Soberwolf

I got my eye on you jquallie

courage2

Amends to sleepie.

Quite a while ago, I was riffing on art on the forum, and wrote that art required an audience. I'd been thinking in a very abstract way -- my version of self-soothing -- and the idea of a receiver seemed necessary, maybe because I crave external validation. Whatever my thoughts at the time, it was my perception that I pissed you off, sleepie -- either I just annoyed the hell out of you, or you thought I was being personal, or I'm wrong in my perception, which is often the case. I can't say I didn't mean to cause offense, because one of my many character defects is that I occasionally like to stir the pot, as it were, but I didn't mean to cause personal offense.

For what it's worth, I'm actually now liking the idea of the artist as its own audience. "I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space." If you can achieve that, I admire you for it.

And thanks for giving me something to think about.

trachemys

Cou, I used to lay on the ground and sketch tiny plants. My art teacher didn't appreciate the scale. I asked, "Does art have to be on a grand scale?"

Stunned her.

courage2

Compulsive thinking, behavior. Cow asked me about it, you dear thing, and I was evasive.

I chew on things that eat me up. I get a thrill not so much from physical danger (with a nod to extreme sports, Dee), but humiliation and degeneracy. Let’s face it, it’s the truth. There’s something in me that’s really nasty—maybe I liked it too much when my father gave me a spanking.

Whatever, it’s been there a long, long time. It was in the way I drank and used. I didn’t start civilized– I liked hard liquor straight from the bottle from when I was a kid, all by myself, and buying street drugs, and taking things I didn’t know their names, and screwing people who were lowdown strangers. I used alcohol as part of looking for trouble – maybe in the beginning it was partly a way to make trouble seem easy, but mostly it was an excuse to keep finding it.

So I’m a trouble-maker. But I’m also slightly co-dependent. So I end up getting off on making trouble mostly for myself. What can I do that will most likely make me miserable?

I’ve got myself in a thing now where I’ve dredged up a little motivation to live by planning to do something pretty vile in the near future. I mean, maybe it’s not that vile. I suppose it depends on whom you ask. If I made a movie, it would appeal only to a very specialized audience LOL.

So then we get to self-loathing. Because of all that nonsense w/the 12 steps and stuff, I now associate drinking with immorality. And planning to behave badly, stone cold sober, turns my mind to drinking. And thinking to drink, turns me pretty quick to thinking of suicide, because drink is the death of me, so might as well take the shortcut.

Suicide not today, but it seems inevitable eventually. Which doesn’t seem that bad a deal, if I can just choose the time & means sensibly instead of out of insanity.

Maybe it's a bad sign that I honestly am not sure now if this way of thinking is a problem. Does it seem like a problem to you all? Cow?

So, who’s your favorite suicide?

Or, back to borscht!

trachemys

Cou, consider alternatives.

Lying in the grass sketching tiny plants vs. drinking oneself to death.

Cow

Bunny, thank you for such raw honesties. I also grapple with thoughts that would be consider vile by others, as well as thoughts of self harm and suicide. Is like dirty little secret we not suppose to speak about, but almost all damaged addicts, compulsives and/or depressives I know think about this ALL THE TIME.

I think when you is brutalized/violated at young age, even though it total heinous, it so intense (stimulating in horrific way) that it become wired in you, and you maybe is wired to and seek out this hyper-deranged stimulation for rest of you life, even though you know it unhealthy and demoralizing.

How this get undone, I not know. I struggling my self.

courage2

The drinking-to-death method is way too slow & painful -- learned that lesson.

sleepie

You may want to read "Drugs Are Nice" by Lisa Carver, Courage. You may find it cathartic.

Lenina

I think about those things daily. I don't obsess over it as much, it comforts me to know I have a way out. I would never harm myself as those who do care for me would be hurt as well.

But, to be totally honest, I wake up with the thought "still here. Crap"

Acknowledged, dismissed and I continue. One day my ride will come.

Love from Lenina

sleepie

You all need a sense of revenge. It keeps me going. I am going to tell my story and out my abusers sometime and each sober day gets me closer.

Where's your fight?

It maddens me that all the former cutting, self abuse and drinking can be traced back to early abuses. They get to win while they aren't even present?

Nope.

courage2

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone, among other sober people. I don't mind those thoughts and other stuff so much if I know people can successfully live with them and stay sober.

Sleepie, thanks for turning me on to Suckdog. The late 80s were kind of lost on me. But my current fav suicide might be Lisa Carver's big sister, Wendy O. Williams!

Cow

I too anhedonic to feel for "revenge," Sleepies. And plus also, my papa is 80 and frail and not altogether with it now. Alls I can feel about him is, well, mostly nothing, or pity, or sometime disgust.

Nobody has won. But I definitely has lost.

I not have fight in me, either. I sorry. "Fight" never serve me, so I get by on manipulation, humor, lies, smarts, and (please no throw up in you mouth a little) charm. It all fake or mostly fake or I don't know. Maybe someday I find out who Cow really is.

trachemys

I am my past,sleepie.

courage2

I wasn't abused. Depending on what you mean by abused, I mean some people would say I was, and people definitely did things to me that were illegal. But don't we all do those?

sleepie

Some of those are fight Cow, just passive aggressive.

I have yet to master these things, I usually throw in the towel and turn my back on everything and do solitary art making, usually I turn out happier for it.
I am lucky these days my bf is a total enabler when it comes to this. I could get by for a week without seeing another human face or talking to one except for the one who makes my coffee. I don't even care if that's bad, I love it.

sleepie

Ω

sleepie

That's an omega sign my keyboard made when I wiped tea off it just now. So I shared.

Jsbodhi

I grew up in an abusive environment at times ( depending on who my moms boyfriend was at the time)
It was great when it was just my mom and I.
But things got shady because she has literally the worst taste in men.
Total predators.

I hated myself too for a long time as was really self destructive- same as you courage, running the streets at 13, going to raves, using meth, acid, mushrooms, alcohol, ecstasy..... I'm lucky alcohol was the only one that hooked me.
I won't go too much into it because I don't like it and it makes me feel weird.

I don't really have much advice on how to change it.
I really love my life and I like myself a lot now, I'm happy, but to be honest I'm not exactly sure how I got here

I guess what I did/ do was just do things that made me happy, travel, books, university.
I sometimes have days where I start thinking about the past and I guess I just try to shake it off.
I pen pal with inmates in USA- killers, robbers.
People think it's weird, but to me it's not because I guess I understand it wouldn't have taken much for me to get there too.
I understand when they talk about rage, revenge, spite, shame, hope.
Most people that know me have no idea about this stuff at all.


My mom is a really good mom, but she made some bad choices in men, I've forgiven her for that.
I used to be really mad at her- but I realized she was just looking for love- at any cost.

Like I said, I don't really have any words of wisdom, but I wanted you to know I get it- at least some of it.

I'll just read now- this is probably the most anyone will ever get out of me about this haha

Cow

It just my way of survival, Sleepies. Like what you doing. But for me, I not love it. It painful and not way I wish to live. Sobriety brings awareness that I not ever will have true intimate relationship, will never trust, will never have so many thing that I see other enjoy. My only enabler is my self, and she all up in my face! Not can put anything past that bitch!

Thank you for you sharing Jbo.

trachemys

Dammit Cow, reach. We're here.