bemyself

A much more succinct response than I could ever muster, Dee!

Indeed, were SR and our esteemed mods' work funded by the taxpayer (hypothetically, for the purpose of Courage's example).....well, I predict a mass nervous breakdown amongst the relevant bureaucrats who tried to calculate 'value for money'. That's actually the term we had to use on project applications. It used to drive wild even some of the government boffins I worked with. Utterly incompatible conceptual paradigms, when it comes to real people's lives.

courage2

LOL how about "value-added"?

Thanks bemyself, you obviously know the racket. And believe me, I know and understand the "one life helped" argument -- I used to make it to myself a lot of the time when I was deeper in the trenches than I am now. But I realized that many of the individual lives I affected then were able to take advantage of the opportunity my work afforded because of something intrinsic in them -- call it agency, resilience, whatever -- and that would have helped them find some other way if I hadn't been there personally.

I don't have a lot of desire now to be personally of service. Personal can't be trusted -- not when I'm the person. I'm more interested in whether it's remotely possible to change systems & structures (which totally suck in US education btw in case you didn't know), but that does cost $.

I'm waiting to see whether Robby's or anyone else here finds this engaging enough to comment on.

If so, & if you're interested, later I'll tell you the actual cost per head.

Dee74

I think it's entirely possible but that may be my leftie leaning wish fulfillment

And two points...I find you intensely trustworthy. stop being so down on yourself .

and just because I didn't answer the hypothetical doesn't mean I'm not interested.

D

Impurrfect

Robby and Melissa - YAY on all the good news!!

I love the house party idea. I don't post, often, but I always read and keep up.

Courage - I don't have a clue as to how to answer your question, though I know about the messed up school system (several Atlanta educators are in jail, and more heading that way for falsifying test scores). I do, however, see many options being proposed about how to do exactly what you are talking about, helping out the kids who would fall through the cracks in the system as it is.

I love this thread and everyone here. I can be having the worst day, but I come here and I get the feeling of when I'm at the beach - I'm just a small part of a big earth with a lot of people. My "problems" may seem huge to me, but in reality? Most of my stuff is whine-worthy but I'm watching people go through far more serious struggles and I am able to put things in perspective and learn from the best.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

bemyself

Gawd. 'Value added'....and how / whether to try to change the system of inequality. Sheesh. Don't get me started lol.
I'm actually on the same page as you, insofar as I too don't want to - and frankly, can't any longer - undertake the 'personal service' thing. But I do return to my own example of the project job (the most recent one fresh in my mind): it was very much part of the 'system'. That often depressed me, for all those reasons of thinking, gee, how can just a few of us (our particular agency was very small but ranged over a huge country region) make any real difference. Often, I just felt like a cog in a bureaucratic wheel, working for a not terribly good salary (much like teachers, both here and in the US).

Yet, there were often times when I'd stand back, survey the overall landscape of the work - and realise (this is crucial, IMO) that I was just one of lots of people doing what they could, for pay or not. Sometimes with 'results' that were evident, and many times not. But, as Dee too points out, what each of us IS doing (or did do in various spheres) IS worthwhile. Regardless of what the bean counters say. Hold onto that!

That's why I pointed to the example of SR itself. If you consider that your contribution here and that of all of us (mods, members, etc etc), this thread even with its quirkiness and supportiveness, is most likely truly helping someone....then, there's your answer, applicable to your work as well.

PS Robby: our apologies - if I might pre-empt Courage! - if this discussion has seemed to take an odd side-track. I thought it might at first, but realised as we chatted amongst ourselves (:-)) that in fact the heart of the issue resonates with the overall tenor of your thread. I'm sure we'll ramble on over to another part of the house shortly, as we do. x

bemyself

If I may....sorry to be a bore or a dog with a bone. But I believe that the above is very much resonant with a lot of the discussions in Robby's thread, this and the earlier ones. In the sense, that yes, most people might have some degree of 'agency, resilience, whatever' in them. Some more than others.

Yet, even those with larger stocks of such things - like Robby, a prime example if ever there was one - still very much appreciate and reflect upon it with gratitude when some individual or another reaches out to them. Particularly when those stocks of agency etc are feeling a bit depleted, or have been lost or drained out for a time [I sure know that feeling, many times].

Look again at Impurrfect's (Amy's) recent post to get a sense of what I mean.

Often, we remember certain people who've come into our lives, long after when they did. To believe we're each just The Little Prince, alone and atomised on his separate planet, is kinda fatal and a sure path to misery. Well, it often is for me. I come to this thread especially to remind me to draw upon the resilience and agency of others, and to offer what little I have to them in return. You were, and are, very important in those past kids' lives, like it or not :-)

courage2

Robby -- I hope you don't think that my question was hi-jacking. It I'd thought you would, I wouldn't have posted it here. I posted it because this is one of the places on this rather amazing forum where an intelligent conversation can take place about the value of life, one's own and for the other people we interact with.

And I posted my question here because in my experience, sometimes it's a relief to step mentally away from my personal pain or pleasure, and I thought it might amuse you and your friends, all of us here

fini

how much would you pay per kid to help them learn and probably help them want to learn? See this **is** about recovery, because it's about the question of whether my work -- which is 90% of my life -- has any worth.

courage2,
i can't see how $ relates to whether your work has worth. or value.
how much do taxpayers pay homemaking parents?

anyway, i understand that's not entirely what you mean

my own "worth" is tied to me feeling i've been of use.
now, there are some preferred ways i have to be of use, and if i were in the education field it would relate to inspiring people to WANT to learn.

the people who did that for me were and are people who are passionate about what they teach/do.

which is, too, i think, what we experience from Rob here. the passion put into living and being.

hm...i think i'm off topic and on topic. go figure.

bemyself

fini, beautifully summed up, as ever :-)

courage, yes and no about whether your post was 'hijacking' the thread: Yes, a little confusing, but only very initially. No, after I quickly realised it truly wasn't. And in the interstices, it's a momentarily a bit hard to know.

I suppose I felt a little bad that we were engaging 'off in another room' and I got rather caught up in it! Hence, my making a brief apology to people on behalf of both of us. Sorry for doing that.

Cow

Oh hello, Robot. I was at cabin for a week. I met squirrel that remind me of you. I riding my dirtbike and come up on him. Always, squirrel run away, but this squirrel have a big ass yellow flower in his mouth, and he not letting that treasure go. He furiously trying to shove it in his cheek before he run off.

Well I not gonna deprive squirrel of such a tasty delight, so I stops 10 feet in front of him and wait. Now I don’t know what go on in mind of squirrel, but I swears to God this squirrel somehow realize he actual have total control of this precarious situations.

So he pull blossom out his cheek and start eating it, with impunity. He go one tiny nibble at time. And I think his momma taught him chew each bite 30 time, cuz it. take. forever. When he fully satisfied, he nonchalantly scamper off.

I was very impress by his command of this situations and his intuitive assessment that the blossom was more important that some Goliath on a motorized beast.

Anyway, I thought of you then, and many time while I away.

Gilmer

Good morning, all!

Jeni26

Good morning all.

It's a really challenging time for me just now at work. I work in management in a special school and it's that time of year when it's all report writing and assessments, and due to staff absence I seem to be doing 3 people's work. Plus, there's the ongoing issue of my lovely hubby, who is really not so lovely when he gets drunk at the weekend, oh and plus it's Father's Day in England in a couple of weeks, and everywhere I look there are pictures of smiling Dads and cards, and adverts for gift ideas...grr. In the cupboard under the stairs there is the present I bought for my Dad last year. It's a sign for his garden shed where he used to spend a lot of time during the Summer months, and a mug for his tea. It's carefully wrapped in a bag with a blue ribbon. When he got his diagnosis this time last year I didnt give it to him, I knew he would never again spend hours in that shed. It's still there, I catch sight of it every time I go in there for the ironing board. I just can't face moving it. Not sure I ever will.

I was intrigued by your post courage. All my life I've worked in special education, for the most part that has been with children with severe learning difficulties and autism, but at Christmas I moved to work with kids with physical and neurolological impairments. I am totally dedicated to working with those kids who've been dealt a hard deck in life, and been fortunate to work alongside others who feel the same.

This is different to your job, I realise, and I'm in a different country, but the parallels are there. Many of the kids I work with now are ultra bright but who battle with society's preconceived ideas and prejudices. Their physical difficulties cause problems with communication and many use electronic devices to 'speak' which are slow and frustrating. They need additional help to sit exams and many are deemed unemployable. In a world which is preoccupied with worth being equated to exam results, they struggle with self-esteem. They do not have the same opportunities to develop independence or do that teenage rebellion thing that they should. As teachers we are judged on results and progress...many of our kids have degenerative physical conditions and they don't fit on a graph... It frustrates me no end when I'm told that a child's progress isn't good enough when they have had 6 months off for brain surgery!

Sorry...that ended up as a rant and I'm not even sure about the parallels to your story any more, sorry courage! 😊

Love to Rob and Melissa, and to all our fellow travellers 😘 xxx

Della1968

Good morning all. One more day Robby and Melissa will be home. Can't wait to hear how her trip was.

RobbyRobot

Hi Friends

Nice to see our thread is doing well and good with powerful shares of personal experiences and informed opinions. Everything so far posted is on topic for our kind of thread on life, so no worries, yeah. I do appreciate the careful concerns though, so thanks for that, you're all a wonderful bunch.

Me, I think we don't nearly put enough $ invested into our children's future. I won't hazard a guess. I hope courage lets us know about the relative values per child from her study asap.

I'll be back in a bit later today, just wanted to put to rest any concerns of thread hijackings.

courage2

OK -- it's interesting in and of itself that no one will try to put a $ on it.

We're costing about $1350 per student head. Less if you believe our effects on teachers' practices and on school culture a) exist and b) are sustainable.

As a basis of comparison for those not in US dollars, in NYC wealthy parents may spend more than $400k, more than 300 times that amount, per kid, to get their kids OUT of the public school system, before the cost of college. Middle class parents move out of the city or send kids to parochial school, at a cost of roughly $200k, more than 150 times the amount we spend.

RobbyRobot

So its been a tough week. Endlessly long. I'm physically tired and emotionally spent. I've been sleeping weird hours and not getting more than a few hours at a time. Mentally, I'm exhausted. As many of you guys and gals know, I'm successfully meeting my obligations and responsibilities with respect to my sobriety, my health, and my personal relationships. And of course, with my lovely wife and friend Melissa

Here is the thing though. I don't want to die from incurable cancer. Seems a simple enough statement and yet, this simple declaration is anything but simple in practice. I realized when I refused a medical procedure last week I likely face future similar situations when I will need to make the call on what does or does not work for me. This new kind of critical awareness fills me with a kind of deep sadness because inevitably all choices will bring me to death by cancer scenarios anyways. The starkness of my real-time reality is brilliantly obvious to me.

When I attempt to shut down my awareness to same, I increasingly become depressed and overwhelmed by my own fears and anger. When I accept the obvious I am overwhelmed by a personal sadness which seems to have no bottom.

You know, I'm of a mind to walk the path of sadness, of course. I'm full of tears as I write this post. I've tried so damn hard in my life to be happy and free, and I've been very successful, and it is perhaps not surprising I have yet one more unbelievable challenge yet to meet in my enjoyment of happiness in my life. I refuse to jump into the abyss of self-pity, self-hatred, and ignorance which calls to me so as to avoid the rawness of my sadness at losing my life.

Needless to say, I've had some suicidal ideations as I consider my choices moving forward. I'm not afraid to discuss any of this. In fact, not discussing it would itself be a huge problem in the making. I'm intent on meeting and doing f2f discussions with actual cancer survivors and those who like me have terminal cancers. My work with fellow alcoholics saved me, and although my salvation is of a different kind this time, I still have a real need to talk with those who are facing the same level of obligations and responsibilities to their own end-of-life scenarios.

Please understand I'm able to freely bring this conversation up in my thread. My talking about end-of-life challenges does not in anyway indicate I'm losing it, or I'm at my wits end, okay? I know for some this might seem kind of troublesome, and for others, something else. For me, it is a critical conversation that more and more will have real impact on how I best make my way over the next few months going into my chemotherapy.

Anyways, that's it for now. Just want you all to know I'm not a quitter, and I'm very well aware how my sobriety is now, same as 33 years ago, (34 on July 22) the single best decision I've ever made in my entire life. I'll never drink alcohol ever again. Its not about losing my sobriety. Its about how my sobriety creates responsibility to face the realities of my present life, okay?

Soberwolf

Totally agree with D

RobbyRobot

Amazing basis for comparison. It simply boggles my mind the breadth of the spectrum. Truly food for thought and hopefully technology will eventually equalize the differences as brick and mortar institutions are replaced by teaching technologies that are more effective and less costly per student. The next ten to twenty years will completely change the entire education system for the better, imo.

Jeni26

Robby

You are totally amazing, thank you for sharing all that you do. I hope you can find some f2f support with those walking the same path as you. I'm sure others could learn so much from you, I wish you could have met my Dad.

Love always,

Jen xxx

Gilmer

You have expressed your myriad of mindsets very well, Robby. I admire how you are always able to come back to "base camp" and describe to us what you see in all the other places.

Thank you for sharing with us.