AnonSara

Thanks everyone. I am still thinking about where I am with this. (I know thinking is dangerous territory).

I will say that I am not focused on the steps or in as good of contact with my sponsor as I know I could be. One of the greatest things I did at the start of my sobriety was write a huge journal entry on why I stopped drinking. I have read this and it is very helpful. Keeps me grounded

I also had the wonderful opportunity of spending time at a winery I used to LOVE going to last night with family who still drinks an insane amount of alcohol. While I enjoyed myself at the event (outdoor live music!!) I just about felt sick watching the amount people consumed, thinking about how I used and what I would feel like today if I had decided to drink. Of course, I still like to imagine I would have not over-done it. But I honestly know I would want more today if I hadn't "gotten enough" the night before. One of the things I remembered last night that I hadn't thought about in a while was that I used to go to this winery drinking a "reasonable amount" of wine but having a water bottle filled with vodka so I could really get the job done. That thought did jolt me back to reality.

I think I'll take another 24 for today.

fini

Of course, I still like to imagine I would have not over-done it.

this, i think, is where some of our choices are.
in where and how we direct the imagination.
what imaginations we entertain and feed.

it really really helped me cement my sobriety to imagine myself sober at different places, spaces, stages of life, settings, events.

TrixMixer

Edited and bolded by TrixMixer

Hi Itchy,

I believe the key phrase here is "I am only Me"!

........and me is different for every alcoholic --their experiences when they drank and their experience staying sober!

Makes me wonder what kind of recovering alcoholic I am?

Sober for 25 years----but still wish I could drink, still think about drinking, . If God told me I could drink with all of the good and none of the bad???.......sign me up!

Now Cypher I loathed for betraying his team, but not for wanting to go back to the protected safe womb. Did you see how they lived in their freedom. Can't blame the guy for wanting a great steak!!

The important thing is that we remain sober ---how each one of us does that is their business. I did not go through AA and work the Steps---sure hope that does not make all these years sober a waste.

The one thing sobriety has taught me is to be honest with myself and if I were to say I never thought about drinking, the good times and bad or trying to drink in moderation I would be lying.

I personally believe it is dangerous to suggest that never thinking about alcohol or drinking in moderation makes one less likely to stay sober or attain that sobriety. Everyone is different and I dare say there are many recovering alcoholics that may think often about alcohol and would happily take God up on her offer-----if they are truly honest with themselves . It does not make your sobriety less than someone else's. Staying sober is the common denominator for success, however one chooses to do it, don't you think??

Trix

Itchy

There is no less or better. I did not do the steps because I essentially taught them. I did not go through the AA steps either. Had no sponsor either. I credit the people there with helping me through some pretty scary PAWS. Which is what I also came to SR for before AA. I left AA after three months. Free is a pretty good price for F2F, which I also needed at first. I just wanted to be able to check with others that my experience was not our of the realm of normative.

I did not suggest that thinking about alcohol was going to lead to relapse because I do not believe relapse is a part of recovery. I did imply and still do that after a while, however long that is for each, the craving leaves or reduces to very little.

I do think it is dangerous to suggest that for the rest of our lives we will feel deprived, as in fighting cravings or wanting to drink until we die. I know there is a large group in and out of AA that believe that is the case and that we can never recover. If by recovery one means to be able to drink or moderate then you misunderstand what recovery is to me.

I am recovered because I have better things to do, and think about, than alcohol. People drinking around me are no focal point wanting to see if they have alcohol. No more than I would focus on what soft drinks one might be drinking different than me two tables over.

I can never drink alcohol again because the risk of being ensnared again in an addiction to either smoking or drinking, both of which I quit in that medical detox, is one I will never try on mentally or in reality. Wayyyy too dangerous.

I think it is possibly a good goal to work towards not feeling deprived of drinking, but rather having gained sobriety.

I made it. I am grateful to the folks here and at my little AA meeting. My mother who is gone now believed in a religion , which belief I did not share. But I loved her anyway, very much.

I feel much the same about my friends in AA who believe that they will battle one day at a time for the rest of their lives despite the BB mentioning recovery as a goal 28 times.

I think it is dangerous to be in cognitive dissonance, which is when our beliefs and behaviors are in conflict, which causes us distress. The only way to resolve the stress is to either change the belief or change the behavior. I believed alcohol would kill me yet I could not quit for the last couple of years. Some folks change their belief that it will eventually kill us and keep drinking with no more stress. Some change the behavior and keep the belief in how dangerous it is for us alcoholics recovered or not. I don't know what belief you felt was attacked by my post. But I hope you realize I am not an attacker, and will not be aggressive in return. Perhaps you might even understand where I am coming from one day, without having to agree with me or be wrong.

I not only think getting to where we do not crave or want alcohol is a worthy goal, but one that all sober alcoholics can eventually experience.

See my sig block about dragons and reality.

I believe the cravings and desire to drink leave us all over time be that a determined mental switch thrown when making the decision to quit once and for all, or later in sobriety.

Perhaps we might extend that possibility as something to be hoped for.

Be well Trix. We have today the biggest thing in common, we are both sober today. I may be different in that I let it go for eternity. That is a choice each must make for themselves. I do not miss it, and am not limited by not drinking any more than someone who never liked it and is not a drinker.

I am grateful that we can disagree in sobriety and not worked up over a nothing because we are under the influence.

Any way you choose to walk your path is fine by me.

Bunnymen1

I'm on my 7th day now, and I couldn't agree more with the posts on here about complete abstinence. Personally, I couldn't have a glass of wine, because then I'd have to have a bottle, then 2 more. This is why I'm here, because I could never be a 'normal' drinker, whatever that is. Btw, excuse my ignorance, but what is AV?

amp123

Av means "addictive voice". It's the internal thought process that tries to hijack your sobriety convincing you it's OK to have a drink. A wily beast, make no mistake!!!

Bunnymen1

Thank you amp123. Yes, I recognise it now!

MelindaFlowers

Powerful words right here. This pretty much nails it. Trying to control it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life. On the rare nights when I stopped at two drinks (this was rare and only when forced to stop at two. Or I could NOT get more than two (work event let's say)) it was hell. Drinking two actually brought more discontent and unease than just not drinking.

TrixMixer

Hi Itchy,

Well that paragraph above did not come out the way I meant it. The key word would be "thinking" about drinking in moderation. I would be the first one to tell someone once you are sober you can never drink in moderation. We are only fooling ourselves if we believe that.

I happen to be someone who still misses drinking from time to time, but reflect back on my drinking days as one would on a memory of a time gone by when I was a child.

I have always agreed with most of your posts, but was just being honest and hoping since see my drinking experience a little different than others here-----but I am still good with maintaining sobriety!

Sorry to have jumped in and muddied the waters. LOL!
Trix

thomas11

Wow, that was me to a "T". Two drinks, why bother? I'm guessing that's a bad sign.

BackToSquareOne

If you really oversimplify it, the feel good feelings from alcohol last a few hours but the problem you can't get past is the stuff always wears off!! You end up feeling worse than before you started, you get short term relief but end up with a long term nightmare. It always turns on you!

Itchy

I hated drinking because I drank all day every day and grew sickened by the malty residue of drinking 24-30 beers a day. I drank box red wine to cut that horrible taste and it had a sour stomach effect. IN the mornings of my last two years drinking I had the shakes so bad that I could barely hold a cup of coffee and I had to have two shots of my wife's scotch in each of my first five cups of coffee to get a bit more steady. Problem was I would puke it up about half the mornings and had to try again to keep it down to stop the DTs.

Trix,
Don't worry you can't muddy my waters. It is your moral obligation to walk your path. It is good to agree to disagree. See, I have no fond memories of alcohol that I look back on like childhood. I had a great and sober childhood, young adulthood and career, and started drinking for relaxation at 45 more than before. By 56 I was as above. At 58 I quit once and for all time.

I missed sober life and not worrying about my alcohol supply and driving anytime, night or day. I had decades of thinking I was suave and sophisticated drinking expensive and rare liquors, liqueurs, brews, wines, and distillations.

I was a normal drinker. A six pack stayed in my fridge for a week or four.

I never really drank when trouble and challenges came my way. In fact I refused to drink at times like that at all before I became addicted. But after addiction set in, my misery was my lack of self respect, discipline, and control over my drinking. That is all I remember.

I wrote while drinking that " Alcohol provides us an avenue to run away from all of our problems . . . except the results of using alcohol. <sigh> "

I have no problem with your feelings as they are yours. They are valid for you.

They don't invalidate my complete revulsion at the idea of me drinking yet having no problem with my wife drinking and smoking in front of me. I just have trouble understanding why folks quit who have such fond memories and feel deprived of doing something they like. But many do.

I had no legal problems, did not kill anyone, did not abuse my wife or lose anything. If anything I made a lot more money just before I quit. I bought a lot of Tesla when it IPO'd at $17 and $22.5. Had I been sober I would not have taken several days to buy the second block of shares at ~30% more.

I don't have the dramatic stories of loss and destruction. I just lived, for me, degraded, and motor mouthed for too long. I have not one single bright memory of drinking. Oh sure some not terrible ones, but all leading up to slow self destruction. Slow suicide. And I am not suicidal. I have no respect for that guy I was drinking. I won't allow folks like him that mess up my life to be in it anymore. Not even me.

I love my sobriety unconditionally. I can again love me, not just be self centered to the exclusion of the feelings of others.

So no, I won't say I had or have any nice memories of drinking other than that the ones before addiction led to it.

Sobriety EZ,? What a concept. When I checked into that detox program at the VA hospital, I sure never thought it would ever be this easy for me, and be as comfortable with sobriety as an old friend. I'm back for me. The guy I like.

I cannot drink in moderation despite my complete lack of temptation, good memories, or desire for alcohol. I can toast as earnestly with a grapefruit diet Shasta on the rocks. Or for special occasions a fruity cooler. I want no buzz.

Somehow that bothers some. But to reiterate my point, no way moderation will work. I won't try it with 5 years of sobriety with no cravings at all.

The danger never leaves, if we let it wait for us just outside our emotional door. My relationship with alcohol or any drug that changes my consciousness is over. When I drank I did not do drugs for fear of interactions. No pain killers save Naproxin (Alleve.)

I have nothing to need relief from.

AnonSara

That helps so much. I didn't acknowledge how bad my drinking was until the last year. I was doing exactly what you described and I was so miserable I didn't want to live. And that's where I would end up by going back there. That is a terrifying realitity I need to remember.

BackToSquareOne

You nailed it there Itchy, that's what always happens with the drinking all day, every day thing. Sooner or later you black out, pass out, fall asleep or whatever and wake up with full blown withdrawal about to kick in. If you happen to be too sick to get enough alcohol down to avoid the DTs you are in a world of trouble. People die like that all the time.

polaris

Well...I look at it like this. You may be able to "moderate" to a point. I believe I can as well, I dont think that trigger/"insanity" is automatically set off with the first drink.

However...the bigger question is what motivated you take that drink in the first place, AND there is no magical mathematical formula or someone keeping a highly accurate ledger on your drinking to where you can be like "well Im right at the threshold here, so I better put this drink down and stop for the night before IT takes over". Obviously it doesnt work that way, and even if did whose to say it would change anything anyway?

Grungehead

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I admit that I didn't read the entire thread before making this post. But after reading the first page and reading the OP's first couple of comments (one of those that they were an AA member) this quote from the Big Book immediately jumped into my head.

Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Edition, p.30 (bolding mine)

Smashed is a pretty strong word they used and for good reason I think. I have learned through experience that even after years of sobriety that it was indeed a delusion to think that I could drink again like a "normal" person. After 7 years of sobriety I went back out for 8 years and came close to death before that delusion was finally smashed. Go back and read the beginning of chapter 3 "More on Alcoholism" as it discusses this exact topic.

AnonSara

Sometimes I loathe the Big Book! LOL. How did those authors know so much about me? Scary. I know there's nothing "special" or different about my alcoholism. But that AV really is tricky and it wants me to believe things could be different for me if I just tried again.

NestWasEmpty

I believe that is the difference between an alcoholic and a Non- alcoholic . I 'am an Alcoholic and know just one or a couple will set me up for failure once more . When we start having clearer minds , with getting a grip on our lives we assume we can be like others that drink a few and stop .
I was clean for 8 months did this same thing . First one was hard to choke down - wondered why I missed it . Than came two just to see if Um it would taste better ? Most here will know the rest, I lost my whole 8 months battle
Finally with my 2 years sober my health is more important than to try to be a social drinker I will admit I miss the feeling . Here's a good way to look at it I broke up with that bad relation ship - it was hurtful in many ways . Good riddance - You never helped me anyway !

MelindaFlowers

Yep. And the hangover/feeling very "off" lasts for days. Days for two hours of relaxation? Or in the case of PAWS, months.

MelindaFlowers

Yes. The Big Book is an outstanding read, for everybody. It was almost creepy, like goosebumps on my arms how well they nailed every thought, rationalization, fantasy thinking, obsession I had with alcohol.