Looking for opinions regarding alcohol and intent.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Looking for opinions regarding alcohol and intent.
My husband had a one night stand at a conference and I've been spending a lot of time on fidelity sites.
One linked an article from the Good Men Project for the excuses people give for infidelity, alcohol being number one. The man who wrote the article said he'd been in bars and watched people get into fights, something he'd never done. He doesn't buy the excuse that alcohol changes a person, but rather reveals their true nature.
That freaks me out because if he's right, it means my husband wants to be a cheater. I'm trying to decide whether to stay or leave our relationship. I woke up and had an epiphany. The way it happened he was at a piano bar with about 10 colleagues and they were all dancing and drinking. He and another co-worker started getting a little too close and soon were rubbing up against each other and were groping in front of everybody. Very uncool.
Finally, they went outside and groped even more and made out by some fountain. They ended up walking to the hotel with everyone but this woman did not go to her room with her roommates, she went into the hotel bar with my husband. She returned to her room between 2 and 3 in the morning, and my husband remembers walking her to her room and kissing her goodnight. He claims amnesia of everything else, but our counselor is going to try to get him to come clean. He admits he has been very dishonest and needs help.
My epiphany is that I really don't believe he set out to have this affair because he risked pretty much everything. Because of the nature of his job he could have ended his entire career, he could have contracted a STD, the woman was unstable as her husband had just left her - for all he knew, she could have been some sort of stalker, he could have lost his family, impregnated her and been forced to pay child support, and on and on. I can't believe he set out to do that. Had he been attracted to this woman (and we both agree she is not physically attractive) they could have met discreetly and not embarrassed themselves in front of their colleagues. He lost a lot of professional respect.
So, back to my original question, do you think the man who wrote the article is right or wrong. I asked my husband just now if he thinks he would have done what he did had alcohol not been in the picture, and he said no.
One linked an article from the Good Men Project for the excuses people give for infidelity, alcohol being number one. The man who wrote the article said he'd been in bars and watched people get into fights, something he'd never done. He doesn't buy the excuse that alcohol changes a person, but rather reveals their true nature.
That freaks me out because if he's right, it means my husband wants to be a cheater. I'm trying to decide whether to stay or leave our relationship. I woke up and had an epiphany. The way it happened he was at a piano bar with about 10 colleagues and they were all dancing and drinking. He and another co-worker started getting a little too close and soon were rubbing up against each other and were groping in front of everybody. Very uncool.
Finally, they went outside and groped even more and made out by some fountain. They ended up walking to the hotel with everyone but this woman did not go to her room with her roommates, she went into the hotel bar with my husband. She returned to her room between 2 and 3 in the morning, and my husband remembers walking her to her room and kissing her goodnight. He claims amnesia of everything else, but our counselor is going to try to get him to come clean. He admits he has been very dishonest and needs help.
My epiphany is that I really don't believe he set out to have this affair because he risked pretty much everything. Because of the nature of his job he could have ended his entire career, he could have contracted a STD, the woman was unstable as her husband had just left her - for all he knew, she could have been some sort of stalker, he could have lost his family, impregnated her and been forced to pay child support, and on and on. I can't believe he set out to do that. Had he been attracted to this woman (and we both agree she is not physically attractive) they could have met discreetly and not embarrassed themselves in front of their colleagues. He lost a lot of professional respect.
So, back to my original question, do you think the man who wrote the article is right or wrong. I asked my husband just now if he thinks he would have done what he did had alcohol not been in the picture, and he said no.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Alcohol contributes to people letting down their reserve to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. Whether that means it reveals their true nature or not is irrelevant for me in the case of infidelity. Perhaps some people can surmount that, but I know from experience that I cannot.
Susan, you've been over this again and again. I feel for you, I do.
For your sake, I'd encourage you to take a few months away from your husband to focus on yourself and let him do the same. It seems drastic, I know, but think about it. You've already been at this agony for months.
Just an opinion from one who wishes to help you avoid the suffering I put myself through for years. Twice.
Susan, you've been over this again and again. I feel for you, I do.
For your sake, I'd encourage you to take a few months away from your husband to focus on yourself and let him do the same. It seems drastic, I know, but think about it. You've already been at this agony for months.
Just an opinion from one who wishes to help you avoid the suffering I put myself through for years. Twice.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
There is no "correct" answer to your question I don't think. The article you read was simply someone's opinion.
My opinion on this subject is that I am responsble for drinking the alcohol I drank...it was a conscious choice every time I did it. I also did it knowing that I may do things drunk that I'd never do sober. Therefore I feel that anything I did drunk was also my responsibility. Sure the alcohol altered my thinking...but I willfully chose to drink....so I must live with the consequences.
I cannot give advice about staying or leaving your relationship. Only you can decide if his infidelity is forgiveble or not. I would focus on his actions now and his dedication to sobriety first and foremost.
My opinion on this subject is that I am responsble for drinking the alcohol I drank...it was a conscious choice every time I did it. I also did it knowing that I may do things drunk that I'd never do sober. Therefore I feel that anything I did drunk was also my responsibility. Sure the alcohol altered my thinking...but I willfully chose to drink....so I must live with the consequences.
I cannot give advice about staying or leaving your relationship. Only you can decide if his infidelity is forgiveble or not. I would focus on his actions now and his dedication to sobriety first and foremost.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by SusanE 
The man who wrote the article said he'd been in bars and watched people get into fights, something he'd never done. He doesn't buy the excuse that alcohol changes a person, but rather reveals their true nature.
That said, how this pertains to your husband, I'm not sure.
You'll have to come to your own decisions on how you feel about the situation and what you'll do.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Thanks for your answers. My husband is a fun drinker, but changes when he's really drunk and can turn mean. Mainly teasing and mind games. I call it poking the bear. I want to be married to a man who has a strong moral compass and boundaries, and is honest. The therapist has begged me to wait three months before I make any major life decisions.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place.
Billy Crystal
Women for the most part need to have an emotional attachment .
Could be many reasons for encounter. Pretty hard to pin point it down to one thing. The alcohol could have played a part.
You're going to have to ask yourself, can you ever trust your husband again over this?
Deception Destroys Trust in Marriage, Dr. David, Christian Marriage Help and Advice
Billy Crystal
Women for the most part need to have an emotional attachment .
Could be many reasons for encounter. Pretty hard to pin point it down to one thing. The alcohol could have played a part.
You're going to have to ask yourself, can you ever trust your husband again over this?
Deception Destroys Trust in Marriage, Dr. David, Christian Marriage Help and Advice
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
People who strive to have strong moral compasses, reasonable boundaries and be honest sometimes fail to live up to their own standards. It doesn't necessarily constitute a lack of such qualities or lacking the desire to attain them, but can be a failure of achieving virtue( identifying values + acting morally ie in accordance with gaining and keeping those values = virtue).
It sounds like consuming alcohol impedes your husband's ability to maintain virtue. A commitment to sobriety would probably help him in that regard , 'fun drinking' tends to become un-fun in the 'long run' and obviously in the short game on occasion.
It sounds like consuming alcohol impedes your husband's ability to maintain virtue. A commitment to sobriety would probably help him in that regard , 'fun drinking' tends to become un-fun in the 'long run' and obviously in the short game on occasion.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
What an excellent article, CaptainZing. I love the straight forward way this man spells it out. It sounds like we're on the right path. I'm trying to detach as much as possible while this therapist and he do their work.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
I totally agree with Scott and have said the same thing. My husband was not drunk but only drinking when he started up with this woman. He could have stopped himself at many points that night, but he chose to keep drinking and carrying on. That's why I told him he needs to stop saying he made a drunken mistake. Besides, that's a terrible excuse. Try telling it to the judge when you're charged with a DUI.
A drunken mistake is putting the ice cream in the fridge instead of the freezer. He made a series of choices, including to continue to consume alcohol. The therapist is a self-identified alcoholic and we were both honest with her about our drinking and she thinks he's a full-blown alcoholic, but I'm not, though I sometimes abuse alcohol.
Just the same, my husband has cut way back on his drinking and didn't drink at all a couple of days last week. I've cut way back and feel better and calmer. I've decided to quit for the time being. Alcohol soothes me for a short while, then seems to make me even angrier - even in the middle of the night. I quit all the time when I'm dieting. I'm ready to try to recover from this blow and alcohol is not serving me well.
A drunken mistake is putting the ice cream in the fridge instead of the freezer. He made a series of choices, including to continue to consume alcohol. The therapist is a self-identified alcoholic and we were both honest with her about our drinking and she thinks he's a full-blown alcoholic, but I'm not, though I sometimes abuse alcohol.
Just the same, my husband has cut way back on his drinking and didn't drink at all a couple of days last week. I've cut way back and feel better and calmer. I've decided to quit for the time being. Alcohol soothes me for a short while, then seems to make me even angrier - even in the middle of the night. I quit all the time when I'm dieting. I'm ready to try to recover from this blow and alcohol is not serving me well.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 2,849
Best to handle this situation with a clear sober head. Or all it's going to do is mask and suppress those emotions you need to deal with and make you feel worse in the long run.
I also agree with Scott. Though looking back on the path of devastation I left behind makes me feel dismal and full of shame, I realize if I don't own up to it I'm not allowing myself to open up to possibility of healing and having the responsibility and strength to stay on the path of sobriety.
Good for you for deciding to quit. Remember you are only responsible for you and your own actions, you can't change your husband. Keep working on yourself in the mean time. *hugs* I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
I also agree with Scott. Though looking back on the path of devastation I left behind makes me feel dismal and full of shame, I realize if I don't own up to it I'm not allowing myself to open up to possibility of healing and having the responsibility and strength to stay on the path of sobriety.
Good for you for deciding to quit. Remember you are only responsible for you and your own actions, you can't change your husband. Keep working on yourself in the mean time. *hugs* I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Alcohol frees us to do things we would normally avoid due to fear of consequences. It doesn't make us do things we don't want to do.
I think you're falling into the trap of overthinking this because you're hoping that slicing and dicing it over and over in your mind will somehow get you to a different conclusion. From what I've read of you, your trust is broken. That's the reality for now.
I agree that it's a good idea to get a LOT of distance from this situation for a while. A few months away or whatever so that your heart is not so broken, and you feel stable and proud of yourself again. Then, from that position of strength, you can consider whether or not you want to re-invest in the marriage.
When you're strong and feeling good, then you'll know what to do. Right now, confused, obsessed, and hurt, you can't make the best decision for yourself.
I think you're falling into the trap of overthinking this because you're hoping that slicing and dicing it over and over in your mind will somehow get you to a different conclusion. From what I've read of you, your trust is broken. That's the reality for now.
I agree that it's a good idea to get a LOT of distance from this situation for a while. A few months away or whatever so that your heart is not so broken, and you feel stable and proud of yourself again. Then, from that position of strength, you can consider whether or not you want to re-invest in the marriage.
When you're strong and feeling good, then you'll know what to do. Right now, confused, obsessed, and hurt, you can't make the best decision for yourself.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Thanks, SiS. I agree with every word you said. I'm not ready to leave but have moved into a different bedroom. Some of my decisions involve money and practicality. Some involve emotions.
I just told my IRL friend that I know I'm in no condition to make these decisions right now. I'm better, but not well. I'm no longer a madwoman but still overthink everything. Imagine yourself lost in the woods. A friendly wolf gives you map after map, and everyone leaves you lost.
Imagine what you would do. Try to figure out the right path, IMO. I'm trying to do my best. As far as this site goes, I know alcohol does absolutely zero to clear things up and help me find my way.
As to your original point, I have drunk quite a bit and have not yet gone to bed with someone or driven drunk. Most of my complaints, over the years, have more to do with dosage or lack of boundaries. I really believe my husband is trying. I have a forgiving nature but can't forgive right now. I get one day at a time.
James of England, I read your story and feel so badly about your accident. I'm glad you survived and hope you will find a way to be well.
I just told my IRL friend that I know I'm in no condition to make these decisions right now. I'm better, but not well. I'm no longer a madwoman but still overthink everything. Imagine yourself lost in the woods. A friendly wolf gives you map after map, and everyone leaves you lost.
Imagine what you would do. Try to figure out the right path, IMO. I'm trying to do my best. As far as this site goes, I know alcohol does absolutely zero to clear things up and help me find my way.
As to your original point, I have drunk quite a bit and have not yet gone to bed with someone or driven drunk. Most of my complaints, over the years, have more to do with dosage or lack of boundaries. I really believe my husband is trying. I have a forgiving nature but can't forgive right now. I get one day at a time.
James of England, I read your story and feel so badly about your accident. I'm glad you survived and hope you will find a way to be well.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Susan, I sense what a quality person you are. You deserve a marriage where you don't have those niggling fears in your mind. Perhaps it will be THIS marriage once it's healed...or perhaps something different is in your future.
Feeling as low as you do is completely understandable. When we take someone into our heart, we meld with them in a way that their betrayals feel like a direct reflection on us. It would be nuts to think you could feel anything but self-doubt and confusion right now.
How is your own drinking (sorry if you've already posted that)? If you're drinking, stopping will do wonders for your self-esteem. You'd be saying No to the substance that enabled the betrayal and which numbs your righteous outrage. Your hair/skin/eyes would sparkle right up and your sleep would be sound. Sobriety is like a spa treatment!
I know the wound is fresh, but try to open your mind and heart to ALL the different ways this might come to a happy ending. Reconciliation is one, but it's not the only one. And if this marriage is not to be saved, don't think for a minute that your future is one of loneliness. Get some space and then allow yourself to enjoy it. I don't think you can clear your head while still under the same roof. Too many memories, too much contact.
This will improve. It really will.
Feeling as low as you do is completely understandable. When we take someone into our heart, we meld with them in a way that their betrayals feel like a direct reflection on us. It would be nuts to think you could feel anything but self-doubt and confusion right now.
How is your own drinking (sorry if you've already posted that)? If you're drinking, stopping will do wonders for your self-esteem. You'd be saying No to the substance that enabled the betrayal and which numbs your righteous outrage. Your hair/skin/eyes would sparkle right up and your sleep would be sound. Sobriety is like a spa treatment!
I know the wound is fresh, but try to open your mind and heart to ALL the different ways this might come to a happy ending. Reconciliation is one, but it's not the only one. And if this marriage is not to be saved, don't think for a minute that your future is one of loneliness. Get some space and then allow yourself to enjoy it. I don't think you can clear your head while still under the same roof. Too many memories, too much contact.
This will improve. It really will.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Thanks, SiS, for everything. My drinking is back under control. I finished the last of a bottle of wine last night and that's it for a long time. I was actually dieting and not drinking about the time I found this out.
We did have wine the night he let his secret slip, but only because we'd been at a Christmas party and were sitting at home talking about the conversations we'd had. He seemed intoxicated but I wasn't. However, I've had alcohol in different doses every single day since then.
The therapist does specialize in addictions and does not want my husband to quit right away because of the amount he consumes. I've cut so far back that I don't think I'll suffer any unpleasant effects. I do have prescribed anti-anxiety medication if I need it, and I have an appointment with my Nurse Practitioner this Wednesday.
Also, I've befriended a Facebook friend and we're meeting on Friday for a walk in the park. She's very into fitness and I don't think she's a drinker. I got information from the library regarding events and book club. One meets at the library, the other at a brew house. ( Think I'll skip that one.)
I ran into my husband this morning while I was checking to make sure I didn't leave any wine sitting around. I told him I was looking for wine to pour down the sink and that I'm serious about this. He meets with the therapist on Thursday.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll be joining you at the spa.
We did have wine the night he let his secret slip, but only because we'd been at a Christmas party and were sitting at home talking about the conversations we'd had. He seemed intoxicated but I wasn't. However, I've had alcohol in different doses every single day since then.
The therapist does specialize in addictions and does not want my husband to quit right away because of the amount he consumes. I've cut so far back that I don't think I'll suffer any unpleasant effects. I do have prescribed anti-anxiety medication if I need it, and I have an appointment with my Nurse Practitioner this Wednesday.
Also, I've befriended a Facebook friend and we're meeting on Friday for a walk in the park. She's very into fitness and I don't think she's a drinker. I got information from the library regarding events and book club. One meets at the library, the other at a brew house. ( Think I'll skip that one.)
I ran into my husband this morning while I was checking to make sure I didn't leave any wine sitting around. I told him I was looking for wine to pour down the sink and that I'm serious about this. He meets with the therapist on Thursday.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll be joining you at the spa.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
