the Relapse rung has a crack in it and cannot bear your weight. So you come crashing down. Sometimes the crash happens immediately. Sometimes, the crack worsens over time. But since there is a crack, you will fall. If you survive the fall, you will feel guilt at having relapsed. You will resolve to stop using. And unless you get treatment, you will start the terrible climb back up the relapse ladder beginning with the first rung which is...
If you are on the Relapse Ladder, you need to get off on the lowest rung possible BY TELLING ON YOUR DISEASE! Remember there are two parties involved in a relapse. There is you and there is your disease. If you tell someone that you may be on the Relapse Ladder, you are telling on your disease, not you. So, ask yourself if you are on any of the nine rungs. If so, say to yourself, "I must get off the ladder now" five times to yourself with increasing emphasis. Then pick up the phone and tell your trusted friend, confidant, therapist, or mentor which rung of the ladder you are on and that you want to get off. (Leaving a voicemail message also works). If you can’t connect with someone, read your recovery literature, pray to your Higher Power, write down which rung you are on and list the consequences which made you want to get sober in the first place. Do something recovery oriented and don't substitute your drug of choice with another drug or bad behavior lest you start a new addiction. Then try to connect with a supportive person as soon as possible. This process works regardless of your philosophical or religious beliefs. Remember, sharing with another doesn’t mean that you only reach out when you have a recognizable craving or urge to use. Sharing means that you reach out and discuss where you may be on the Relapse Ladder.
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Are you on the relapse ladder
Relapse is at the top of a nine step ladder of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. The lowest rung is called happy memories . "Happy memories" means that you are thinking about the good times you had while you were using. The next rung up is called "I wasn't that bad ." This occurs when you tell yourself you weren't really that bad, that your addiction was someone else's fault, that your problem was caused by anything except your disease. The next rung higher is stopping treatment. This means that you cease going to meetings, you stop practicing the steps, you don't have time to see your therapist, you stop talking to your sponsor, you don't do your daily meditation. When you stop treatment, you pretend that you can stay sober by doing nothing. The fourth rung is called high risk situations . Examples are you return to the bar that you used to frequent, you begin hanging out with your old using friends, you spend long periods of time isolating in the basement where you used to drink vodka. You put yourself in these situations not thinking that you will use there, but just to experience the feeling of being there again. The fifth rung is called, emotional imbalance . During emotional imbalance, something causes you to get really angry, irritated or otherwise emotional and you remember how your drug, drink or behavior took away the pain of the emotion. You may even get really happy and you remember how you always drank to celebrate. Now you are really getting higher on the ladder, and like any ladder, the higher you go, the more dangerous the climb. Also, the higher you go, the more committed you are to reaching the top. The sixth rung is fantasizing. Now, you are spending increasing periods of your day thinking about using for no apparent reason. Fantasizing leads to the seventh rung, getting ready to use . This means you intend to use and you plan how you are going to relapse. You tell yourself that tonight when my husband is asleep, I am going to sneak out to the Bar. You make arrangements to buy drugs. You return to the internet porn site. You get dressed to go to the casino. You think through the exact steps of where you are going to go to get your drugs, drink, or act out. On the next rung, you actually get the drugs or order the drink. You acquire the tools of relapse. On this rung, you may feel a terrible panic, and unless you reach out to someone (which is now incredibly difficult to do because you are so committed to reaching the top), you step up to the final and ninth rung which is Relapse . As you know, the Relapse rung has a crack in it and cannot bear your weight. So you come crashing down. Sometimes the crash happens immediately. Sometimes, the crack worsens over time. But since there is a crack, you will fall. If you survive the fall, you will feel guilt at having relapsed. You will resolve to stop using. And unless you get treatment, you will start the terrible climb back up the relapse ladder beginning with the first rung which is...
If you are on the Relapse Ladder, you need to get off on the lowest rung possible BY TELLING ON YOUR DISEASE! Remember there are two parties involved in a relapse. There is you and there is your disease. If you tell someone that you may be on the Relapse Ladder, you are telling on your disease, not you. So, ask yourself if you are on any of the nine rungs. If so, say to yourself, "I must get off the ladder now" five times to yourself with increasing emphasis. Then pick up the phone and tell your trusted friend, confidant, therapist, or mentor which rung of the ladder you are on and that you want to get off. (Leaving a voicemail message also works). If you can’t connect with someone, read your recovery literature, pray to your Higher Power, write down which rung you are on and list the consequences which made you want to get sober in the first place. Do something recovery oriented and don't substitute your drug of choice with another drug or bad behavior lest you start a new addiction. Then try to connect with a supportive person as soon as possible. This process works regardless of your philosophical or religious beliefs. Remember, sharing with another doesn’t mean that you only reach out when you have a recognizable craving or urge to use. Sharing means that you reach out and discuss where you may be on the Relapse Ladder.
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Thanks a lot, Delizadee! Lots of truth and valuable practical advice in there, I was not familiar with this before.
One of the parts that really resonates with me today:
I can't decide whether having a break from that therapist would be good for me or it would be like in the above quote, cutting myself off one of the treatments that was so helpful for a year until this recent phase. I know that it would be a bit traumatic for me to cut it now, whatever the situation and what I really would want to do is work through it, resolve the damn thing, and then move on with therapy while focusing on my sobriety. I see validity and truth in all the suggestions here but I also know it would be stressful to now lose the therapist as well. Really hard for me to decide what's best, I think I'll give it a bit more time, won't have a session anyway until next week.
That Relapse Ladder sounds a bit like a fusion of AVRT and AA type approaches, which I liked to create myself in the past, mixing and matching things I found helpful instead of following any one traditional approach. I am just now quite skeptical whether "my way" is still what is best to create/follow since something has obviously failed in it lately.
One of the parts that really resonates with me today:
And unless you get treatment, you will start the terrible climb back up the relapse ladder beginning with the first rung which is...
That Relapse Ladder sounds a bit like a fusion of AVRT and AA type approaches, which I liked to create myself in the past, mixing and matching things I found helpful instead of following any one traditional approach. I am just now quite skeptical whether "my way" is still what is best to create/follow since something has obviously failed in it lately.
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Instead of playing the thinking game with the 'my way' thought, try thinking of it as a multi faceted approach.
I think the trap we addicts get into especially with thinking is we see things very black and white. Which is what I'm reading in your last post.
Colour the drawing board grey for now. Stop trying to qualify methods as right or wrong. If you are fearful of severing the tie with your therapist, keep it for now but can you add in another counselor like an addictions counselor in the mean time? A fresh perspective with a concentrated approach to one problem may help reset the sobriety switch. Then you can pick back up where you left off with therapy.
In terms of the my way, our best thinking got us here.
We all find our own way with one end in mind right?
Just throwing some thoughts out there... it helps me too. Sometimes we need to cast a bigger net out there to catch the bigger fish we're after.
I think the trap we addicts get into especially with thinking is we see things very black and white. Which is what I'm reading in your last post.
Colour the drawing board grey for now. Stop trying to qualify methods as right or wrong. If you are fearful of severing the tie with your therapist, keep it for now but can you add in another counselor like an addictions counselor in the mean time? A fresh perspective with a concentrated approach to one problem may help reset the sobriety switch. Then you can pick back up where you left off with therapy.
In terms of the my way, our best thinking got us here.
We all find our own way with one end in mind right?
Just throwing some thoughts out there... it helps me too. Sometimes we need to cast a bigger net out there to catch the bigger fish we're after.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
I'm interested in commenting on your therapeutic dilemma, Aellyce, but I'll wait until I have sufficient time to do so. I also don't like commenting on what happens in a particular therapy session or over the long-run since therapy sessions are often reported through a very subjective prism that allows for a wealth of distortion. I've no doubt that some of my patients' versions of what happened during our sessions would have made me sound as though I needed immediate and intensive help. At times, and when the opportunity presents itself, I'll talk about a patient's experience in a recent session, only to wonder whether or not we were in the same room during that hour.
For now, I'll just say that I don't know that ending your therapy at what is a crucial time -- both because of the issues that you are currently raising with your therapist and your recent losses -- is a good idea. Feelings between patients and their therapists are only remarkable when they do not occur, though these feelings are not always aired in the sessions. Many things occur in the consulting room that are the result of transference and countertransference, feelings from older experiences and conflicts with important figures in our lives, many of which remain unresolved.
I do, also, want to leave you with one more thing. You have a tendency to place people who you perceive as possessing a higher or unique intelligence, particularly the psychologists and psychiatrists in your life, many of whom are part of your professional life, on pedestals. You did, after all, marry a psychologist. The one thing about idealizing people is that they'll always disappoint you. And placing someone on a pedestal is often at the root of a hidden resentment which, in turn, motivates us to knock them off their (largely or superficially) involuntary perch.
For now, I'd recommend that you don't place undue pressure on yourself to make a decision around this issue, and continue to do what you need to do to remain sober.
For now, I'll just say that I don't know that ending your therapy at what is a crucial time -- both because of the issues that you are currently raising with your therapist and your recent losses -- is a good idea. Feelings between patients and their therapists are only remarkable when they do not occur, though these feelings are not always aired in the sessions. Many things occur in the consulting room that are the result of transference and countertransference, feelings from older experiences and conflicts with important figures in our lives, many of which remain unresolved.
I do, also, want to leave you with one more thing. You have a tendency to place people who you perceive as possessing a higher or unique intelligence, particularly the psychologists and psychiatrists in your life, many of whom are part of your professional life, on pedestals. You did, after all, marry a psychologist. The one thing about idealizing people is that they'll always disappoint you. And placing someone on a pedestal is often at the root of a hidden resentment which, in turn, motivates us to knock them off their (largely or superficially) involuntary perch.
For now, I'd recommend that you don't place undue pressure on yourself to make a decision around this issue, and continue to do what you need to do to remain sober.
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You guys and flooding me with excellent observations today, I am really grateful for it but I won't get to responding to everything in detail just now because that would be yet another manifestation of my obsessions.
Yeah EndGame, but finally you have commented quite a bit Kinda funny how I keep acting out that ancient pattern, right? And how I manage to find ways (and people) for it. See, this is exactly why I would be very reluctant to dump my therapist, when I am just in the middle of a situation where we could really explore this. I know a lot about it already but obviously I keep getting into it. On the psychologists and psychiatrists -- well that is just the trend of the last 5-6 years, before that they were in other professions but the basic pattern is the same. Now they tend to be psychologists and psychiatrists because I am surrounded by them due to my own work and find them easily even elsewhere via my interests. Earlier, I also found people fitting this pattern mostly through professional life, just other fields. There would be a lot to say about all that but not for this post.
As for the biases and subjective perceptions when looking at the therapy experiences from two sides -- I totally agree with that. That's actually the part I tend to like best when it comes to working with it (the transference and countertransference mentioned) and I purposefully chose a therapy approach that uses those heavily. It's only one reason why I would not want to dump it, because it's clear it's just one of those phases. You can probably imagine that I can also be quite provocative, so surprise if I get reactions to it? I don't see it as unethical and I am not surprised that my therapist does not immediately implement a change in working with me in this regard given how well I responded to that type of work for a whole year before and how interested in it. But I should not use that to justify drinking now (no matter how the experience may tap into something I used to "drink over" somewhere in the past) or other forms of acting out.
I think what's best for me now is not making big changes except cutting out drinking completely and making extra, focused efforts to keep it it that way. It would really be a mistake to blow any part of my life when things in general are going well and I have so many things going for me that are totally in line with what I wanted earlier in recovery, except of course the relapse. I feel that the best might be adding to it protective measures and not taking away from it (again, except for the drinking binges).
Yeah EndGame, but finally you have commented quite a bit
Kinda funny how I keep acting out that ancient pattern, right? And how I manage to find ways (and people) for it. See, this is exactly why I would be very reluctant to dump my therapist, when I am just in the middle of a situation where we could really explore this. I know a lot about it already but obviously I keep getting into it. On the psychologists and psychiatrists -- well that is just the trend of the last 5-6 years, before that they were in other professions but the basic pattern is the same. Now they tend to be psychologists and psychiatrists because I am surrounded by them due to my own work and find them easily even elsewhere via my interests. Earlier, I also found people fitting this pattern mostly through professional life, just other fields. There would be a lot to say about all that but not for this post.As for the biases and subjective perceptions when looking at the therapy experiences from two sides -- I totally agree with that. That's actually the part I tend to like best when it comes to working with it (the transference and countertransference mentioned) and I purposefully chose a therapy approach that uses those heavily. It's only one reason why I would not want to dump it, because it's clear it's just one of those phases. You can probably imagine that I can also be quite provocative, so surprise if I get reactions to it? I don't see it as unethical and I am not surprised that my therapist does not immediately implement a change in working with me in this regard given how well I responded to that type of work for a whole year before and how interested in it. But I should not use that to justify drinking now (no matter how the experience may tap into something I used to "drink over" somewhere in the past) or other forms of acting out.
I think what's best for me now is not making big changes except cutting out drinking completely and making extra, focused efforts to keep it it that way. It would really be a mistake to blow any part of my life when things in general are going well and I have so many things going for me that are totally in line with what I wanted earlier in recovery, except of course the relapse. I feel that the best might be adding to it protective measures and not taking away from it (again, except for the drinking binges).
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"There are two key phenomena that maintain addiction — withdrawal, and consummation. They work together as carrot and stick, keeping us spinning on the axis of addiction, much as the Earth rotates on its axis. Withdrawal and consummation become our new sunset and sunrise, as if life itself depends upon the drug.
There is an obvious solution to this dilemma, which is to fall off the axis and to stay off, but the addictive voice will say anything to conceal this simple solution from us. Once off, the AV will then say anything to get us back on the axis." [A quote from Terminally Unique back in 2012]
xx Vic
There is an obvious solution to this dilemma, which is to fall off the axis and to stay off, but the addictive voice will say anything to conceal this simple solution from us. Once off, the AV will then say anything to get us back on the axis." [A quote from Terminally Unique back in 2012]
xx Vic
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So on the action front. I went to another meeting last night, that was a SMART meeting. I think I'll vary the meeting types I attend. I like SMART in general because I like when my recovery tools include pragmatic elements and skills that I can use in everyday reality no matter where I am. Unfortunately they are quite scarce but I think it's worth it for me to make the effort to go when I can. And I'll also go to Refuge Recovery meetings as that's something that clicks with me quite well conceptually. And AA as well as those meetings are the easiest to access.
Also contacted a few inpatient rehab facilities yesterday. Traveling would not be an issue for me either so there would be many options to go very soon if I wanted to. I'll wait with this a few days though because I just don't want to blow my work unless it's absolutely necessary -- only about a week left and the stressful deadlines are over for a while. If I decided not to finish all this stuff and just go to rehab, there would be serious long term consequences that I may or may not be able to fix later. So my instincts and risk-benefit analysis right now suggest that it's best to now wrap up the things while attending meetings and revisit the rehab idea a bit later. Acute high stress situations and busy work schedule with pressing deadlines tend to be more on the lower-than-average risk side for me when it comes to wanting to drink so I'm not that worried about the coming week. My triggers tend to be much more when something is finished or successful -- so I'll need to make a plan also for the days when all this current work craze is finally over and I can breath a bit. I think that will be the true challenge. I'm thinking, perhaps even if I don't do a classic ~3 weeks in rehab, maybe I could go for something like 7-10 days as a "reward" when I have completed this work load? I imagine what some of you might be thinking now... why should everything I can up with be unusual? I don't know... these are the things that come to my mind naturally and effortlessly.
As for the therapist, I'll talk to him next week. I have no other issue with him than when he opposed my getting professional treatment elsewhere or even other one-on-one like working with a sponsor. But there is no need to ask his opinion or even permission for what else I want to do for my recovery. I would still tell him as facts because I don't like to hide things, but probably it's best to keep him in his role that does not need to be all-encompassing. I'm still very interested in working through the issues (and conflicts) that have come up recently in my therapy -- it's not the first time something is challenging and we disagree, and often the best result comes from challenging situations for me. Would really be a shame to run away from it now. I think I got a bit too paranoid about the whole thing, in part probably due to the increased anxiety that the aftermath of my drinking binges induced, but I feel okay now. I don't think I idealize him or feel disappointed; I researched the heck out of myself before I found this guy in the first place and if anything, I think I tend to be quite critical about mental health professionals and very selective as to who I would work with as a patient. But he undeniably has some qualities that many others don't. For example, exactly the fact that he is so open and interested in talking about pretty much any feeling that comes up in therapy and between us, including those that may not seem too "kosher" superficially. My side or his side. And use these things as fodder for therapy. This is definitely a feature that many won't be willing to do so openly, my previous therapist for example, who tended to remain either defensive or unresponsive about his end of the construct, especially when I challenged him about it. That did not work for me after a while and I would be reluctant to get rid of someone that did for a small thing that I can resolve on my own (getting the help for my addiction without asking him). No one is perfect and I really don't think I tend to assume that they are or supposed to be.
Again, thanks a lot everyone for the support, insight and suggestions on this thread, it's appreciated beyond words!
Also contacted a few inpatient rehab facilities yesterday. Traveling would not be an issue for me either so there would be many options to go very soon if I wanted to. I'll wait with this a few days though because I just don't want to blow my work unless it's absolutely necessary -- only about a week left and the stressful deadlines are over for a while. If I decided not to finish all this stuff and just go to rehab, there would be serious long term consequences that I may or may not be able to fix later. So my instincts and risk-benefit analysis right now suggest that it's best to now wrap up the things while attending meetings and revisit the rehab idea a bit later. Acute high stress situations and busy work schedule with pressing deadlines tend to be more on the lower-than-average risk side for me when it comes to wanting to drink so I'm not that worried about the coming week. My triggers tend to be much more when something is finished or successful -- so I'll need to make a plan also for the days when all this current work craze is finally over and I can breath a bit. I think that will be the true challenge. I'm thinking, perhaps even if I don't do a classic ~3 weeks in rehab, maybe I could go for something like 7-10 days as a "reward" when I have completed this work load? I imagine what some of you might be thinking now... why should everything I can up with be unusual? I don't know... these are the things that come to my mind naturally and effortlessly.
As for the therapist, I'll talk to him next week. I have no other issue with him than when he opposed my getting professional treatment elsewhere or even other one-on-one like working with a sponsor. But there is no need to ask his opinion or even permission for what else I want to do for my recovery. I would still tell him as facts because I don't like to hide things, but probably it's best to keep him in his role that does not need to be all-encompassing. I'm still very interested in working through the issues (and conflicts) that have come up recently in my therapy -- it's not the first time something is challenging and we disagree, and often the best result comes from challenging situations for me. Would really be a shame to run away from it now. I think I got a bit too paranoid about the whole thing, in part probably due to the increased anxiety that the aftermath of my drinking binges induced, but I feel okay now. I don't think I idealize him or feel disappointed; I researched the heck out of myself before I found this guy in the first place and if anything, I think I tend to be quite critical about mental health professionals and very selective as to who I would work with as a patient. But he undeniably has some qualities that many others don't. For example, exactly the fact that he is so open and interested in talking about pretty much any feeling that comes up in therapy and between us, including those that may not seem too "kosher" superficially. My side or his side. And use these things as fodder for therapy. This is definitely a feature that many won't be willing to do so openly, my previous therapist for example, who tended to remain either defensive or unresponsive about his end of the construct, especially when I challenged him about it. That did not work for me after a while and I would be reluctant to get rid of someone that did for a small thing that I can resolve on my own (getting the help for my addiction without asking him). No one is perfect and I really don't think I tend to assume that they are or supposed to be.
Again, thanks a lot everyone for the support, insight and suggestions on this thread, it's appreciated beyond words!
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One more for today So my husband is coming back this afternoon. I told him about the gross drinking alone earlier this week. I will go meet him at the airport. Why can't I/we wait? Dunno, guess there is something romantic about meeting at the airport of our home city out of necessity. I can't wait to see him and he said he would love to spend even the taxi ride from the airport to home with me, so I'll do that. He also said he'll come with me to an open AA meeting tonight.
Hopefully some fun after that but mostly good rest and sleep -- it's been an intense week.
So my husband is coming back this afternoon. I told him about the gross drinking alone earlier this week. I will go meet him at the airport. Why can't I/we wait? Dunno, guess there is something romantic about meeting at the airport of our home city out of necessity. I can't wait to see him and he said he would love to spend even the taxi ride from the airport to home with me, so I'll do that. He also said he'll come with me to an open AA meeting tonight.Hopefully some fun after that but mostly good rest and sleep -- it's been an intense week.
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Well, even if most of you are suggesting that thinking more is unnecessary here and I am inclined to agree as I get tired with myself as well, I feel that thinking through my relapse and all these things I've brought up recently here has provided some much needed clarity. And the feedback has helped a lot even though I don't always recognize / acknowledge the most important stuff in the moment.
I am having quite a hard time readjusting after the relapse. I definitely share the view many members here described, that coming back from a relapse after some considerable sober time is more difficult than getting sober in the first place was. It's like this relapse disrupted something in my integrity and perspective and I am having a hard time re-finding it or finding a way again that works and keeps me inspired. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my mental state had already been quite unstable prior to the relapse with intense fluctuations that are still not treated. I definitely did not have this sense of loss and low level of hope when I got sober for the first time. Which is, of course, a good enough reason to do everything I can to maintain my sobriety now so that the losses won't accumulate further. Just a bit hard to find a real anchor, I think all the stuff in my life I try to use as anchors feel a bit lacking the power now even though they are obviously important and I would not want to inflict additional damage. Maybe I'm just in a depressive kind of spell of the roller coaster now. I do drag my butt to a meeting every day at least.
I am having quite a hard time readjusting after the relapse. I definitely share the view many members here described, that coming back from a relapse after some considerable sober time is more difficult than getting sober in the first place was. It's like this relapse disrupted something in my integrity and perspective and I am having a hard time re-finding it or finding a way again that works and keeps me inspired. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my mental state had already been quite unstable prior to the relapse with intense fluctuations that are still not treated. I definitely did not have this sense of loss and low level of hope when I got sober for the first time. Which is, of course, a good enough reason to do everything I can to maintain my sobriety now so that the losses won't accumulate further. Just a bit hard to find a real anchor, I think all the stuff in my life I try to use as anchors feel a bit lacking the power now even though they are obviously important and I would not want to inflict additional damage. Maybe I'm just in a depressive kind of spell of the roller coaster now. I do drag my butt to a meeting every day at least.
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Glad to hear you're going to meetings, Aellyce.
I can imagine regaining your footing is harder this time around. But not impossible. Not impossible by a long shot.
We're left to ourselves, really, to find what you aptly describe as our anchors. But there are many here to help you find it and hold on tight to it. You've done that for many others here on SR and we'll do that for you, friend.
I can imagine regaining your footing is harder this time around. But not impossible. Not impossible by a long shot.
We're left to ourselves, really, to find what you aptly describe as our anchors. But there are many here to help you find it and hold on tight to it. You've done that for many others here on SR and we'll do that for you, friend.
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
You can do it--be your own anchor.
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
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Originally Posted by Aellyce
It's like this relapse disrupted something in my integrity and perspective and I am having a hard time re-finding it or finding a way again that works and keeps me inspired.
It took an extreme disruption in my life, that could have cost me my life, to rattle me into getting serious about sobriety this time around. For the first time in 12 years, I'm about to reach a year of sobriety in 2 weeks. I hope you do not allow this illness to take you to that extreme and will use the necessary tools (I believe you already have access to them) to maintain your sobriety again. I know you can do this!
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Originally Posted by GetMeOut
I dealt with this a lot when I relapsed after 2 years of sobriety back in 2004. I never managed more than 6 months of sobriety after that, usually only a few weeks to a couple of months. It was like I lost momentum and all the things that inspired me to stay sober those 2 years had disintegrated. Adding to that, it was during the first few years after relapsing that I became physiologically dependent on alcohol for the first time. I had never experienced withdrawals before.
It took an extreme disruption in my life, that could have cost me my life, to rattle me into getting serious about sobriety this time around. For the first time in 12 years, I'm about to reach a year of sobriety in 2 weeks. I hope you do not allow this illness to take you to that extreme and will use the necessary tools (I believe you already have access to them) to maintain your sobriety again. I know you can do this!
It took an extreme disruption in my life, that could have cost me my life, to rattle me into getting serious about sobriety this time around. For the first time in 12 years, I'm about to reach a year of sobriety in 2 weeks. I hope you do not allow this illness to take you to that extreme and will use the necessary tools (I believe you already have access to them) to maintain your sobriety again. I know you can do this!
But if anyone else can add more "horror stories" that I don't know yet, please don't hesitate. Scare the heck out of me! I typically respond quite well to fear when it comes to pulling my sh*t together in an acute manner, at least I have in many cases so far.
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I was also thinking, is acceptance (that I can't and won't drink) a problem for me? From all I am able to access in my mind, it does not seem to be. I was very good at that before the relapse and also now whenever I am not under the influence. There is nothing about active alcoholism or being able to drink sometimes that I desire consciously. No thought about moderation whatsoever. And the consequences of it feel extremely repulsive to me. What happens or, more precisely, what I did during my relapse each time was acting out a sudden impulse, very quickly. But at the same time I don't act out most of the drinking urges. So, really hard to predict or foresee what I need to pay special attention to. I can have cravings pretty much anytime, day or night, out of the blue and outside of those few minutes all my conscious awareness absolutely despises drinking. Zero illusions that I could have a few, or would want to have a few. Each time I drank recently, I started with an impulsive but fully aware decision that it will be at least a bottle of liquor. No interest in a mild buzz or relaxation, social drinking, etc. When I want it in those moments, I want to be hit by it till oblivion.
I think one new thing I can try is to call someone each time I have a craving, regardless whether I consider it a high risk or lower risk one -- so far I have not done that. I believe it would have to be a phone call, I think posting on here would not cut it based on how quickly I acted on those impulses. It's really those damn momentary cravings and impulsive choice/action that get me now.
Anyhow, I'm a week sober again now and hope to keep it that way!
I think one new thing I can try is to call someone each time I have a craving, regardless whether I consider it a high risk or lower risk one -- so far I have not done that. I believe it would have to be a phone call, I think posting on here would not cut it based on how quickly I acted on those impulses. It's really those damn momentary cravings and impulsive choice/action that get me now.
Anyhow, I'm a week sober again now and hope to keep it that way!
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Originally Posted by Aellyce
I was also thinking, is acceptance (that I can't and won't drink) a problem for me? From all I am able to access in my mind, it does not seem to be. I was very good at that before the relapse and also now whenever I am not under the influence. There is nothing about active alcoholism or being able to drink sometimes that I desire consciously. No thought about moderation whatsoever. And the consequences of it feel extremely repulsive to me. What happens or, more precisely, what I did during my relapse each time was acting out a sudden impulse, very quickly. But at the same time I don't act out most of the drinking urges. So, really hard to predict or foresee what I need to pay special attention to. I can have cravings pretty much anytime, day or night, out of the blue and outside of those few minutes all my conscious awareness absolutely despises drinking. Zero illusions that I could have a few, or would want to have a few. Each time I drank recently, I started with an impulsive but fully aware decision that it will be at least a bottle of liquor. No interest in a mild buzz or relaxation, social drinking, etc. When I want it in those moments, I want to be hit by it till oblivion.
I think one new thing I can try is to call someone each time I have a craving, regardless whether I consider it a high risk or lower risk one -- so far I have not done that. I believe it would have to be a phone call, I think posting on here would not cut it based on how quickly I acted on those impulses. It's really those damn momentary cravings and impulsive choice/action that get me now.
Anyhow, I'm a week sober again now and hope to keep it that way!
I think one new thing I can try is to call someone each time I have a craving, regardless whether I consider it a high risk or lower risk one -- so far I have not done that. I believe it would have to be a phone call, I think posting on here would not cut it based on how quickly I acted on those impulses. It's really those damn momentary cravings and impulsive choice/action that get me now.
Anyhow, I'm a week sober again now and hope to keep it that way!
I was trying to pick which parts of your last post to quote but I can relate to pretty much all of it. I often described my relapses as some voice within (the Addictive Voice) that issues an order, without warning, and I obediently carry it out without delay. Rarely was there any real thought put into the act, although I do think, subconsciously, some preliminary process does take place that opens the door to the potential for taking a drink. In AA, I've heard many say that when we relapse, we've probably already gotten drunk in our minds beforehand, whether we're aware of it or not.
I've also often heard it said that we have to arrive at that point where we accept the fact that we can no longer consume alcohol in any quantity, or under any circumstances. I've been at that point for a number of years. What frightened me more is that I knew full well alcohol would make me crazy. I knew I was going to buy a 5th of vodka and drink the entire thing. I was under no delusion that I would take a few drinks and stop, and I knew I was going to go get more. What I did often forget was the unbearable, debilitating sickness, constant fatigue, insomnia, paranoia, etc. that goes along with it. I'd remember that those things happen, but forget the essence of how they felt. Beyond acknowledging that, I could safely say I preferred crazy to sane.
I agree that calling someone would be beneficial, and I also agree that coming here for that type of support would probably fall short of the end goal. Aside from the time it takes for someone to respond, there is a greater feeling of isolation associated with anonymity. I know if I were to call my sponsor, it would likely result in a visit. He'd be "in my face" about it. Not in an angry way, but actively trying to talk me out of making a huge mistake. I don't recall reading this is any of your previous posts, but do you have a sponsor?
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