Is there such a thing as a former alcoholic??
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
I guess it depends on what you think the definition of recovered is.
Recovered - definition of recovered by The Free Dictionary
Upon completing the steps and continuing to apply the maintenance and growth steps (10-12) in my life, my alcohol problem has been removed. In my case I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body and have been restored to normal.
But here's the catch:
Like I said, it depends on what you perceive the definition of recovered to be. From all of the definitions I have looked at I have not seen any that define recovered as being a permanent state, only that something has been restored to it's normal or former state.
But as the saying goes--I can recover from a gunshot wound but it doesn't make me bulletproof. I can and have recovered from (the symptoms of) alcoholism but I am not cured. And my recovered state is contingent on taking my medicine every day, which for me is living by the principles of the 12 steps.
2.
a. To have (the use, possession, or control of something) restored: recovered the use of his fingers.
b. To regain the use of (a faculty) or be restored to (a normal or usual condition): recovered his wits after hearing the news; recovered his health after treatment.
c. To cause to be restored to a normal or usual condition: After two weeks on the medicine, he was fully recovered.
v.intr.
1. To regain a normal or usual condition, as of health: a patient who recovered from the flu; businesses that recovered quickly from the recession.
a. To have (the use, possession, or control of something) restored: recovered the use of his fingers.
b. To regain the use of (a faculty) or be restored to (a normal or usual condition): recovered his wits after hearing the news; recovered his health after treatment.
c. To cause to be restored to a normal or usual condition: After two weeks on the medicine, he was fully recovered.
v.intr.
1. To regain a normal or usual condition, as of health: a patient who recovered from the flu; businesses that recovered quickly from the recession.
Upon completing the steps and continuing to apply the maintenance and growth steps (10-12) in my life, my alcohol problem has been removed. In my case I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body and have been restored to normal.
But here's the catch:
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. (Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition p. 85, underlining mine)
But as the saying goes--I can recover from a gunshot wound but it doesn't make me bulletproof. I can and have recovered from (the symptoms of) alcoholism but I am not cured. And my recovered state is contingent on taking my medicine every day, which for me is living by the principles of the 12 steps.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
If someone wants to label themselves as such and feel they can drink reasonable so be it. Several years back a member with 20 years or so starting drinking again. I found out when we was talking to co-workers about the California wines he was enjoying. We no longer work together so I don`t how he`s doing today but I said nothing at the time. If he wants to drink and he`s fine with it then good luck.
He didn`t label himself an ex-alcoholic but said something to the affect he didn`t believe in labels. That labels were a kind of an ego-trip. Not really sure what he was talking and didn`t press the subject.
He didn`t label himself an ex-alcoholic but said something to the affect he didn`t believe in labels. That labels were a kind of an ego-trip. Not really sure what he was talking and didn`t press the subject.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Ken, I label myself fully recovered from my alcoholism because I am no longer an alcoholic. To me that means I am no longer dependent on alcohol - I don't crave it, my body doesn't cry for it, and my brain and its systems don't want it anymore. I can tell this because I know I will never drink again. Ever. No matter what.
To be perfectly clear, there is no alcohol in my future. I guess I can't wrap my head around any recovery from any condition that assumes voluntary consumption of the offending substance. Who ever talks about an ex heroin addict who only mainlines junk on major holidays? Or a cured coke fiend who only gets his nose dirty on vacation? Surely these folks are cured if they never go near their DOC again. I feel that a recovery from alcohol is the same. Believing that being cured of alcohol addiction means that we can still drink in moderation or however you may wish to describe it, is nothing more than AV writ large.
To pull on that gunshot wound analogy, I would question its suitability here. I would suggest that I am recovered from the wound, and I will stay recovered from that injury. I can't strangely relapse with a new injury from that old gunshot, and as long as I don't grab my sidearm, remover the trigger lock, load the chamber, point it and pull the trigger, I will remain whole. We don't get drunk because some bad dude popped a cap, we get drunk because we decided to do it to ourselves.
I think that rejecting the idea of a cure or a state of being recovered is appropriate if the idea of an unconditional sobriety can't be accepted.
To be perfectly clear, there is no alcohol in my future. I guess I can't wrap my head around any recovery from any condition that assumes voluntary consumption of the offending substance. Who ever talks about an ex heroin addict who only mainlines junk on major holidays? Or a cured coke fiend who only gets his nose dirty on vacation? Surely these folks are cured if they never go near their DOC again. I feel that a recovery from alcohol is the same. Believing that being cured of alcohol addiction means that we can still drink in moderation or however you may wish to describe it, is nothing more than AV writ large.
To pull on that gunshot wound analogy, I would question its suitability here. I would suggest that I am recovered from the wound, and I will stay recovered from that injury. I can't strangely relapse with a new injury from that old gunshot, and as long as I don't grab my sidearm, remover the trigger lock, load the chamber, point it and pull the trigger, I will remain whole. We don't get drunk because some bad dude popped a cap, we get drunk because we decided to do it to ourselves.
I think that rejecting the idea of a cure or a state of being recovered is appropriate if the idea of an unconditional sobriety can't be accepted.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
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^^^ This...
I don't 'fight' the urge to steal a Pal's Wallet left on the Coffee Table while he's out of the Room. There's nothing there to 'fight'. I don't act on lusting after some Woman other than my Wife. I don't circle around that contingency; having to engage special measures other than to effortlessly not act on that urge. Yet another urge I don't have, actually. As with Drinking again, I know that acting on such urges - which have diminished over time - would not have a positive outcome. After Ethanol is removed for some time, the Mind clears up. Act on what then becomes clear. I don't 'fight' the urge to kick my Dog when he acts up. That just ain't on the Behavioral Menu List of options. I don't employ 'Willpower' to avoid kicking my Dog.
>2 Years in, Drinking again is squarely on the same List as these Scenarios above. Scenarios I neither 'fight' nor have to take exceptional precautions against engaging in. If a Person doesn't engage in these Behaviors I list above, this illustrates that the ongoing power of not engaging in egregious Behaviors. This is, indeed, possible. I don't expend wasted time worrying about 'what ifs' should I pick up again any more than I worry about the Legal consequences of Adultery.
The Pickle -> Cucumber Analogy is truly irrelevant. I'm not 'forever' something I used to be. Either you believe fundamental change is possible, or you don't. Kind of a bummer, IMO, if you believe permanent, irreversible change is not possible. I used to have Asthma. Now, I don't. The Pickle Analogy conveys hopelessness, and I find it unhelpful to my permanent Sobriety to buy into such Self-Defeating Attitudes. I can't secretly lust after that which I no longer want. Your Wallet; your Wife; your Dog; and your Drink set down on the Counter are all safe around me.
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^^^ This...
I don't 'fight' the urge to steal a Pal's Wallet left on the Coffee Table while he's out of the Room. There's nothing there to 'fight'. I don't act on lusting after some Woman other than my Wife. I don't circle around that contingency; having to engage special measures other than to effortlessly not act on that urge. Yet another urge I don't have, actually. As with Drinking again, I know that acting on such urges - which have diminished over time - would not have a positive outcome. After Ethanol is removed for some time, the Mind clears up. Act on what then becomes clear. I don't 'fight' the urge to kick my Dog when he acts up. That just ain't on the Behavioral Menu List of options. I don't employ 'Willpower' to avoid kicking my Dog.
>2 Years in, Drinking again is squarely on the same List as these Scenarios above. Scenarios I neither 'fight' nor have to take exceptional precautions against engaging in. If a Person doesn't engage in these Behaviors I list above, this illustrates that the ongoing power of not engaging in egregious Behaviors. This is, indeed, possible. I don't expend wasted time worrying about 'what ifs' should I pick up again any more than I worry about the Legal consequences of Adultery.
The Pickle -> Cucumber Analogy is truly irrelevant. I'm not 'forever' something I used to be. Either you believe fundamental change is possible, or you don't. Kind of a bummer, IMO, if you believe permanent, irreversible change is not possible. I used to have Asthma. Now, I don't. The Pickle Analogy conveys hopelessness, and I find it unhelpful to my permanent Sobriety to buy into such Self-Defeating Attitudes. I can't secretly lust after that which I no longer want. Your Wallet; your Wife; your Dog; and your Drink set down on the Counter are all safe around me.
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Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
When speaking to others, particularly those who are early in their recovery, it can be quite important to define words like 'recovered' and 'alcoholic' quite precisely. The ability of an individual to control their drinking (after having 1 or 2 drinks) is one of the hallmarks of an alcohol problem. This and the fact that the loss of control never returns, regardless of the length of abstinence from alcohol, is essential for that new person to understand.
Personally I don't care what words a person uses, as long as they don't leave an impression which might end up harming someone. The way we use words has consequences.
BTW, the first edition of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" used the term "ex-alcoholic" . Wisely, that term was changed in the second edition to "ex problem drinker", precisely to avoid this confusion.
Personally I don't care what words a person uses, as long as they don't leave an impression which might end up harming someone. The way we use words has consequences.
BTW, the first edition of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" used the term "ex-alcoholic" . Wisely, that term was changed in the second edition to "ex problem drinker", precisely to avoid this confusion.
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,416
I think there are good reasons the Big Book uses the word "recovered" 20 times and "recovering" only twice, but I can only speak for myself here. Being only 9 months sober, I still consider myself recovering. Not because I feel at risk to take a drink, but because I recognize remaining character issues that contribute to alcoholic thinking and need to be addressed and resolved.
When I think of one day considering myself "recovered," even then - especially then - I will know, as an integral part of my recovery, I cannot safely consume alcohol again. I think too many confuse the word "recovered" with "cured." For myself, I take it to mean the steps I'm taking to not just stay sober, but live a sober life, become so entrenched I can no longer even consider taking another drink. I would no longer avoid a drink just because I know what will happen, but because I genuinely don't want one.
When I think of one day considering myself "recovered," even then - especially then - I will know, as an integral part of my recovery, I cannot safely consume alcohol again. I think too many confuse the word "recovered" with "cured." For myself, I take it to mean the steps I'm taking to not just stay sober, but live a sober life, become so entrenched I can no longer even consider taking another drink. I would no longer avoid a drink just because I know what will happen, but because I genuinely don't want one.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
I wanted to thank you for this string, which has been helpful to me.
I am not going to shout it out, but for me I think the best way to look at is that I am addicted to alcohol, as I am addicted to cigarettes even though I have not smoked in more than 30 years.
Once I accepted that I was addicted, it was easier to stop. As someone said, one doesn't have just one syringe of heroin, and I certainly would never test the waters with a cigarette -- isn't alcohol just the same.
So why all the shame?? Maybe cause the perception is that most people are not addicted to alcohol, so if we are it makes us weak, but I don't think that it it.
I think the shame comes from the AV -- just like a bad date, sleep with me, oh, you slept with me, you must be a *****, instead it says, drink me, oh you drank me, you are a loser. Not sure why that is, but I know that is how it was, for me anyway.
I am not going to shout it out, but for me I think the best way to look at is that I am addicted to alcohol, as I am addicted to cigarettes even though I have not smoked in more than 30 years.
Once I accepted that I was addicted, it was easier to stop. As someone said, one doesn't have just one syringe of heroin, and I certainly would never test the waters with a cigarette -- isn't alcohol just the same.
So why all the shame?? Maybe cause the perception is that most people are not addicted to alcohol, so if we are it makes us weak, but I don't think that it it.
I think the shame comes from the AV -- just like a bad date, sleep with me, oh, you slept with me, you must be a *****, instead it says, drink me, oh you drank me, you are a loser. Not sure why that is, but I know that is how it was, for me anyway.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I like that bad date comparison. Or like an abusive partner. It was hard to break up, painful, but it was the only way to go. No looking back - scorched earth policy and all that. Never going back to anything like that ever again. I was a loser then, that's true, but never again.
So, am I still liable to resume that relationship someday? Not on your life. If the door opened and she were there, I'd smile, and just close the door. And back to this discussion, how could I ever be over it if I still held out hope for a reunion? Could I say it was over for now but you never know what the future might bring? Nope. Not for me, anyway.
So, am I still liable to resume that relationship someday? Not on your life. If the door opened and she were there, I'd smile, and just close the door. And back to this discussion, how could I ever be over it if I still held out hope for a reunion? Could I say it was over for now but you never know what the future might bring? Nope. Not for me, anyway.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Fabat50 
Hi guys.
As some of you may have noticed as a newbie I sometimes have difficulty getting my head around some of the définitions you use on this forum.
There is talk about alcoholics and recovering alcoholics. But is there ever a point when we become "former alcoholics"? Or are we "recovering" for life?
Because we talk about "former drug addicts".
None of this really matters because all I care about is staying sober at the end of the day and I don't care what label I have on my forehead!But I guess my question is that I am curious for those of you who have been sober 5 10 15 20 years or more. Do you think of yourselves as 100 percent recovered? And if yes at what point did you feel sure that you were honestly recovered.
Wishing you all a great weekend.
As some of you may have noticed as a newbie I sometimes have difficulty getting my head around some of the définitions you use on this forum.
There is talk about alcoholics and recovering alcoholics. But is there ever a point when we become "former alcoholics"? Or are we "recovering" for life?
Because we talk about "former drug addicts".
None of this really matters because all I care about is staying sober at the end of the day and I don't care what label I have on my forehead!But I guess my question is that I am curious for those of you who have been sober 5 10 15 20 years or more. Do you think of yourselves as 100 percent recovered? And if yes at what point did you feel sure that you were honestly recovered.
Wishing you all a great weekend.
About 6 months in I knew I had it.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
for me, i liken it to being a parent.
i am a parent, and will always be one. whether i'm actively parenting or not.
if both my kids were to die, yes, i would still be a parent.
i cannot, somehow, become a "former parent".
so yeah, i'm recovered, and i'm still an alcoholic.
i am a parent, and will always be one. whether i'm actively parenting or not.
if both my kids were to die, yes, i would still be a parent.
i cannot, somehow, become a "former parent".
so yeah, i'm recovered, and i'm still an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SE Arizona
Posts: 1,099
I prefer to think of myself as a teetotaler. Sure, I used to drink too much but now I don't drink at all and will not drink ever again. Perhaps I once was an alcoholic but I don't believe I am one now; that was in the past and was another me. Now, I am a teetotaler and proud of it😀
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
In my 25th year of recovery, I'm definitely still an alcoholic and I keep going to AA so I don't forget (denial and rationalization are doing push ups!). And while I kn ow I have another drink in me I don't think I have another recovery. Recently someone asked if I ever think about having a cocktail. "A cocktail?" I said, "if I could have a drink I wouldn't be an alcoholic." I associate alcohol with getting drunk.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,126
I've recovered from the obsession to drink and drug, but even after five years of sobriety I am and will remain very much in recovery from my addictions.
I suspect that state will last until the day I die.
So, OP, no such thing as a former addict or alcoholic for me. Former drinker and pothead? Sure. But my brain has been wired to act out on my addictions for forty years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I am and will remain an alcoholic and addict, hence my commitment to sobriety and a state of mind of being in recovery.
I think the distinction, for me, is more than just semantics. I've recovered from the hopeless state of having no choice in drinking and drugging to now being able to choose to stay sober.
I suspect that state will last until the day I die.
So, OP, no such thing as a former addict or alcoholic for me. Former drinker and pothead? Sure. But my brain has been wired to act out on my addictions for forty years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I am and will remain an alcoholic and addict, hence my commitment to sobriety and a state of mind of being in recovery.
I think the distinction, for me, is more than just semantics. I've recovered from the hopeless state of having no choice in drinking and drugging to now being able to choose to stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 709
I don't like labels and to me, "alcoholic" -- recovering or not -- is a label. I also don't buy the disease model. I realize my opinion is not shared by many on this board, and that's fine. I just say that I don't drink, if I say anything at all. "Recovery" is also a buzzword I don't care for. I'm not "recovering" from anything, I just don't drink anymore.
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