Tapering Advice?
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
Tapering Advice?
Can anyone give me any good advice? Are there any good threads here you know of?
As you'll see below (if you choose to read the short book I just wrote here), I've tapered multiple time in the past, including recently and without anything more than mild discomfort. In addition, I can't currently go to the doctor and there are waits for local rehabs, even the outpatient ones, I asked around. So please, respectfully, don't insist that one cannot taper. I've read too many forums in the past to know that that is coming, and it won't be especially helpful to me. I know it's not for everyone, but it works for me and it's my only good option right now.
Let me give you my situation: I've been out of work for a month and overdoing it on the spirits. My typical pattern was always that I drank 15-20 drinks-worth of liquor every night before bed and over the course of a few hours while I watched shows or played a game, etc. I know that's quite a bit, but I've been drinking more days than not for about ten years now and I'm a large man (especially because of the drinking, which usually comes once I've got most of them in me). Since I've been out of work, however, I've been drinking more like 10-15 late at night, and another 10 or so in the late morning after being up for a while, then a nap, dry evening, rinse and repeat. I'd begun to lessen these amounts slightly, anticipating errands this coming week. Yesterday I tried to only do about afternoon and not the evening. I started getting hand shakes and anxiety in the late evening but figured they'd be gone by the next day. Instead it progressed into strong shakes, near as strong as I've had, and by the time the twelve-hour mark hit I was really uncomfortable and worried. I decided take enough to calm the shakes, which ended up being the last 6 drinks I had in the house, and start a more thorough taper today. I had about 2 drinks and waited a while and felt no relief, so did another 2 and felt slightly better, so waited and took the last 2, and after a while longer I was no longer shaking at all. This worked out, though no sleep.
A little over a month ago I had quit for several days. At the time I was mostly only drinking at night, but did get hand shakes some times, especially when anxious, and would have a small amount during the day. At this point, I was able to taper from a normal night of like 15 drinks, about 6 drinks, and was fine for the next five days away for the holiday outside of some sweats the first night . . . and I sweat a lot even when I'm sober. I'd even taken a pint of brandy just in case, but outside of difficulty sleeping, I had no need for it and it never got touched. Right when we returned, I injured my knee and was in horrible pain and the sleep and pain relief was too much of a temptation, so I grabbed the bottle again. Clearly, between amount and it being spread across the day, my body is not ready to let me off the hook so easy this time.
I started getting the shakes again this morning and was able to ride it out a while until I was having a really hard time using the computer even . . . not as bad as last night, but slowly getting worse, and that was nearly 12 hours from last drink, so about right. I'm just finishing another 6, tried 4 but still shaky, so I'm hoping that after a day or two of keeping it minimal and spread out, I can switch to only nights and then stop entirely in another day or two. In between rounds I've been drinking my water and I picked up multivitamins with the full set of B-vitamins (good idea anyway since I've been sticking almost entirely vegetarian lately). I would follow the HAMS method and do what a lot of people do and do a beer an hour and cut back from there, but that's not reasonable for my life and, like I've said, it takes more than a single drink to keep the withdrawal back at this point.
Wish me luck.
As you'll see below (if you choose to read the short book I just wrote here), I've tapered multiple time in the past, including recently and without anything more than mild discomfort. In addition, I can't currently go to the doctor and there are waits for local rehabs, even the outpatient ones, I asked around. So please, respectfully, don't insist that one cannot taper. I've read too many forums in the past to know that that is coming, and it won't be especially helpful to me. I know it's not for everyone, but it works for me and it's my only good option right now.
Let me give you my situation: I've been out of work for a month and overdoing it on the spirits. My typical pattern was always that I drank 15-20 drinks-worth of liquor every night before bed and over the course of a few hours while I watched shows or played a game, etc. I know that's quite a bit, but I've been drinking more days than not for about ten years now and I'm a large man (especially because of the drinking, which usually comes once I've got most of them in me). Since I've been out of work, however, I've been drinking more like 10-15 late at night, and another 10 or so in the late morning after being up for a while, then a nap, dry evening, rinse and repeat. I'd begun to lessen these amounts slightly, anticipating errands this coming week. Yesterday I tried to only do about afternoon and not the evening. I started getting hand shakes and anxiety in the late evening but figured they'd be gone by the next day. Instead it progressed into strong shakes, near as strong as I've had, and by the time the twelve-hour mark hit I was really uncomfortable and worried. I decided take enough to calm the shakes, which ended up being the last 6 drinks I had in the house, and start a more thorough taper today. I had about 2 drinks and waited a while and felt no relief, so did another 2 and felt slightly better, so waited and took the last 2, and after a while longer I was no longer shaking at all. This worked out, though no sleep.
A little over a month ago I had quit for several days. At the time I was mostly only drinking at night, but did get hand shakes some times, especially when anxious, and would have a small amount during the day. At this point, I was able to taper from a normal night of like 15 drinks, about 6 drinks, and was fine for the next five days away for the holiday outside of some sweats the first night . . . and I sweat a lot even when I'm sober. I'd even taken a pint of brandy just in case, but outside of difficulty sleeping, I had no need for it and it never got touched. Right when we returned, I injured my knee and was in horrible pain and the sleep and pain relief was too much of a temptation, so I grabbed the bottle again. Clearly, between amount and it being spread across the day, my body is not ready to let me off the hook so easy this time.
I started getting the shakes again this morning and was able to ride it out a while until I was having a really hard time using the computer even . . . not as bad as last night, but slowly getting worse, and that was nearly 12 hours from last drink, so about right. I'm just finishing another 6, tried 4 but still shaky, so I'm hoping that after a day or two of keeping it minimal and spread out, I can switch to only nights and then stop entirely in another day or two. In between rounds I've been drinking my water and I picked up multivitamins with the full set of B-vitamins (good idea anyway since I've been sticking almost entirely vegetarian lately). I would follow the HAMS method and do what a lot of people do and do a beer an hour and cut back from there, but that's not reasonable for my life and, like I've said, it takes more than a single drink to keep the withdrawal back at this point.
Wish me luck.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
I suffered a seizure when I tried to taper too aggressively. If you keep having these symptoms, go to an emergency room and worry about how to pay for it later.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 113
Hi UhZoomZip,
I'm not saying anything against tapering. I just want to say that I think you have to do it safely. I'm concerned by what you're writing, it sounds like withdrawal could be dangerous for you.
You say you can't go to the doctor. I'm not sure of the reason for that. You've asked for advice and, to be honest, I think the best advice is to get some medical help with this.
I'm afraid I don't know how things work where you are. I don't know if a doctor will help you outside a rehab programme - is that a possibility? Maybe others could advise you on some practical things like that, if you posted to ask that kind of question.
I would also say that a secondary consideration is that tapering only works if you stay stopped. Not if you keep starting again then tapering again. So I think it would be good to work on ways to stay sober once you stop. But that really is secondary to your immediate situation.
Please stay safe.
I'm not saying anything against tapering. I just want to say that I think you have to do it safely. I'm concerned by what you're writing, it sounds like withdrawal could be dangerous for you.
You say you can't go to the doctor. I'm not sure of the reason for that. You've asked for advice and, to be honest, I think the best advice is to get some medical help with this.
I'm afraid I don't know how things work where you are. I don't know if a doctor will help you outside a rehab programme - is that a possibility? Maybe others could advise you on some practical things like that, if you posted to ask that kind of question.
I would also say that a secondary consideration is that tapering only works if you stay stopped. Not if you keep starting again then tapering again. So I think it would be good to work on ways to stay sober once you stop. But that really is secondary to your immediate situation.
Please stay safe.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Zeroine touches on a really good point in the last paragraph: starting/stopping.
By repeating your tapering and withdrawal process, you're inviting something called "kindling." You can Google this. Basically, when you quit an addictive substance and then resume use, then quit again and resume use, then quit again... Each time you quit your withdrawals become more severe and more dangerous.
So, that's another piece of advice to consider about tapering: Make sure this is the last time!
By repeating your tapering and withdrawal process, you're inviting something called "kindling." You can Google this. Basically, when you quit an addictive substance and then resume use, then quit again and resume use, then quit again... Each time you quit your withdrawals become more severe and more dangerous.
So, that's another piece of advice to consider about tapering: Make sure this is the last time!
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
I'd suggest against it actually. Sounds to me like you've reached that level of physical dependance that a supervised detox may be the only safe way to do this. Id also recommend seeing a doctor or detox center and sharing the your drinking history. Bottom line, be safe.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: baltimore, maryland
Posts: 463
I think you have "kindled" yourself into a real serious situation. Just because you had mild symptoms in the past, does not mean you will be ok this time and next time!! You should think about getting some medical help before you get too sick. Kindling is real...I have proven it!!
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
I think the point of tapering is to 'soften the blow' of finally quitting . But no matter what, you're going to come to the point of quitting entirely, and then withdrawal will kick in. And you don't know how severe it will be. I'd strongly urge medical help to be safe during w/d.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
You can withdraw while tapering - I have personal experience.
The safest option is always to see a Dr.
If you need more than one drink to feel safe, I very strongly urge you to reconsider your reluctance not to see one.
We can't give you tapering advice here because it would be against our medical advice rule.
D
The safest option is always to see a Dr.
If you need more than one drink to feel safe, I very strongly urge you to reconsider your reluctance not to see one.
We can't give you tapering advice here because it would be against our medical advice rule.
D
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: baltimore, maryland
Posts: 463
Kindling happens whenever an individual exhibits symptoms of withdraw ie. anxiety, hand shakes, insomnia etc...which the OP has stated he was suffering from. Just because the symptoms appear during "tapering" does not mean they are not going through withdrawal. Withdrawal occurs in tapering as well as cold turkey. The more times you go through the process the worse the symptoms become.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
Hmmm, my impression was that you got less and less of a withdrawal until there wasn't one. Like I said previously, I recently went from like 18 to 12 to 8 with almost new withdrawal effects at all. If I'm unable to lessen amounts without experiencing less withdrawal effects, I will have to get help, I know, but with no insurance and a new job starting, I can't afford to pay or lose the job. Plus, if I was told that I needed to be admitted inpatient, my secret would be out to a lot of people, and the idea makes me feel terrified.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
I noticed that, keeping track of amounts and durations between symptoms reappear, and being aware of when symptoms started again, I was able to stop the symptoms with only a couple of drinks. Perhaps more regular drinks, measured, is possible for me. Then I can follow something closer to the HAMS method and avoid starting withdrawals at all. I'm finding more things to say that this can work, and that it's actually the primary way withdrawal is treated in the UK, rather than with meds. Not that it makes meds unsafe or anything. I have the discipline, I know I can do it, but all of your posts make me more afraid it won't.
I don't know, I'm scared. If this doesn't start working, I will have to suck it up and stop being a coward and find a way to ask for meds. I need to make a change, but I'm pretty sure that if I had to go into the hospital or inpatient, that I'd lose people and possibly a job. That's better than losing my life, but would leave me with so little to live for that I have a hard time not going downward spiral.
I don't know, I'm scared. If this doesn't start working, I will have to suck it up and stop being a coward and find a way to ask for meds. I need to make a change, but I'm pretty sure that if I had to go into the hospital or inpatient, that I'd lose people and possibly a job. That's better than losing my life, but would leave me with so little to live for that I have a hard time not going downward spiral.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
To restate what's already been said and what is obvious, you're in a very tight spot. Ruling out particular suggestions and types of treatment only makes things more difficult. Our bodies aren't built to continually tolerate episodes of tapering and withdrawal, to say nothing of the frequency and amounts of alcohol you drink. We batter ourselves physically and emotionally each time we experience withdrawal symptoms, and then resume drinking. There's no way around it.
Biology overwhelms willpower, and few people are successful at getting sober on their own for the long run. I too would be (and have been) terrified were I in your situation. What's most important is what you do next.
I don't know that anyone would argue against getting yourself to the emergency room when you're experiencing symptoms.
Biology overwhelms willpower, and few people are successful at getting sober on their own for the long run. I too would be (and have been) terrified were I in your situation. What's most important is what you do next.
I don't know that anyone would argue against getting yourself to the emergency room when you're experiencing symptoms.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
Well, since this morning getting to the end of the day today, I have drank less and experienced less discomfort at the very least. Having a few more and some diphenhydramine in a short while, let's see if I can last through to morning without symptoms and without needing to have several more to do that.
Thanks again for all the concern. Still happy to hear success stories and advice from anyone who's been in similar shape and tapered, and I've read a bunch while researching. I'd be glad to prove you wrong, but I know you're probably right and that stubbornness is so much of so many of our problems.
Thanks again for all the concern. Still happy to hear success stories and advice from anyone who's been in similar shape and tapered, and I've read a bunch while researching. I'd be glad to prove you wrong, but I know you're probably right and that stubbornness is so much of so many of our problems.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
that you feel you "need" six drinks to feel comfortable indicates this problem is bigger than you may be capable of dealing with, at home on your own. couple things to consider....there IS going to be SOME discomfort.....no one drinks at the levels you have and avoids ALL w/d symptoms unless in a facility that specializes in detox modalities such as SoberinSyracuse went thru. drinking until you feel nothing is not the point, IF your plan is to fully stop and then STAY stopped.
you state you HAVE tapered, but return to drinking in short order. so you have not been SUCCESSFUL at tapering - only in stopping for a bit and then resuming - anymore than me eating a salad a day serves as a weight loss program.
i DO hope you get thru this, once and for all. but please do not prevent yourself for getting medical help if that is what you need.
you state you HAVE tapered, but return to drinking in short order. so you have not been SUCCESSFUL at tapering - only in stopping for a bit and then resuming - anymore than me eating a salad a day serves as a weight loss program.
i DO hope you get thru this, once and for all. but please do not prevent yourself for getting medical help if that is what you need.
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