Sandy Marie

Thank you Peter,

I like to think spirituality is the mortar that holds my bricks together.
Sandy

Music

I haven't had alcohol in my home for years unless someone else brings it. And, they are welcome bring it in as long as when they leave they take it with them.

In your situation though, it's not up to your parents to be sympathetic. Thay don't have to. IT'S THEIR HOUSE!! Like you said, either put up with it or move out. You don't have the right to expect them to not drink and entertain just because you got caught.

Music

If you didn't appreciate flounder's reply, you certainly won't like this one either. Judging by what you've said so far, I'd say you're probably early 20 something. Still living at home, going to school....etc. I've got a news flash for you. You don't know enough about anything to be able to come here and demand of anyone that they say what you want to hear and nothing else. You say you've shut down on AA. Fine. AA has millions of people all over the world who are anonymous. How can anyone come up with a 5% figure when nobody really knows how many AAs are sober? AA is a perfect program. If someone doesn't make it in AA it's not because AA doesn't work. It's because the person doesn't want to work AA. I have one question for you erin. You say you're doing just fine without any of that God stuff or spirituality.....right? What the hell are you doing on a website asking people you can't see and don't know, how to stay sober? I'd say that's a sign of weakness, of not knowing what to do. That seems to me to be 180 degrees from Atheism, which by the way, is a religion. Most atheists believe they're their own God. They are the begining and the end. No power greater than man. If you believe that, then you have to believe that yor're the best it gets. How's that idea working for you.

AA is not religious. That's just your take on it. Doesn't make you right. Going to any type of recovery system with your attitude is just going to get you in more trouble. We get a lot of messages whispered to us on the way to hitting our bottom. Start listening and quit thinking and talking so much. You might learn something.

Don S

Well, obviously many of us would disagree with you about the origins of those principles being divine. And I don't believe any of those virtues are necessary simply to quit drinking or to find peace. Forgiveness in particular I believe to be a very Christian concept. I feel that acceptance is healthier than forgiveness. But they can all be useful towards having a more serene and happy life.

Erin, here's a link which helps you assess your own spiritual views, and it puts spiritual issues in the context of overall wellness:

http://www.student-health.buffalo.ed...piritual.shtml

Don S

Don S

Interesting question--considering it is AA's own figure!
There are many people for whom AA is not a perfect program. For most people, in my opinion, it is not perfect. For some people, in my opinion, it is harmful. For some people it is demonstrably very successful.

Seeking advice and input is a sign of weakness? Don't tell me--you never ask for directions, right?
Most atheists do NOT believe that they are their own god, Music. Where did you get that? As to your question: I gather erin has been sober for six months. That's how it's working so far.

Why would you want someone to quit thinking?
Don S

Music

There's difference between being six months sober and six months dry with red nuckles.
Will someone explain to me the difference between acceptance and forgiveness?
There's nothing wrong with thinking, assuming that what you're thinking with ain't broken.
Like's been said before Don. Everyone has an opinion of one sort or another. Doesn't make them right. Mine is just another opinion and I won't argue with you. However, I will state it just the same.....like it or not.
The statement was made that there was no God nor Higher Power. So, it stands to reason that all the answers are self-contained. Why look anywhere for direction. It wasn't until I started looking without that I became at peace within.
Thanks for defending erin Don. I guess maybe you're her/his new Higher Power. That takes care of that.

_erin

Music, AA has been defined as a religious organization by the Supreme Court, and the 5% success rate is AA's own statistic. It's interestingly the only statistic available on AA's success rate. I asked for people's takes on alcohol in their home, not whether need AA or religious BS. Why keep pressing the issue if I have already expressed my beliefs? I also never said I expect my parents to stop drinking, entertaining, etc. I asked how other people deal with the situation of having alcohol in the house. But the AA people just love their drama, even on the internet. I get people yelling at me here insinuating I'm being selfish towards my parents having alcohol. They are responsible adults who can make decisions for themselves. Neither of them has the problem of abusing alcohol, so I don't at all believe they should be denied the right to their drink. One more time so it is clear for you, music, I asked how other people deal with having alcohol in their homes (other than going to AA meetings).

I'm not one bit surprised people think AA is like a cult. Please just let the AA thing go, and stop the "better than thou" attitude. I don't know all the answers, but I know "higher power" and AA are not it for me.

Thanks for making a long, tough day even worse, music. Nice support you give. Why don't you just put the bottle in my hand?

usatoday

Now that is the saddest line I've seen in a long time. Erin, please don't react to this. You've been doing a great job so far. Your sobriety is too precious to throw it away on a post.

_erin

I won't throw it all away. I think it's obvious everyone who posts here has tough days, and to make them worse by implying someone is seflish, in denial, or stubborn is just plain mean and cruel. The AA people are just so anti-support for those who have rejected AA.

I couldn't leave to go get alcohol if I wanted to because I don't want to get in trouble with my curfew, and I don't want my parents angry at me for leaving the house so late (they are quite protective still). I've been keeping busy tonight with my Spanish homework. I think it's time for me to look for a different recover message board without any AA people.

Thanks for the support from a lot of you the short time I was here. Take care.

2dayzmuse

Erin good luck on your recovery. I hope you find a program that works for you. We all must take responsibility for our actions on a daily basis, whether we're an alcoholic or not. Learning to cope with life's difficulties without drinking is what all alcoholics strive for. Rethinking and learning recovery tools is what is needed to cope with our tough days. Realizing that, is a wonderful beginning to sobriety. It is your responsibility although, to except that it's your choice and your choice only, if you pick up again, not anybody elses fault. Blaming others is just an excuse to drink. There will always be something said or done that will make a person angry. Learning to cope is what we must do. I hope you find those coping skills and maybe we can teach one another how to deal with life's tough days. We all have them. I know I do and I'm still willing and able to learn new skills to kick the disease. Let's learn from one another. We all have something valuable to teach. Best of luck to you and my best regards.

Talia

2dayzmuse

I don't believe that to be true. The reality is, that there are only so many options and programs available out there. If you start rejecting and limiting your resources available, your narrowing your path to recovery. You have already eliminated any religious organizations, AA or AA related resources including message boards. I have to say, some flexibility would be beneficial to you. I really don't think anyone wants to lie or mislead you purposely. I think people are taking in consideration of the limitations you have set and are concerned of you continued sobriety alone. It is hard to maintain sobriety alone. Seek out all your other options and remember that if your an alcoholic, the likelihood of having an encounter with someone involved in AA is likely. You don't have to be a member or believe in the program, but being tolerant of other opinions is commendable. To each his own and good luck with your sobriety and finding the kind of program your looking for. To answer your question about alcohol in the house, I would find it a very tempting risk to take on without some sort of recovery tools. Take care and the best of luck to you. I commend you for your sober days, keep up the hard work.

Talia

Don S

Hi, erin,

It's not too surprising that this forum has a lot of AA folks, since it is an open forum on the subject of alcoholism and AA is the biggest group around! But SMART Recovery and LifeRing also have forum boards.

SMART Recovery:
http://smartrecovery.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x

LifeRing:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/lifering/start

Rational Recovery used to have public forums, but now their web site is on a subscription basis.

Don S

2dayzmuse

Thank you for posting the links to SMART Recovery and LifeRing Don. I hope they will be very useful to Erin. I too have looked into them as other options for myself. Any alternative resource may just be the suitable one for any individual. The main objective is to remain sober.

Don S

It's a big difference. Probably the simplest would be that you can accept a condition without forgiving the person whose behavior caused it.

No, it doesn't stand to reason. That's an either/or, black-and-white view of the world. Some answers might come from...other people! books! forums! counselors!

I kind of assume that when someone comes to a forum board and asks for advice, that's what they're looking for--answers from other people. I haven't yet found a forum where any of the better-known gods are answering inquiries (though some folks will tell me they've had those conversations....).

People who don't believe in a god-who-answers-prayers don't all assume they can do everything on their own. They may seek advice and support from groups of their peers, or from professionals, or (even better!) from both.

Indeed. I assume that when someone posts to a forum, asking questions, they are 'looking without'. Just not to god.

LOL! I'll try to keep my fees reasonable.

Don S

Don S

I haven't looked into LifeRing much, and I don't know if SOS or others have forums that aren't listed on their web sites. But you never know what is going to work to help avoid that first drink. All the recovery groups I know of that are abstinence based focus on that. Meanwhile, they provide information about what may be motivating your drinking, or about coping skills (which is obviously where spirituality fits in for many people), and other ways to achieve long-term sobriety.

A counselor could help develop specific goals, helping sort through the confusion and emotional distress that often attends the decision to change--providing focus. Your doctor can tell you where your present behavior is leading. A group of any kind --face-to-face, online, or a forum--can provide peer support. Your church, workplace, gym, or social organizations may provide an avenue for the lifestyle changes that successfully abstinent people usually adopt. SMART Recovery may give you some tools for dealing with emotional upsets; even RR's AVRT might give you a tool for disputing urges. Learning about the science of addiction and your body and brain can help us understand why it can be hard to quit.

Yours for ecumenical recovery,

Don s

Music

Thanks for straightening me out.

Music

erin,
If you walk into a room like a house on fire, someone's just naturally going to try to put you out. Don't come here with your attitude and expect nothing to be said. That's called "leading with your chin."

Secondly, I don't have to put the bottle in your hand. It never left. Typical drunk attitude to blame everyone else for having a crappy day. No responsibility on your part....right?

erin. With several billions of people in the world believing in "something." Are you the only one who's right?

Patsyd1

Hi Music,

I absolutely agree with you Music, there is a major difference between being 6 months sober and 6 months clean. The difference is between ones ears, with resentments, self-pity, selfishness, self-seeking, and wanting to blame others for what and where we are in our own lives. To keep it simple, its about being unable to take responsibility and be accountable for our own thinking, actions, words and deeds.... and ultimately how we FEEL.

For myself, the difference between acceptance and forgiveness is a simple one also. Not easy at all, but yes it is simple.

Acceptance is taking a good look at reality, what IS real, and then making a decision about what we can do about it for ourself. Its not about putting up with or just taking it, it is a simple acknowledgement of REALITY.

Forgiveness isn't about THEM at all. Forgiveness is a gift that I give to myself so that I may move forward with peace of mind, and a quiet heart.

Many people believe that forgiveness is letting the other person off the hook. The truth is that forgiveness is allowing ourselves off the hook of carrying around in our own heart the anger, resentment, and allowing others to control what I think, how I feel, and how I act.

Forgiveness is a wonderful tool in recovery, and has absolutely nothing to do with THEM at all.

Music, you are a tough cookie, and I love you for your honesty. Nope, you don't put sugar or sweetness on this illness that kills, and I am so grateful that you don't.

p.s. Erin, the only one who can put the bottle in your hand is YOU. To try to make anyone else responsible for the action of putting the bottle in your hand, is something that Alcoholics Anonymous helped me to learn slowly.... that they are simply just not that powerful.

Erin, we have a wonderful saying here in the halls of AA, and it goes like this. "Contempt, prior to investigation"

There are many things that I have read in this thread from those who have no understanding about what Alcoholics Anonymous is, and what it does or doesn't do. I know for myself that I came into the halls of AA with preconceived notions about it ALL. I kept coming, and I stayed to learn the truth.

Erin, whatever program that you choose for your recovery, will ultimately ask you to take full responsibility for and to be accountable for your own thinking, words, actions and deeds. Because there is no real sobriety without that.

Sobriety isn't just about putting the bottle down, its about getting honest with ourselves, and changing the only thing we can..... ourselves. Its about emotional sobriety, and taking care of the "inside stuff", because this illness doesn't have anything to do with the outside stuff at all.

Take care and I wish you all the good things that life has to offer you,

Patsy

Don S

C'mon, music, that is just silly.
Those billions don't all believe in the same thing, or even remotely similar things in many cases.
I'm guessing you don't think our concept of god should be based on a majority vote!
And 'billions' of people don't believe in anything resembling a god-who-answers-prayers.
Don S

Don S

There are many things that I have read in this thread from those who have no understanding about what Alcoholics Anonymous is, and what it does or doesn't do.
Hi, patsy,

That is an interesting comment. My investigation of AA has diminished my 'contempt' (though it was really more bafflement than contempt), but as you know I've never been to an AA meeting and don't plan to go. So if there's anything I've said in this thread that you feel indicates a lack of understanding of what it is or what it does or doesn't do, by all means explain!

For example, you use the term 'emotional sobriety', which I think anyone could relate to--spiritual issues or not. Emotional 'wellness' can lead to longterm sobriety, and you may have found that through AA. Behavioral approaches similarly focus on removing beliefs and emotional upsets which may underlie drinking. Then we are both reinforcing a key concept: quitting drinking isn't all that you need to do. But it's an affirmative message rather than telling someone they're a dry drunk, in denial, or have 'typical drunk attitude' (we can always count on Music for the unvarnished approach!).

Don S