Moderation Management
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
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Originally Posted by Weatherman77 
HBO did a great documentary on Diane Schuler called "There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane" (her niece's final message). It's available, in the US at least, on Amazon Prime. Terrible to see the denial in the family, but worth a watch for all who considered themselves "functional" alcoholics.
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I personally think counting drinks and whatnot, trying to stay within some defined "moderate" level of drinking, is a helluva lot more time and mental energy than quitting entirely, and it sure didn't work for me after I passed the threshold into "heavy" regular drinking. And, normal "light" drinkers probably think the whole concept is strange, because they don't spend that sort of time and mental energy on drinking either.
But perhaps it does work for some people, and if it does, good for them. I look at it like I look at abstinence-based recovery philosophies and programs - whatever works for you is what you should do.
The people for whom moderation management can't work (which is probably most of us here) usually try it at some point, and eventually discover that it doesn't work - but when we're locked in addiction, it can seem like a solution, and it certainly seems less scary than abstinence.
But perhaps it does work for some people, and if it does, good for them. I look at it like I look at abstinence-based recovery philosophies and programs - whatever works for you is what you should do.
The people for whom moderation management can't work (which is probably most of us here) usually try it at some point, and eventually discover that it doesn't work - but when we're locked in addiction, it can seem like a solution, and it certainly seems less scary than abstinence.
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Originally Posted by JeffreyAK
The people for whom moderation management can't work (which is probably most of us here) usually try it at some point, and eventually discover that it doesn't work - but when we're locked in addiction, it can seem like a solution, and it certainly seems less scary than abstinence.
None of them ever worked for long, every single time I ended up binge drinking every day within short order.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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Originally Posted by Bunny211
Once again. I posted this because I struggle with my AV daily and was actually researching how I could possibly drink again at some point. I came upon this and it scared me! I posted this in the hopes that it might help keep someone else sober.
as long as ya dont believe that voice and keep doing what youve been doing, the 10th step promises will happen.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
could that be the mental obsession the bb talks about?
as long as ya dont believe that voice and keep doing what youve been doing, the 10th step promises will happen.
as long as ya dont believe that voice and keep doing what youve been doing, the 10th step promises will happen.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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Originally Posted by Bunny211
YUP! Exactly. Scares the bejeezus outta me...that voice...that obsession.
it used to drive me nuts, but i trusted those that went before me that said as long as i do what the bb said it would lessen and i would eventually not have a problem with it.
i think i was about 6 months sober when i made my 1st full 24hrs without having the thought of drinking.
dam that felt good!!!
and the 10th step promises happened.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
theres some fears that are healthy. i think id get concerned if people didnt get scared when that happens.
it used to drive me nuts, but i trusted those that went before me that said as long as i do what the bb said it would lessen and i would eventually not have a problem with it.
i think i was about 6 months sober when i made my 1st full 24hrs without having the thought of drinking.
dam that felt good!!!
and the 10th step promises happened.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
it used to drive me nuts, but i trusted those that went before me that said as long as i do what the bb said it would lessen and i would eventually not have a problem with it.
i think i was about 6 months sober when i made my 1st full 24hrs without having the thought of drinking.
dam that felt good!!!
and the 10th step promises happened.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
I told my friend (a normie) I was jones-ing for a drink and that I thought I wasn't a real alcoholic. He said "Yeah but your life is so much better now that you have stopped drinking...what do you have to gain from having a drink? Nothing." And he's right. I said something like "Yeah but you can go home and have a couple of beers and relax after a hard day of work and I can't." He said "Nah, I never do that. I'd rather have a nice meal and a hot shower and cookies." And it hit me...of course he doesn't run to the booze after a hard day at work...he's not an alcoholic and I AM. I am such an alcoholic. Oh man.
So grateful to be sober!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Down South
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I do believe some people can get control of a drinking problem early and moderate, while others, like me, cannot. I don't know why that is-I just know that I've tried them all and all they do for me is keep the thirst alive. If I'm abstinent, the thirst, for the most part, goes away. If I drink, I want to drink it all!
I admit I puzzle over why that is. But it's a fact. My addiction is like a raging fire and if I'm abstinent, it dwindles to nothing, just a few sparks. But one drink is like kindling and soon, it is roaring again.
I admit I puzzle over why that is. But it's a fact. My addiction is like a raging fire and if I'm abstinent, it dwindles to nothing, just a few sparks. But one drink is like kindling and soon, it is roaring again.
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I have eliminated drinking forever as a possibility for me. My life is full of possibilities and opportunities now, things that I could never have or be with alcohol still in my life.
The emotional energy spent on the internal dialog over moderation, or even the future possibility of moderation, would for me be a waste, needless self-torture.
Accept what is. And then move forward with confidence and a free spirit.
The emotional energy spent on the internal dialog over moderation, or even the future possibility of moderation, would for me be a waste, needless self-torture.
Accept what is. And then move forward with confidence and a free spirit.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
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I think that is part of the process for some of us Bunny. I started to think that way right around a year sober. the answer to that is "only an addict would risk it". Any rational person would want nothing to do with booze again...ever.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
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The term "moderation" isn't in my lexicon.
Or in my family's DNA.
Back when I tried to moderate, I never succeeded and wound up spending a lot of mental effort at a failing pursuit.
Good thread.
No one has slighted Audrey K.
All of us could be Audrey or any one of a million drunks "out there" who suffer tragic outcomes.
God has spared me thus far, and I plan to go back to the well tomorrow a.m. when I wake up (and to also not pick up a drink or a drug tonight).
Or in my family's DNA.
Back when I tried to moderate, I never succeeded and wound up spending a lot of mental effort at a failing pursuit.
Good thread.
No one has slighted Audrey K.
All of us could be Audrey or any one of a million drunks "out there" who suffer tragic outcomes.
God has spared me thus far, and I plan to go back to the well tomorrow a.m. when I wake up (and to also not pick up a drink or a drug tonight).
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 51
For most of my relapses, it was usually a night or two of moderate drinking with no significant withdrawal symptoms the next day that convinced me I wasn't an alcoholic. Resulted in reverting to stumbling down the sidewalk to get more booze and trying to keep my hands from shaking too badly when I payed for it every time.
The thought of never drinking again seems a bit hard to swallow, because I associate it with parties or beer with hot wings and friends. Fun stuff right? But fast forward a day or maybe a week and I will have just thrown myself right back into the fire. Misery, self loathing, missed commitments, withdrawal, and general embarrassment.
The thought of never drinking again seems a bit hard to swallow, because I associate it with parties or beer with hot wings and friends. Fun stuff right? But fast forward a day or maybe a week and I will have just thrown myself right back into the fire. Misery, self loathing, missed commitments, withdrawal, and general embarrassment.
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Location: East Coast USA
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I have read some articles about moderation programs. In my view there are some good arguments made by both sides. I try not to block out or ignore any side to a topic under debate.
Personally I do believe that some people who experience drinking problems can go back to moderate drinking. But many can't. And the more severe the drinking problem the less likely that moderation will work. The problem is that we don't know who falls into what bucket until it's too late. So for those of us who have experienced problems with drinking, trying a moderation program is kind of like Russian roulette. For me I like to sum up the topic of moderate drinking with a movie quote:
"Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"
Personally I do believe that some people who experience drinking problems can go back to moderate drinking. But many can't. And the more severe the drinking problem the less likely that moderation will work. The problem is that we don't know who falls into what bucket until it's too late. So for those of us who have experienced problems with drinking, trying a moderation program is kind of like Russian roulette. For me I like to sum up the topic of moderate drinking with a movie quote:
"Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
I think that Harm Reduction (like Moderation Management) has its place. I think that some excessive drinkers can learn to moderate. And if MM helps you to stop destroying your life and the lives around you who am I to argue that it isn't good enough? But for me the easiest and most effective method I found to address my alcohol issue was to just stop drinking. And I have never yet woken up in the morning regretting that I didn't drink the night before. I have nothing but empathy for those of us that still suffer from addiction. Any door that frees them is fine with me.
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 359
That was me for about a year - I'd want to quit, get some time in and think a couple would be okay and be gone for months. Repeat.
I know I can't moderate. I'll start to think I can when I get a strong craving but scoot right along reminding myself a hangover is hell.
I know I can't moderate. I'll start to think I can when I get a strong craving but scoot right along reminding myself a hangover is hell.
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK
I personally think counting drinks and whatnot, trying to stay within some defined "moderate" level of drinking, is a helluva lot more time and mental energy than quitting entirely, and it sure didn't work for me after I passed the threshold into "heavy" regular drinking. And, normal "light" drinkers probably think the whole concept is strange, because they don't spend that sort of time and mental energy on drinking either.
But perhaps it does work for some people, and if it does, good for them. I look at it like I look at abstinence-based recovery philosophies and programs - whatever works for you is what you should do. The people for whom moderation management can't work (which is probably most of us here) usually try it at some point, and eventually discover that it doesn't work - but when we're locked in addiction, it can seem like a solution, and it certainly seems less scary than abstinence.
But perhaps it does work for some people, and if it does, good for them. I look at it like I look at abstinence-based recovery philosophies and programs - whatever works for you is what you should do.
The people for whom moderation management can't work (which is probably most of us here) usually try it at some point, and eventually discover that it doesn't work - but when we're locked in addiction, it can seem like a solution, and it certainly seems less scary than abstinence.It works the other way also though - it's another side of the obsession coin. Must only have three drinks to not get drunk is not much different than absolutely having to have ten or one won't be drunk enough.
Bunny - I think we have the same friend
I told her I was considering a bottle of wine and she said "so what? You can convince yourself it's okay and be right back where you were?"
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