Dont fit in to AA
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Not much else to add here, but I wanted to let you know that if you experience more pain than benefits, it's worth it to reconsider and identify other programs that might be a better fit. SMART and Women for Sobriety are both programs I have used in the past. WFS especially is one that is empowering and supportive for women.
Best wishes to you
I have some trauma relating to inappropriate exposure to certain situations when I was young and my mother was getting sober in AA. Was this a reflection on AA? No, but the fact that my mind has a hard time distinguishing the difference means that it is understandable that I have a whole set of special circumstances relating to my own experiences in the rooms as opposed to being the daughter of an old timer. My mother put me into situations that weren't appropriate when she was getting sober, her track record with boundaries isn't great, and my feelings about AA are all mixed up because of it. But rather than banging my head against a wall, I decided that I needed to find my own way.
As AA has been around for about two generations it makes sense that this issue is beginning to surface more and more with our generation. I was relieved when I first got here and found others like Jennie who identified with my special circumstances. To be an alcoholic in need of recovery myself, with a pre-existing history with a specific recovery method like AA is something that can't just be ignored if it is getting in your way.
There are a number of people here that I respect greatly who are thriving members of AA. In some ways I wish I was able to show up on the doorstep of AA as a newcomer when I needed it, but that wasn't the case. I had a therapist who dismissed my background, and continued to insist that there was only one way to get sober. Sadly, this created more stress for me because it reawakened the lectures I suffered from a mentally unstable yet sober mother that I endured growing up.
Thankfully, SR gave me a much broader perspective and assured me that there is no one way nor one right way to get sober. Heath 48, I do think that as we children of alcoholics who got sober in AA come of age, we are bringing a unique perspective to our own recovery. In some ways I feel I had an advantage because I really did believe in the progressive nature of alcoholism, and I would credit my upbringing under an old timer for that. But as I am sure you can understand, any childhood in an alcoholic household is complicated. Like Jennie, I was able to carve out sobriety that did not include AA. Perhaps if it had been my only option I would have been forced to wade through the trauma, but for me it was better to find alternative methods that allowed me to get sober without having to reopen that wound.
Autumn, I found that just by finding a few others here who had a similar perspective helped me feel less alone in having my background. And I understand having grown up in a household where I was told that there was only one right way, it was a big struggle for me to listen to myself and not my mother's voice from years ago. My mother is one of the few people in my family that I have not told I am sober, nor will I. I respect that her way worked for her, and I know she is limited in her ability to believe that there is any other way to get sober. So I don't go there with her, and I believe we are both better off for it.
Autumn, SR is a great resource to find support and there are many of us who utilize a whole host of measures. I am sober and I am really content and happy, and I am only that way because I decided to listen to my own heart and not some old voice in my head.
As AA has been around for about two generations it makes sense that this issue is beginning to surface more and more with our generation. I was relieved when I first got here and found others like Jennie who identified with my special circumstances. To be an alcoholic in need of recovery myself, with a pre-existing history with a specific recovery method like AA is something that can't just be ignored if it is getting in your way.
There are a number of people here that I respect greatly who are thriving members of AA. In some ways I wish I was able to show up on the doorstep of AA as a newcomer when I needed it, but that wasn't the case. I had a therapist who dismissed my background, and continued to insist that there was only one way to get sober. Sadly, this created more stress for me because it reawakened the lectures I suffered from a mentally unstable yet sober mother that I endured growing up.
Thankfully, SR gave me a much broader perspective and assured me that there is no one way nor one right way to get sober. Heath 48, I do think that as we children of alcoholics who got sober in AA come of age, we are bringing a unique perspective to our own recovery. In some ways I feel I had an advantage because I really did believe in the progressive nature of alcoholism, and I would credit my upbringing under an old timer for that. But as I am sure you can understand, any childhood in an alcoholic household is complicated. Like Jennie, I was able to carve out sobriety that did not include AA. Perhaps if it had been my only option I would have been forced to wade through the trauma, but for me it was better to find alternative methods that allowed me to get sober without having to reopen that wound.
Autumn, I found that just by finding a few others here who had a similar perspective helped me feel less alone in having my background. And I understand having grown up in a household where I was told that there was only one right way, it was a big struggle for me to listen to myself and not my mother's voice from years ago. My mother is one of the few people in my family that I have not told I am sober, nor will I. I respect that her way worked for her, and I know she is limited in her ability to believe that there is any other way to get sober. So I don't go there with her, and I believe we are both better off for it.
Autumn, SR is a great resource to find support and there are many of us who utilize a whole host of measures. I am sober and I am really content and happy, and I am only that way because I decided to listen to my own heart and not some old voice in my head.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 149
Greetings to the readers on this thread.
I just thought I would put this question out there ..although I know it has been done many times before. I am a mid life woman who is somewhat reserved, quiet, gentle. I have been struggling with AA for years and find it quite cliquey ..AA seems to have the opposite effect on me making me feel more isolated & even despairing after the meetings, as I don't seem to talk their lingo. In fact my cousin who has been in AA for 20 years said that she couldnt talk to me about sobriety as I dont talk the AA language!
My father was an AA old timer who didnt "walk his talk" staying emotionally abusive & unrepentent for his violent actions until his death. I think I have my low grade childhood PTSD activated from the meetings as I find the people there harsh (no offense to anyone)
I have been going to meetings on & off for 15 years and have not been able to connect there.( I do have friends out of the meetings) ..I just dont like hearing the drunk stories and the fact that some peoples whole lives never move on to a new identity from calling themselves an "alcoholic". In fact just thinking about it makes me feel stuck & hopeless. I see myself as having a genetic allergy to alcohol with an ocd disorder which keeps this problem alive.
I guess I feel weak , scared & brainwashed that AA really is the only way!!!
P.S I have been 13 stepped more than once and screamed at by a sponsor for not calling her on time so maybe that contributes to these feelings. I have not overdrunk for 3 years now & completely abstinent for 13 months .
I just thought I would put this question out there ..although I know it has been done many times before. I am a mid life woman who is somewhat reserved, quiet, gentle. I have been struggling with AA for years and find it quite cliquey ..AA seems to have the opposite effect on me making me feel more isolated & even despairing after the meetings, as I don't seem to talk their lingo. In fact my cousin who has been in AA for 20 years said that she couldnt talk to me about sobriety as I dont talk the AA language!
My father was an AA old timer who didnt "walk his talk" staying emotionally abusive & unrepentent for his violent actions until his death. I think I have my low grade childhood PTSD activated from the meetings as I find the people there harsh (no offense to anyone)
I have been going to meetings on & off for 15 years and have not been able to connect there.( I do have friends out of the meetings) ..I just dont like hearing the drunk stories and the fact that some peoples whole lives never move on to a new identity from calling themselves an "alcoholic". In fact just thinking about it makes me feel stuck & hopeless. I see myself as having a genetic allergy to alcohol with an ocd disorder which keeps this problem alive.
I guess I feel weak , scared & brainwashed that AA really is the only way!!!
P.S I have been 13 stepped more than once and screamed at by a sponsor for not calling her on time so maybe that contributes to these feelings. I have not overdrunk for 3 years now & completely abstinent for 13 months .
AA meetings are not the suggested recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Some of the AA fellowship members that talk AA language have transferred their addiction from alcohol to AA meetings. They work the AA fellowship and not the suggested recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Alano Clubs are full of these types.
As an AA fellowship member, I'm not a follower or a leader, I'm a solo affair. I'm not anymore concerned with whom I carry the recovery message to than who I don't. This approach to carrying the message is first person singular sharing which is suggested in the AA textbook, Chapter 7, Working With Others. The "WE's" and the "You's" and the "US's" i.e. giving advice usually doesn't work and sometimes it's toxic, as evidence by some AA fellowship meetings. These meetings c don't follow the suggestions in Chapter 7. Either others relate to me or they don't and I don't waste my time with those that don't relate.
Source
Alcoholism and Psychiatric Disorders
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
But triggered...I can see it.
The harshness of meetings and sponsors really messed with my head, leaving me feeling the same hopelessness and loneliness autumn4 described.
Some people need criticism, some people need encouragement.
I think the first group does great in AA. The second group does not.
That is nothing against AA or the people it works for. It is just that people have different histories and have different needs.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 480
Caused...probably not.
But triggered...I can see it.
The harshness of meetings and sponsors really messed with my head, leaving me feeling the same hopelessness and loneliness autumn4 described.
Some people need criticism, some people need encouragement.
I think the first group does great in AA. The second group does not.
That is nothing against AA or the people it works for. It is just that people have different histories and have different needs.
But triggered...I can see it.
The harshness of meetings and sponsors really messed with my head, leaving me feeling the same hopelessness and loneliness autumn4 described.
Some people need criticism, some people need encouragement.
I think the first group does great in AA. The second group does not.
That is nothing against AA or the people it works for. It is just that people have different histories and have different needs.
Exactly! We said
People need to know they have options and there ARE OTHER successful "recovery methods" out there. It could save someone's life. It saved mine. For so long I thought I was destined to die a drunk. I just didn't "fit in" with AA and the 12 step approach. I thought something was wrong with ME. Finally I realized it was quite the opposite.
AA has saved thousands of lives and that's amazing. Seriously amazing and I would encourage all newbies to at least check it out. Give it a chance...learn about it, but I think it's important for people to know there are other options out there (-:
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Hi.
When I got the desire to not drink anymore AA was the only place in town, no one had heard of the internet and AA had a very large following.
Yes there are other methods than AA today and being undisciplined I don’t know how they would fit me as I need human contact to help and be helped along with the reminder of what got me into AA. My concern is strongly related to people themselves and how their sobriety is managed regarding future support. People get other priorities, including AAers and put sobriety on the back burner without realizing it and too many eventually relapse and have much difficulty getting sober again.
People following the AA program are encouraged to continually follow the program of “self improvement” and helping others while attending meetings. To me this is a big part of recovery along with service by giving back. JMO
BE WELL
When I got the desire to not drink anymore AA was the only place in town, no one had heard of the internet and AA had a very large following.
Yes there are other methods than AA today and being undisciplined I don’t know how they would fit me as I need human contact to help and be helped along with the reminder of what got me into AA. My concern is strongly related to people themselves and how their sobriety is managed regarding future support. People get other priorities, including AAers and put sobriety on the back burner without realizing it and too many eventually relapse and have much difficulty getting sober again.
People following the AA program are encouraged to continually follow the program of “self improvement” and helping others while attending meetings. To me this is a big part of recovery along with service by giving back. JMO
BE WELL
My experience is that cliques are a human behavior, not an AA behavior. I've experienced them pretty much everywhere there is a large group of people involved. I refuse to behave that way OR let their behavior bother me (anymore). I will admit that cliquey behavior in AA (and at work) used to bother me a lot until I came to the realization that I'm not there to make friends, I'm there to save my ass (or in the case of work provide for myself). That doesn't mean I don't make friends, only that it's not my primary purpose.
I would say the single thing that helped me the most was finding a sponsor and working the steps. It gave me a whole new attitude about life, myself and others. Another thing that helped was getting involved with AA through commitments without expecting anything in return. It was amazing how much something as simple as helping to set up meetings or cleaning up afterwards made me feel like part of the group.
I would say the single thing that helped me the most was finding a sponsor and working the steps. It gave me a whole new attitude about life, myself and others. Another thing that helped was getting involved with AA through commitments without expecting anything in return. It was amazing how much something as simple as helping to set up meetings or cleaning up afterwards made me feel like part of the group.
I can't say I have ever been to a harsh meeting and my sponsor was anything but harsh. But I am aware there are a few groups and individuals who have developed their own style and don't necessarily follow the suggestions in the Big Book, or the traditions very well.
I think the worst thing that can happen to a newcomer is to be ignored. To say the least it is extremely rude. I travel a lot and get to visit a lot of groups for the first time, so I'm new to them. I have had experiences like Joe Nerv talked about.
I know I can't change a group, and would get no thanks for lecturing them on how to run their group, so I developed another tactic. I will stand around for five minutes to see if anyone is going to approach me. If they don't, I go right round the room and shake hands with every one present, then I will stand by the door and welcome any other arrivals. When I get the chance to share, I thank them for the wonderful welcome and explain how important that was to me at my first meeting, and hope they get the message.
Where I have stayed around and weeks I have been astonished that I have a knack for spotting newcomers, even though I don't know the group. I am very often the first person to welcome a newcomer to a group at which I am a visitor. I hope they pick up something from my example. And that is all I can do, try to be an example of how we are supposed to treat the newcomer.
Leaving the newcomer to find his own way can also have adverse consequences for a group. What he is taught by the kind of welcome he receives will have a long lasting effect on how he behaves in the group. But that is another story.
I think the worst thing that can happen to a newcomer is to be ignored. To say the least it is extremely rude. I travel a lot and get to visit a lot of groups for the first time, so I'm new to them. I have had experiences like Joe Nerv talked about.
I know I can't change a group, and would get no thanks for lecturing them on how to run their group, so I developed another tactic. I will stand around for five minutes to see if anyone is going to approach me. If they don't, I go right round the room and shake hands with every one present, then I will stand by the door and welcome any other arrivals. When I get the chance to share, I thank them for the wonderful welcome and explain how important that was to me at my first meeting, and hope they get the message.
Where I have stayed around and weeks I have been astonished that I have a knack for spotting newcomers, even though I don't know the group. I am very often the first person to welcome a newcomer to a group at which I am a visitor. I hope they pick up something from my example. And that is all I can do, try to be an example of how we are supposed to treat the newcomer.
Leaving the newcomer to find his own way can also have adverse consequences for a group. What he is taught by the kind of welcome he receives will have a long lasting effect on how he behaves in the group. But that is another story.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I have to admit I have not seen much cliquey behavior in AA. People may not be warm and I think the criticism of members gets too strong--but everyone gets treated the same.
We may not go to AA to make friends, but that does not mean we have to get tough with each other.
We may not go to AA to make friends, but that does not mean we have to get tough with each other.
Likewise Sober Jennie. it's not like I am going out of my way, it is just how I behave since taking the steps. More of a pleasure than anything.
I have to say that most of the unwelcoming groups I have got to know are not deliberately trying to keep people out, or make them feel unwelcome. They are pretty nice folks when I get to know them. It is just that they are a little self absorbed and it didn't occur to them that a newcomer needs to be made welcome. They just didn't think of it, no sinister motive at all, though it might indicate fellowship based sobriety rather than program based sobriety in the group.
I have to say that most of the unwelcoming groups I have got to know are not deliberately trying to keep people out, or make them feel unwelcome. They are pretty nice folks when I get to know them. It is just that they are a little self absorbed and it didn't occur to them that a newcomer needs to be made welcome. They just didn't think of it, no sinister motive at all, though it might indicate fellowship based sobriety rather than program based sobriety in the group.
So sorry to hear you've been struggling in the fellowship. Have you spoken to your sponsor about how you feel? Did step work not help these feelings at all?
I have noticed that all meetings have a different feel, and people are just people at the end of the day, so they all have their own ways about them.
I chose my sponsor for a number of reasons. Firstly she seemed a strong woman, with no inclination to gossip. Second she's kind of no-nonsense and doesn't let me get away with fooling myself. In meetings she seems quiet and stoic. One to one she's more chatty.
The meetings that I have chosen to make my regular meetings are loving, friendly and encouraging. The shares tend to be more recovery or steps focussed than pure drunkalogue (sometime specific memories or experiences are mentioned to illustrate a point, but not dwelt upon). Harshness and critical have not (thank goodness) been my own experiences at any meetings I've attended, and it saddens me to think that some people elsewhere have experienced this.
I can also see how meetings could act as a trigger for memories of your relationships in early childhood. My step-dad was an AAer and (although we got off to a rocky start) I grew to love him very much. Recently his sponsor has attended a few of my home group meetings, and it has stirred some happy memories of my stepdad. Lucky for me it's positive ones they're stirring. Sad and tricky for those with less positive memories that might get stirred up.
Is it worth chatting to your sponsor at all? Explaining about the memories that the group brings up for you, and the anxiety that is triggered by these? Or maybe trying some different meetings that may have a different feel and attitude? If not, maybe it is time to take a break and try some of the other approaches / support networks that are out there. AA will still be there if you decide you do want to come back.
I hope that you find some strength, hope and comfort to help you on your journey of sobriety, within the fellowship of AA, or elsewhere.
I have noticed that all meetings have a different feel, and people are just people at the end of the day, so they all have their own ways about them.
I chose my sponsor for a number of reasons. Firstly she seemed a strong woman, with no inclination to gossip. Second she's kind of no-nonsense and doesn't let me get away with fooling myself. In meetings she seems quiet and stoic. One to one she's more chatty.
The meetings that I have chosen to make my regular meetings are loving, friendly and encouraging. The shares tend to be more recovery or steps focussed than pure drunkalogue (sometime specific memories or experiences are mentioned to illustrate a point, but not dwelt upon). Harshness and critical have not (thank goodness) been my own experiences at any meetings I've attended, and it saddens me to think that some people elsewhere have experienced this.
I can also see how meetings could act as a trigger for memories of your relationships in early childhood. My step-dad was an AAer and (although we got off to a rocky start) I grew to love him very much. Recently his sponsor has attended a few of my home group meetings, and it has stirred some happy memories of my stepdad. Lucky for me it's positive ones they're stirring. Sad and tricky for those with less positive memories that might get stirred up.
Is it worth chatting to your sponsor at all? Explaining about the memories that the group brings up for you, and the anxiety that is triggered by these? Or maybe trying some different meetings that may have a different feel and attitude? If not, maybe it is time to take a break and try some of the other approaches / support networks that are out there. AA will still be there if you decide you do want to come back.
I hope that you find some strength, hope and comfort to help you on your journey of sobriety, within the fellowship of AA, or elsewhere.
I can relate to your feelings about AA. I've posted before that I've had a love/hate relationship with AA. I too feel it can be cliquey and when I've tried to connect in a new meeting, the "regulars" are not always very welcoming. I also understand that helping out is a big thing... making coffee, setting up chairs, and all of that. I have won some friends by bringing cookies to meetings. But being the introvert I am, I do find it diffiult and I don't think it should be. I've been scared away many times. Walked in, walked out. However, I still go to certain meetings but I'm very hesitant to try new ones.
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