Self-destruction / Self-Sabotage
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
TryGuy,
there's no point in trying to understand how she sees things.
she sees it through alcoholic eyes, and while it's very nice you're wanting to comprehend where she's coming from, you can't.
it's not a rational place, and it's not comprehendable in a rational way.
Had my GF ever come to me and said "your drinking is hurting the way I look at you" or "your drinking is hurting our relationship" or even "I want to stop drinking, will you stop too?" (I did before)...I would have done it in a heartbeat.
So the fact that I had that conversation with her, and there was not even a moment's consideration (instead, just attacks about controlling, being an adult and free to do what she wants, having to walk on eggshells, etc)...It immediately shows you where I rank without having to take it any further.
this is a perfect example. you'd do the responsible and caring thing because you're a "normal" drinker.
she has not a moment's consideration, hears only a threat to her ability to keep drinking, and therefore defends by attacking you.
when i was still drinking, i couldn't see how i put booze before everything else. those "hierarchies" would have struck me as ludicrous. and they are. they assume a rational ranking being made by the person.
it's not how it is.
it's not understandable, but the sooner you can accept that you can't "get" it or "fix it", the healthier for you and your future.
be well.
there's no point in trying to understand how she sees things.
she sees it through alcoholic eyes, and while it's very nice you're wanting to comprehend where she's coming from, you can't.
it's not a rational place, and it's not comprehendable in a rational way.
Had my GF ever come to me and said "your drinking is hurting the way I look at you" or "your drinking is hurting our relationship" or even "I want to stop drinking, will you stop too?" (I did before)...I would have done it in a heartbeat.
So the fact that I had that conversation with her, and there was not even a moment's consideration (instead, just attacks about controlling, being an adult and free to do what she wants, having to walk on eggshells, etc)...It immediately shows you where I rank without having to take it any further.
this is a perfect example. you'd do the responsible and caring thing because you're a "normal" drinker.
she has not a moment's consideration, hears only a threat to her ability to keep drinking, and therefore defends by attacking you.
when i was still drinking, i couldn't see how i put booze before everything else. those "hierarchies" would have struck me as ludicrous. and they are. they assume a rational ranking being made by the person.
it's not how it is.
it's not understandable, but the sooner you can accept that you can't "get" it or "fix it", the healthier for you and your future.
be well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Venecia,
What a sad story and thank you so much for sharing it. I need to hear things like this. When it happens to you, you think, I have to be an anomaly, I have to be doing something wrong, so many of those around me are making it work, they are staying together...This must just be something we can work out.
Even many of the folks I chat with and tell the story to are in disbelief. Having never had to face it, even they want to hope there is a way that it can be worked out.
Such a weird situation in that everyone I talk to doesn't know the extent of her issues. I've helped her hide it and we have mostly long-distance family and friends, so when we are together, drinking has been a "normal" thing (hey it's a special occasion whoopee, let's get out the alcohol!).
So it's really interesting to hear how your friend's parents knew he had problems AND tried to call it off. But not HIS parents or family or friends. It's almost like "please take this alcoholic off our hands and help him" or at least get him out of our care or something...What an incredible story.
15+ years lost due to two people who both didn't take what was good advice, huh. Wow. That is something.
Exit strategy luckily for me has been sort of put upon me without a lot of choice in the matter and the more I think about it, this is the most loving thing she can do for me right now.
4 years ago, a month before I was about to go through with the wedding (and I was), she started abusing alcohol to a very high level and had an affair. It was a gift, saying "Are you crazy? Don't marry me!" After some time when we reconnected, we (stupidly I guess) chalked it up to nerves, misunderstanding, blamed each other, the whole nine.
Here we sit 4 years later and she's the one who has been distancing herself. The alcohol consumption has gone up. She's gone more. Just an affair? Alcohol plus affair? Just alcohol? Does it matter? Her actions are showing me she's ready to walk out the door. This makes my exit plan something I don't even have to come up with. I just try and weather this insanity until moving day comes (last time, it took a few weeks, and I imagine it will be similar this time).
Once that happens, I just need to know that this time, it has to be it. She can't decide she misses me and come back. She can't even get sober, decide she misses me, and come back. Strike two and you're out. I hope she sobers up. I hope she finds the right way.
Like you said though, "they always do" when it comes to finding a way to continue living the way they want to live. She can continue this cycle with as many men as she wants until she's tired of it or she drops over. I had hoped there would be a way to make this my life's love with a speed bump in the middle. Two speed bumps though? That's two too many.
What a sad story and thank you so much for sharing it. I need to hear things like this. When it happens to you, you think, I have to be an anomaly, I have to be doing something wrong, so many of those around me are making it work, they are staying together...This must just be something we can work out.
Even many of the folks I chat with and tell the story to are in disbelief. Having never had to face it, even they want to hope there is a way that it can be worked out.
Such a weird situation in that everyone I talk to doesn't know the extent of her issues. I've helped her hide it and we have mostly long-distance family and friends, so when we are together, drinking has been a "normal" thing (hey it's a special occasion whoopee, let's get out the alcohol!).
So it's really interesting to hear how your friend's parents knew he had problems AND tried to call it off. But not HIS parents or family or friends. It's almost like "please take this alcoholic off our hands and help him" or at least get him out of our care or something...What an incredible story.
15+ years lost due to two people who both didn't take what was good advice, huh. Wow. That is something.
Exit strategy luckily for me has been sort of put upon me without a lot of choice in the matter and the more I think about it, this is the most loving thing she can do for me right now.
4 years ago, a month before I was about to go through with the wedding (and I was), she started abusing alcohol to a very high level and had an affair. It was a gift, saying "Are you crazy? Don't marry me!" After some time when we reconnected, we (stupidly I guess) chalked it up to nerves, misunderstanding, blamed each other, the whole nine.
Here we sit 4 years later and she's the one who has been distancing herself. The alcohol consumption has gone up. She's gone more. Just an affair? Alcohol plus affair? Just alcohol? Does it matter? Her actions are showing me she's ready to walk out the door. This makes my exit plan something I don't even have to come up with. I just try and weather this insanity until moving day comes (last time, it took a few weeks, and I imagine it will be similar this time).
Once that happens, I just need to know that this time, it has to be it. She can't decide she misses me and come back. She can't even get sober, decide she misses me, and come back. Strike two and you're out. I hope she sobers up. I hope she finds the right way.
Like you said though, "they always do" when it comes to finding a way to continue living the way they want to live. She can continue this cycle with as many men as she wants until she's tired of it or she drops over. I had hoped there would be a way to make this my life's love with a speed bump in the middle. Two speed bumps though? That's two too many.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
TG, good to hear you've got an exit strategy in the works. If I read your post correctly, she is moving out?
I'm so happy for my friend. Her life is so much better now. She is talented and highly respected in her field. The vibrant, smart woman I first met when she lived two doors down from me in the dorms is back. We missed her for many years.
You asked where *his* family was. He was typical of his family, unfortunately. She hated family holidays most of all -- a bunch of drunks in her home treating her like she was the problem. Sigh.
None of my friends knew I had developed alcoholism. I was the consummate closet drinker. I know it's no coincidence that she has been my most supportive friend and I'm grateful for the kind words she's offered since I spilled the beans about 18 months ago.
Glad you found SR. Some of us post in multiple forums. I pretty much stick to those most connected to my world -- I'm two days away from my second sober-versary -- but occasionally read other forums. There are great people here, as well as in the F & F groups. I believe that Zoso, one of the F& F moderators, also is a guy who has walked a mile in your shoes (or something similar) and he and the other mods do a great job there. Again, you're welcome in any of the forums. You're among friends.
There's life after alcoholism and addiction for all of us. And this life is so much better.
Take good care of yourself and hope the exit goes smoothly. An emotionally healthy life awaits.
You'll find tremendous support here
I'm so happy for my friend. Her life is so much better now. She is talented and highly respected in her field. The vibrant, smart woman I first met when she lived two doors down from me in the dorms is back. We missed her for many years.
You asked where *his* family was. He was typical of his family, unfortunately. She hated family holidays most of all -- a bunch of drunks in her home treating her like she was the problem. Sigh.
None of my friends knew I had developed alcoholism. I was the consummate closet drinker. I know it's no coincidence that she has been my most supportive friend and I'm grateful for the kind words she's offered since I spilled the beans about 18 months ago.
Glad you found SR. Some of us post in multiple forums. I pretty much stick to those most connected to my world -- I'm two days away from my second sober-versary -- but occasionally read other forums. There are great people here, as well as in the F & F groups. I believe that Zoso, one of the F& F moderators, also is a guy who has walked a mile in your shoes (or something similar) and he and the other mods do a great job there. Again, you're welcome in any of the forums. You're among friends.
There's life after alcoholism and addiction for all of us. And this life is so much better.
Take good care of yourself and hope the exit goes smoothly. An emotionally healthy life awaits.
You'll find tremendous support here
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by fini 
TryGuy,
there's no point in trying to understand how she sees things.
she sees it through alcoholic eyes, and while it's very nice you're wanting to comprehend where she's coming from, you can't.
it's not a rational place, and it's not comprehendable in a rational way.
Had my GF ever come to me and said "your drinking is hurting the way I look at you" or "your drinking is hurting our relationship" or even "I want to stop drinking, will you stop too?" (I did before)...I would have done it in a heartbeat.
So the fact that I had that conversation with her, and there was not even a moment's consideration (instead, just attacks about controlling, being an adult and free to do what she wants, having to walk on eggshells, etc)...It immediately shows you where I rank without having to take it any further.
this is a perfect example. you'd do the responsible and caring thing because you're a "normal" drinker.
she has not a moment's consideration, hears only a threat to her ability to keep drinking, and therefore defends by attacking you.
when i was still drinking, i couldn't see how i put booze before everything else. those "hierarchies" would have struck me as ludicrous. and they are. they assume a rational ranking being made by the person.
it's not how it is.
it's not understandable, but the sooner you can accept that you can't "get" it or "fix it", the healthier for you and your future.
be well.
there's no point in trying to understand how she sees things.
she sees it through alcoholic eyes, and while it's very nice you're wanting to comprehend where she's coming from, you can't.
it's not a rational place, and it's not comprehendable in a rational way.
Had my GF ever come to me and said "your drinking is hurting the way I look at you" or "your drinking is hurting our relationship" or even "I want to stop drinking, will you stop too?" (I did before)...I would have done it in a heartbeat.
So the fact that I had that conversation with her, and there was not even a moment's consideration (instead, just attacks about controlling, being an adult and free to do what she wants, having to walk on eggshells, etc)...It immediately shows you where I rank without having to take it any further.
this is a perfect example. you'd do the responsible and caring thing because you're a "normal" drinker.
she has not a moment's consideration, hears only a threat to her ability to keep drinking, and therefore defends by attacking you.
when i was still drinking, i couldn't see how i put booze before everything else. those "hierarchies" would have struck me as ludicrous. and they are. they assume a rational ranking being made by the person.
it's not how it is.
it's not understandable, but the sooner you can accept that you can't "get" it or "fix it", the healthier for you and your future.
be well.
At this stage, I'm where I was 4 years ago again. After the slow, gradual rift grew between us again due to the alcohol pushing us apart, we're at defcon 1 and now I'm just waiting for the slow exit to occur. If history repeats (and it's almost textbook to 4 years ago) she will come get all her things and move out swiftly (and suddenly, I don't expect much notice) but these days leading up to it will continue to have the ups and downs -- For whatever reason, she likes to inflict as much discomfort and mental torture with the disappearing act, followed by normalcy, whistling, cheerfulness around the house, etc...As much mental manipulation as she can pull until she finally walks out and closes the door.
I had these little backslides last time where I got pulled into the drama though I'm doing a lot better this time. I didn't think going out to see a friend for dinner for 2 hours last night was going to get the reaction it did, but I need to learn that she wants the drama on the way out, some odd need to inflict discomfort any way she can I suppose.
Thanks for such great insight, really like your post in that there is no such thing as a ranking, or right vs. wrong, it's all about the alcohol being an analogy for everything else (freedom/adulthood/etc) and when you mention the alcohol is a problem, you may as well mention that their right arm is a problem, losing it is just an unthinkable idea.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
TryGuy,
Here is my thought----I am a women and had a boyfriend who I might add I married--AFTER--I got sober. Now this works sometimes after 8 years of splits we finally made it ..............BUT, here is the thing:
We all have our ISSUES as humans, even if we are not alcoholics.
Drinking is just one coping mechanism we use to get through the squirrely thoughts! My Father died when I was 6, I had issues with trust and men , and gre up really fast never to be taken advantage of by a man. SOOOO without a healthy Father Daughter trusting relationship I built walls to keep my feelings always under MY control. As soon as I began to feel vulnerable in a relationship I bolted back to the safeness of my "Alcohol Lover". Back into my safe little space of trusting no one else except ME through alcohol.
Some Men and Women are like this with or without alcohol. Life experiences color our worlds and we find a comfortable corner to fit and it is hard to come out----am I making sense????
I got sober for MYSELF only, because I finally realized I was the only one I could do it for since I trusted NO ONE Else.
So my dear friend, this is what must happen for you GF. I sincerely hope she finds sobriety while still in your relationship--but remember things are really meant to be. I ended up married to the man I was supposed to marry. We broke up SOOOOOO many times (he did not even know I was an alcoholic), but yet because the universe had plans for us I quit drinking first for me and I was just lucky he did not find someone else.
Of course this is not to say you should hang around waitin----NO MOVE ON--if it is meant to be ---so it will be.
Good Luck,
Trix
Here is my thought----I am a women and had a boyfriend who I might add I married--AFTER--I got sober. Now this works sometimes after 8 years of splits we finally made it ..............BUT, here is the thing:
We all have our ISSUES as humans, even if we are not alcoholics.
Drinking is just one coping mechanism we use to get through the squirrely thoughts! My Father died when I was 6, I had issues with trust and men , and gre up really fast never to be taken advantage of by a man. SOOOO without a healthy Father Daughter trusting relationship I built walls to keep my feelings always under MY control. As soon as I began to feel vulnerable in a relationship I bolted back to the safeness of my "Alcohol Lover". Back into my safe little space of trusting no one else except ME through alcohol.
Some Men and Women are like this with or without alcohol. Life experiences color our worlds and we find a comfortable corner to fit and it is hard to come out----am I making sense????
I got sober for MYSELF only, because I finally realized I was the only one I could do it for since I trusted NO ONE Else.
So my dear friend, this is what must happen for you GF. I sincerely hope she finds sobriety while still in your relationship--but remember things are really meant to be. I ended up married to the man I was supposed to marry. We broke up SOOOOOO many times (he did not even know I was an alcoholic), but yet because the universe had plans for us I quit drinking first for me and I was just lucky he did not find someone else.
Of course this is not to say you should hang around waitin----NO MOVE ON--if it is meant to be ---so it will be.
Good Luck,
Trix
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Trix,
Thank you for sharing that with me. I know I can no longer be her doormat or tolerate her actions. The escalated bad behavior and absence in the face of my having enough of the drinking convinces me as such.
My GF had a terrible childhood, raised only by her mother, and began using drugs and alcohol at a very early age. Her background alone gave her a poor start at everything. It is the naive thoughts of a caring co-dependent type like me to think that showing her a better life is enough.
9 years is a good run and even the final 4 years of that, after this happened before, I am thankful for the time with her. I will remember everything but am thankful for the good times. I will never forget how wonderful she blossomed when she was 5 months sober. I know there is a wonderful girl in there somewhere with so much promise and potential, and hope she can decide to find that in herself again.
In the months we were apart last time I stayed out of contact and got back to living but kept holding on for hope of a reconciliation that did come. I won't do that this time. The girl that came back to me had the same problems as the girl that left. For her sake, I hope that whatever direction her life takes next, she is not making more poor choices and just starting this all over again.
As you advise, I won't be waiting around. I admit I got comfort in having her and the dog around, and I will be lonely at times, though I have an excellent family and friend system (though sadly, most not nearby), but I am strong and know I can get through this.
Thanks again so much for sharing your thoughts having been through it yourself. I know that drinking is part of the problem but that there's always more to it than that, and I also know that self-evaluation is necessary as I'm certainly not perfect and need to make sure work is done on myself should I move on to a new relationship for myself down the road.
Thank you for sharing that with me. I know I can no longer be her doormat or tolerate her actions. The escalated bad behavior and absence in the face of my having enough of the drinking convinces me as such.
My GF had a terrible childhood, raised only by her mother, and began using drugs and alcohol at a very early age. Her background alone gave her a poor start at everything. It is the naive thoughts of a caring co-dependent type like me to think that showing her a better life is enough.
9 years is a good run and even the final 4 years of that, after this happened before, I am thankful for the time with her. I will remember everything but am thankful for the good times. I will never forget how wonderful she blossomed when she was 5 months sober. I know there is a wonderful girl in there somewhere with so much promise and potential, and hope she can decide to find that in herself again.
In the months we were apart last time I stayed out of contact and got back to living but kept holding on for hope of a reconciliation that did come. I won't do that this time. The girl that came back to me had the same problems as the girl that left. For her sake, I hope that whatever direction her life takes next, she is not making more poor choices and just starting this all over again.
As you advise, I won't be waiting around. I admit I got comfort in having her and the dog around, and I will be lonely at times, though I have an excellent family and friend system (though sadly, most not nearby), but I am strong and know I can get through this.
Thanks again so much for sharing your thoughts having been through it yourself. I know that drinking is part of the problem but that there's always more to it than that, and I also know that self-evaluation is necessary as I'm certainly not perfect and need to make sure work is done on myself should I move on to a new relationship for myself down the road.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
Well TryGuy....you sound like one of the good ones wish you were around when I was in my prime. My husband and I went together for 8years, and he hung around too, so I guess he was the good guy for me!!
I have every belief your life will be the wonderful you deserve, whatever direction it takes.
P.S---Admit it though, It's the DOG you really MISS!!!! Those wonderful creatures never give us problems just LOVE---No alcoholic dogs out there.
Best of Luck,
Trix
I have every belief your life will be the wonderful you deserve, whatever direction it takes.
P.S---Admit it though, It's the DOG you really MISS!!!! Those wonderful creatures never give us problems just LOVE---No alcoholic dogs out there.
Best of Luck,
Trix
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