Rio97

Good job, Beautifulpines, I agree, SR is helpful. I don't know, maybe my last post didn't make much sense. For now, I'm going to rely on here as much as I can until I can formulate a plan. I suppose AA isn't for everyone.

Rio97

This comes to mind. There's an old family heirloom that was left to me by my grandmother. My father kept it till he died about 10 years ago when I got it. This heirloom has a funny affect on me, I can't even keep it in my house. My sister kept it for me. I tried giving it to her 10 years ago and she said she would only hold it for me - I could have it back when I wanted it. This has bothered me. I recently told her I don't want it back, and she keeps saying I can have it back when I want it. Now I want to give it to my cousin, which upset her and made her mad. I don't understand this difficult behavior. I want the issue settled. Anyway, that's part of it. That may sound rediculous, I don't know. But since I'm dumping, I figure what the hell. Whatever it takes not to drink, Rio.

Rio97

Nevermind

Dee74

As I understand it it was left to you...if you want to give it away, give it away.
If your sister is mad, then she's mad.

That's not within your control

D

Rio97

It's complicated, my cousin lives a long way away, and I haven't spoken to her in probably 20 years (not out of any animosity). But, when it comes down to it, Dee, you're right.

I think I've said enough. I just need to focus on staying sober.

EndGameNYC

We often identify with our persecutors in order to "survive" their abuse. We see this most obviously in what's referred to as The Stockholm Syndrome. Among parents and their children, the identification is already set in stone before the more overt versions of the abuse even occur.

How many people here or who you know or have known continue or continued to go back to the empty well, to their abusive and abusing parents, hoping for the love and care they've never gotten? The same dynamic occurs in abusive couples. We'll even go as far as to defend the aggressors, driven by both the defensive delusion that either they are "not that bad (It's all my fault.)," or that they will some day come around, admit their wrongdoing, and make loving amends. Instead of believing myself to be unlovable, I will ultimately be loved. I've seen this time and again when treating patients in psychotherapy.

Later on in life, long after the obvious damage has been done, we take it upon ourselves to continue the abuse by being harsh with ourselves, destroying ourselves for never living up to our often unrealistic expectations. We refuse to indict our "loving" parents or partners, so we've no one else to blame but ourselves. We act out in our relationships, at work and in what often become our very private lives. Drinking ourselves to death, or just drinking in order to destroy our lives, is an effective strategy, one that we mistake as our legacy.

Alice Miller's The Drama of the Gifted Child: The Search for the True Self, might be worth a look.

fini

yes, Alice Miller was a great help to me. her books, i mean.

though even with that, i kept going back to the mostly-empty well, knowing it was not entirely empty but could never provide what i needed.
i understood, too, that from way way back this had let me know that having a need, any need, was already "WRONG!!"
getting drunk fit into all this so very easily and so very well.

Rio97

Wow, Endgame, that's quite a description. I'm a bit embarrassed I posted that now. But thanks for your insight. I'll see if I can find the book.

fini

and just to continue all about me:
Verte, what was so cool for me was that it was intuitive. there was none of what i had done in the past in situations like this: hesitate. find someone else to confer with. chicken out. doubt. be indecisive. need my impression validated.
the reason it was cool for me was because i felt such clarity and upon returning home had one of the step nine promises in my head: we will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
i've heard that often enough, but i hadn't quite believed that this might happen, really. wow.

fini

oh Rio,
shining the light into some of the nooks and crannies... so worthwhile , even if we get self-conscious doing it.

EndGameNYC

Unlike a bad parent, I'm not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't feel, or that you misunderstood what I said/wrote.

You were programmed by your masters to feel embarrassment or, worse, shame, when you express the truth about your feelings.

silentrun

Awesome thread and comments! I can relate to much of it so thank you for the suggestions especially the book. My parents never really saw a problem with their behavior as it was always someone or something else causing the problem. Even trying to bring up their bad behavior is met with a blank stare or anger because it doesn't fit their narrative. I am still feeling some anger off and on so I know I haven't fully accepted that as reality. This helps though, so thanks.

Rio97

Actually, Endgame, I don't defend my "masters". I've suspected they were screwing me over for too long and have only wanted someone to call them out on it - which no one ever does. I've basically been gaslighted, and blamed for all of my problems, and given meds. I'm sure drinking has exascerbated the problem, which is my own fault.

If I get anything from your post, is that validation. So this has helped. I wouldn't expect you to know my whole story based on a few threads.

Perhaps, I should take a break from this thread, at least until later. Maybe there'll be some more perspective to draw from. Or maybe it will sink down into oblivion.

silentrun

Oh your that kid. That is my brother. He was the one that saw through the BS right away. I was the kid that tried to make everything seem normal and was in denial. I have since apologized to him for not seeing it. I hope your siblings come around too.

EndGameNYC

You never defended your parents' abuse in your comments, and I never suggested that you defended them in mine.

I unpacked this particular dynamic in order to demonstrate some of its known variations for other people who may be in a similar situation. If you read any of the books recommended in your thread, you'll read about all kinds of compromises and sacrifices that different people feel forced to make in their lives as a result of parental abuse. It doesn't mean that all or any of them necessarily apply to you.

Having said that, your comment about stepping away from your thread indicates that I may have offended you in some way, and for that I apologize. My only interest is to help you through this particular stage of your struggle.

Rio97

Sorry for stepping away, EndGameNYC, I just had divulged a lot of things I had kept to myself for a long time and I needed a break. It's a lot to take in and digest. I appreciate yours and everyone's responses. I was a little ruffled, but not offended.

And I understand, I'll look into those books.

biminiblue

Rio, I understand having to step away when triggered into thinking deeply about painful truths. Keep talking, this is a safe place to work through this stuff. I can relate to your pain, and I know a lot of other alcoholics can as well. It's helpful to lots of people reading in the wings to talk about the insidious, methodical invalidation that occurs in families. That's how I took the power away from them - by talking and journaling. I didn't ever get healing words from the people who were hurting me. That's part of the dynamic of this type of relationship. Denial by the abusers.

As they say, I can't go to the hardware store for a loaf of bread.

We understand.

Rio97

Yea, Bimini, this is new for me. I appreciate your support.