Kindling
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Hi sleepie;
I had it bad too the first time I quit--I was totally sober 19 months, but honestly,
the first year I really felt "fuzzy" in the head--sometimes worse than others--
making decisions was hard, and I had times when cravings were really bad
for "seemingly" no reason externally.
Looking back, they seemed on a cycle of 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year.
Other symptoms were very bad withdrawals on subsequent relapses
(that's how I found SR, in fact--my first quit was without it)
difficulty sleeping, weird dreams, anxiety,
racing blood pressure, red face, felt hot, paranoid at times.
This time I am not having too many problems, which is strange because
Kindling / PAWS is supposed to be progressive.
I'm on day 33, and I feel pretty good.
I'm hoping it was because the last (and final) relapse was pretty brief.
My advice is just to hang in there--there will be good and bad days,
but overall, the trend seems to be towards getting better.
What symptoms in particular are you having?
I had it bad too the first time I quit--I was totally sober 19 months, but honestly,
the first year I really felt "fuzzy" in the head--sometimes worse than others--
making decisions was hard, and I had times when cravings were really bad
for "seemingly" no reason externally.
Looking back, they seemed on a cycle of 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year.
Other symptoms were very bad withdrawals on subsequent relapses
(that's how I found SR, in fact--my first quit was without it)
difficulty sleeping, weird dreams, anxiety,
racing blood pressure, red face, felt hot, paranoid at times.
This time I am not having too many problems, which is strange because
Kindling / PAWS is supposed to be progressive.
I'm on day 33, and I feel pretty good.
I'm hoping it was because the last (and final) relapse was pretty brief.
My advice is just to hang in there--there will be good and bad days,
but overall, the trend seems to be towards getting better.
What symptoms in particular are you having?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
Kindling is the progression of the severity of withdrawal symptoms as a result of multiple detoxes.
A kindled alcoholic brain is more susceptible to life-threatening withdrawal complications such as seizure, stroke, and delirium tremens (DTs).
When I was a normal social drinker, until about age 40, I had normal hangovers as a result of occasional overindulgence.
As my drinking progressed, I developed a tolerance to alcohol. Not only did I require more of the drug to produce the same intoxicating effect, but I became habituated to it so that my hangovers actually lessened.
There was a brief period when I had neither hangovers nor withdrawal symptoms as a consequence of drinking. The golden age of alcoholism! Little did I know how steep of a slope I was sliding down.
Then I noticed that each time I took "time off," I began developing withdrawal symptoms. Mild at first, they rapidly progressed over the course of a year or two. They lasted longer and longer each time I detoxed.
By the time I finally quit for good, my withdrawal symptoms were constant, and drinking provided only a brief respite. This is called maintenance drinking, and is a sign of the end stages of alcoholism.
For me, by the end, acute withdrawal blended with post-acute withdrawal (PAWS) to the point that any day for the first year or so could feel like "Day One" again. It was close to two years before the good days began to outnumber the bad. Now, at 2-3/4 years, I have bad days only occasionally.
Not sure if this is a textbook example of kindling (I never had seizures or DTs, although I think I came close), but can serve as an example of how one brain’s response to alcohol changed over the years, and how unpleasant and persistent the effects can be.
A kindled alcoholic brain is more susceptible to life-threatening withdrawal complications such as seizure, stroke, and delirium tremens (DTs).
When I was a normal social drinker, until about age 40, I had normal hangovers as a result of occasional overindulgence.
As my drinking progressed, I developed a tolerance to alcohol. Not only did I require more of the drug to produce the same intoxicating effect, but I became habituated to it so that my hangovers actually lessened.
There was a brief period when I had neither hangovers nor withdrawal symptoms as a consequence of drinking. The golden age of alcoholism! Little did I know how steep of a slope I was sliding down.
Then I noticed that each time I took "time off," I began developing withdrawal symptoms. Mild at first, they rapidly progressed over the course of a year or two. They lasted longer and longer each time I detoxed.
By the time I finally quit for good, my withdrawal symptoms were constant, and drinking provided only a brief respite. This is called maintenance drinking, and is a sign of the end stages of alcoholism.
For me, by the end, acute withdrawal blended with post-acute withdrawal (PAWS) to the point that any day for the first year or so could feel like "Day One" again. It was close to two years before the good days began to outnumber the bad. Now, at 2-3/4 years, I have bad days only occasionally.
Not sure if this is a textbook example of kindling (I never had seizures or DTs, although I think I came close), but can serve as an example of how one brain’s response to alcohol changed over the years, and how unpleasant and persistent the effects can be.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: illinois
Posts: 907
If the hangovers stayed the way they were in the "early days" I would still be drinking away alot of my time. Near the end-totally unpredictable. Sometimes (occasionally) I would think "man..I deserve a harsher hangover after last night..." But, more frequently it would be racing heart, elevated blood pressure and screaming anxiety in my head following a seven-beer night. I put up with that crap waaaaay longer than any right-minded person would. That's what I remind myself, when those sneaky thoughts rise up and suggest it wasn't all that bad. If ANYTHING else made me feel like that after consuming it, I would never touch it again.
When people use the "baffling" phrase, that's what I think about.
When people use the "baffling" phrase, that's what I think about.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: baltimore, maryland
Posts: 463
Hi Sleepie,
Yes, Kindling is for real!! I have tested this syndrome many times and everyone's description is the same. My withdrawals get worse with each detox. The length of my bender is shorter in duration...but my withdrawal is worse than ever. You would think a shorter binge would mean a more mild withdrawal, not the case. I have since stopped experimenting with this. I realized just a few days drinking throws me into a terrible detox....NOT WORTH IT!!! Life is so much better now....Best Wishes and Merry Christmas.
Yes, Kindling is for real!! I have tested this syndrome many times and everyone's description is the same. My withdrawals get worse with each detox. The length of my bender is shorter in duration...but my withdrawal is worse than ever. You would think a shorter binge would mean a more mild withdrawal, not the case. I have since stopped experimenting with this. I realized just a few days drinking throws me into a terrible detox....NOT WORTH IT!!! Life is so much better now....Best Wishes and Merry Christmas.
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,416
"Kindling" was definitely very real for me, with very few exceptions. There were a couple of times, inexplicably, I could quit with hardly any withdrawal symptoms at all, even after drinking for significantly long periods of time. But most times, each quit was notably worse. Over a period of about a year and a half, I had to go to the doctor for meds to help me safely quit, but the last 2 times I had to be sent to detox.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 151
Kindling was no joke for me. 3 or 4 years ago I began having mild withdrawal symptoms after a weekend bender, but these mostly consisted of anxiety, some shakiness, and insomnia. Over time each withdrawal became worse - shaking so bad I couldn't even pick up a glass of water, anxiety, racing heart, sweating, auditory and visual hallucinations, etc. A lot of the time I was drinking simply to relieve the withdrawal symptoms, which obviously created a vicious cycle of binging and detoxing, each time feeling worse. When I reached a point where I needed a break, I had to lay in bed for 2 or 3 days at a time, unable to eat or do much of anything until the symptoms subsided. Even when I did manage to limit my drinking to a couple beers (which was rare), I still had withdrawal that was bad enough to keep me home from work the next day. Eventually I ended up doing inpatient detox twice. I don't know how my body would react to another detox at this point, and I hope I never have to find out. I can tell you that about one month into sobriety I noticed a huge improvement in my physical and mental symptoms. I hear it continues to get better with time. Good luck to you, and I hope you feel better soon!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,614
That's what I noticed. The last time I had a couple, literally 2- I had pretty bad withdrawals. Not the kind that last for days and days but really intense and fast- like 2 or 3 hours after I had them. And it was only 2 drinks! And after several months of sobriety.
Guess I am literally only a drink away from death- for life?
Last time this happened I was having nightmares for weeks afterwards. That someone was driving me to a bar and making me have a drink- I was thinking "I'll die".
Anyway besides that I am in pretty bad shape. Not from drinking, but that this is a hard time of year. I lost the only person in my family who treated me in a non abusive manner around this time, several years ago. It wasn't pretty either. They were surrounded by scuzzy relatives who were eager to get at her assets and the small amount of money she had.
After I attempted years ago, none of my friends talked to me anymore- they took it personally. So I never had any grieving, or anyone to talk to. I just had to suck it up. I was in a fog, for about 3 months I only slept every 19-48 hours. So, I have a hard time at this point in the year.
Guess I am literally only a drink away from death- for life?
Last time this happened I was having nightmares for weeks afterwards. That someone was driving me to a bar and making me have a drink- I was thinking "I'll die".
Anyway besides that I am in pretty bad shape. Not from drinking, but that this is a hard time of year. I lost the only person in my family who treated me in a non abusive manner around this time, several years ago. It wasn't pretty either. They were surrounded by scuzzy relatives who were eager to get at her assets and the small amount of money she had.
After I attempted years ago, none of my friends talked to me anymore- they took it personally. So I never had any grieving, or anyone to talk to. I just had to suck it up. I was in a fog, for about 3 months I only slept every 19-48 hours. So, I have a hard time at this point in the year.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 214
I only have one symptom so far that has continued and that is anxiety. Don't know if it is kindling but I would also have it when withdrawing. It is rare occurance but in minutes I can convince myself that the sky is falling for no reason. Then it goes away in a half hour or so. Totally bizarre.
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 740
You probably had some kindling the last time you drank, but it sounds like you're experiencing some of the psychological effects of long-term drinking. I found that the physical effects of my drinking were gone after a few months, but I've just started to deal with the many psychological effects. It's daunting and exhausting, confusing, etc but probably normal. I'm doing this work too now, sleepie, so grab a shovel and start digging. Let's do this together.
D.
D.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Looking back at how my life USED to be.....what I considered to be acceptable or normal..... I'm more grateful then I could ever explain for all that pain. The suicidal thoughts that wouldn't stop, the constant chasing of anything on the earth I believed would "make me feel better," the withdrawals, the several years of the inability to sleep AFTER I got sober, the guilt, the shame, the utter hatred of myself, the self pity, the anxiety..........on and on.
I'm grateful for all of it - thankful for every second of it.
Why?
Because it was that pain, suffering, and utter butt-kicking that finally softened me up enough to begin taking actions that I didn't want to do at allllllll....to begin doing thing I was convinced wouldn't work......to start down a new path of living that I was positive wouldn't work, be any fun, or lead to anywhere ok let alone wonderful.
it's said that it's always darkest before the light - I get that statement now. Perhaps Sleepie, this is what's happening in your life. I wish the best for you.
I'm grateful for all of it - thankful for every second of it.
Why?
Because it was that pain, suffering, and utter butt-kicking that finally softened me up enough to begin taking actions that I didn't want to do at allllllll....to begin doing thing I was convinced wouldn't work......to start down a new path of living that I was positive wouldn't work, be any fun, or lead to anywhere ok let alone wonderful.
it's said that it's always darkest before the light - I get that statement now. Perhaps Sleepie, this is what's happening in your life. I wish the best for you.
G-Woman
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mississauga, ON
Posts: 979
I've experienced it 100%. Each time I would 'dry out' from a binge my recovery was longer and the symptoms were more acute. Shakiness, anxiety, nausea, dizziness, you name it. One of the more recent symptoms is extreme sensitivity to sound.
Not fun at all. Looking forward to ending them once and for all, but I know it's a long slog ahead of me.
Not fun at all. Looking forward to ending them once and for all, but I know it's a long slog ahead of me.
Recoverer of Self
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 297
I've never heard of this before, I've of coarse heard of withdrawals, and had them....as an almost daily drinker for 30 yrs, maybe this is what's happening to me..... maybe this is why day 11 is absolute HELL!!!!!!
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Pretty sure it's real. Reading about it really seemed to match what I was living with. The few weeks can be real hard physically and psychologically and the interplay between the two, but its , unfortunately, the price we have to pay (giving the piper his due) for the years of abuse , it gets better , just have to trust that and keep trucking. It will not get better and will likely get much worse if any alcohol is consumed , so Don't
Simple not easy , but definitely doable anything that says otherwise is the AV
rootin for ya
Simple not easy , but definitely doable anything that says otherwise is the AV
rootin for ya
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