Are you willing to do "anything" so as to get and stay sober?
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
I was more trying to get Bob to consider there may be more than one way to look at this. Christian can mean anything from being compassionate over judgmental to picketing dead soldiers funerals. From hanging out on this forum with Bob for over 3 years I know about where he falls on that spectrum. If I am wrong Bob, feel free to correct me. I threw it out there and he can do with it whatever he pleases.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Hi S I S .
Yes the thread has wandered , me i was sick of being sick hundreds of times and made promises that I really meant ,I would have passed a lie detector test with flying colors because when I made those promises right there and then ''I was willing to go to any lengths '' then I was off booze for a while until my alcoholic mind told me ''i wasn't that bad and next time would be different ''.
This thread has wandered over to a debate about God because Bob mentioned the gospels and religion at the outset then Bob mentioned Jesus, then Bob more or less stated he believed in a vengeful God in the old testament then said its the same God in the new testament , my view is that God in the new testament is ''love and spiritual '' old testament in my view is God is vengeful and very harsh .
At the end of the day it should be God as you understand Him /Her not as Bob sees God this is an alcoholism thread and AA s in particular are advised to choose your own ''higher power '' God as Bob understands him would be better posted in the Spirituality or Christian forums , that's wisdom to know the difference . Bob wants his two cents ? others naturally want their two cents what comes around goes around , but it should be civil and not vindictive or malicious .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .if a man hears a different drummer let him march to the drum he hears .
Yes the thread has wandered , me i was sick of being sick hundreds of times and made promises that I really meant ,I would have passed a lie detector test with flying colors because when I made those promises right there and then ''I was willing to go to any lengths '' then I was off booze for a while until my alcoholic mind told me ''i wasn't that bad and next time would be different ''.
This thread has wandered over to a debate about God because Bob mentioned the gospels and religion at the outset then Bob mentioned Jesus, then Bob more or less stated he believed in a vengeful God in the old testament then said its the same God in the new testament , my view is that God in the new testament is ''love and spiritual '' old testament in my view is God is vengeful and very harsh .
At the end of the day it should be God as you understand Him /Her not as Bob sees God this is an alcoholism thread and AA s in particular are advised to choose your own ''higher power '' God as Bob understands him would be better posted in the Spirituality or Christian forums , that's wisdom to know the difference . Bob wants his two cents ? others naturally want their two cents what comes around goes around , but it should be civil and not vindictive or malicious .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .if a man hears a different drummer let him march to the drum he hears .
I just try my best to stick to the Bible and believe Reformed Theology to be the correct interpretation.
Many of the forefathers who founded the United States were Reformed. Just as in the beginning of time, people today think they are so much smarter than the ones who walked before them. Nothing new under the sun.
Mountainman
Many of the forefathers who founded the United States were Reformed. Just as in the beginning of time, people today think they are so much smarter than the ones who walked before them. Nothing new under the sun.
Mountainman
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
I think that FOR ME, before any real personal growth could happen, I had to remove alcohol. Without that, no 'recovery' could happen. After I was sober and could think clearly, I was then in a position to examine how I was living and to make changes with a more clear-thinking and objective mind. Now does EVERYONE have to do such things? I don't know. I just think that when I got some distance from my last drink and had the space to view my life, what I saw I didn't like. So I began to change. I'm still changing.
Interesting thing is, to a casual observer, this might seem to fly in the face of "make no sudden changes." But some of the changes I've made have been supportive of my sobriety, IMO. My personal observation is that the opposite of addiction isn't abstinence. It's engagement. Having a life worth living, and dreams worth dreaming.
Perhaps the 'no big changes' is to protect the newly sober from irrationally changing careers, spouse, geography, and the like when they are freshly sober. Working at staying sober was enough for me at the beginning. I certainly wasn't doing my best thinking in early sobriety. I do think there is a lot of collective wisdom in many of the things that AAs say. I particularly think that the booklet Living Sober was useful.
I just try my best to stick to the Bible and believe Reformed Theology to be the correct interpretation.
Many of the forefathers who founded the United States were Reformed. Just as in the beginning of time, people today think they are so much smarter than the ones who walked before them. Nothing new under the sun.
Mountainman
Many of the forefathers who founded the United States were Reformed. Just as in the beginning of time, people today think they are so much smarter than the ones who walked before them. Nothing new under the sun.
Mountainman
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Perhaps this is unique to me: I have very strongly-held beliefs about God but have never felt the urge to challenge or correct anybody else's statements on the subject, no matter how much they differ from mine.
I think this confuses people at times. AAers assume I'm an atheist. Atheists think I'm a brainwashing victim of a religious cult.
Can people agree to disagree on the tangential topic of the Nature of God, which didn't even really rear its head until several posts into the thread? Or am I misinterpreting the key point of Bob's initial post? I still think there's an interesting discussion to be had here about change.
I think this confuses people at times. AAers assume I'm an atheist. Atheists think I'm a brainwashing victim of a religious cult.
Can people agree to disagree on the tangential topic of the Nature of God, which didn't even really rear its head until several posts into the thread? Or am I misinterpreting the key point of Bob's initial post? I still think there's an interesting discussion to be had here about change.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Perhaps the 'no big changes' is to protect the newly sober from irrationally changing careers, spouse, geography, and the like when they are freshly sober. Working at staying sober was enough for me at the beginning. I certainly wasn't doing my best thinking in early sobriety. I do think there is a lot of collective wisdom in many of the things that AAs say. I particularly think that the booklet Living Sober was useful.
I question myself on this very frequently.
Second and final reminder to keep on topic and keep personal disagreements on personal opinions out of public forums. Remember we are a recovery forum, arguments about each other's religious beliefs is against forum policy.
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