post 118 - gottalife may be on to something...

last night before I retired I read several articles on brainwashing and brainwashing techniques. I wasn't going to bring it into this, but post 118 kind of relates to how aa can work for the absolute bottom of the barrel or desperate drunks. aa is nothing more than a brainwashing program. if you break it down and analyze it , that is exactly what it is. If you want to call it a spiritual awakening, fine.

LBrain, you, sir, are a trouble-maker.

Geez, I wish my brain could get washed! I have a filthy mind. :lmao:

huh? just providing what I believe to be a factual based comparison.

Just the Mad Mandolin player......

The King Has no clothes - I'm calling it

Yeah I totally agree. Post 119 on the other hand is a testament to the decision of the individual to make a deep commitment to a particular way of seeing and stick to it without fail.

Why is it that SnarkyBunny's threads always end up sounding like a mad hatter tea party? :lmao

I have spent thousands of hours "breaking down and analyzing" 12 step recovery and found that it is way... way more complicated and profound than any neophyte can possibly comprehend.

If you want to call it brainwashing - that is your opinion. However, when you express an opinion about an experience which you have never had, I very, very, very much look forward to ignoring it. You can speculate all you want about an experience prior to living it, but you can't call it "experience". In a court of law that is known as conjecture. :scorebad:

You are referring to the same recovery program with a 3-8% long term success rate?

Yes. 3 - 8% sounds about right.

That is why I called it "complicated and profound". 12 step recovery is an "experience" that must be lived. Unfortunately most people want to analyze it and understand it first. Something that serves as a red herring to getting results with it. :chairfall

Let's keep rule #4 in mind and keep the discussion to the OP's question please.

I never understand why people get in such a fuss about other people's recovery programs, UNLESS there's a serious cost or willful chicanery.

I mean, in the peer-support based programs, you can always just walk away, right? In fact, people do, all the time, at no particular consequence to themselves. No one stalks them or hounds them, right? And there's no bait-and-switch (sorry Dee for using the phrase before, it was poor word choice then) involved -- no one says, "Ha! You thought you were walking in the door of a church basement for recovery, but here's the contract, sign away all your possessions!"

So for free programs, why does anyone care whether they're helpful for other people? I'm only interested in whether they're helpful for me. And I sure as hell don't expect any program to recover me or get me sober. That's my business.

It's like borrowing a book from the library. At worst, I'm only wasting my time.

It seems to me that the issue is only important if I'm buying the book.

What am I missing here?

I agree generally, but many people felt forced into a particular program that did not fit, for example by counselors in treatment programs. When I was struggling to rack up even a few days at a time, I was angry that I felt compelled to participate in a program that was counter to some of my core beliefs, and angry that I was being told essentially, this is the only way out. It wasn't the only way out, fortunately. :) But that anger kept burning for a long time.

Everyone is different, and I think what you are missing is that you just need to accept that. Help where you can, and Live and let live so they say.

When you think about it in retrospect, how much of the anger was due to something the program you were sent to did to you, how much was due to being told to do something you didn't agree with (not I think the fault of a particular program), and how much of it was your alcoholism looking for a fight?

Am I not doing that? I'm sooo confused again! Why do people get so steamed up when a person asks questions? I'm not poking into anyone's sex life.

If I can rephrase for clarity now and get rid of extraneous stuff, here's all I was asking:

• Does anyone know of any non-anecdotal evidence that inpatient rehab is more successful than free peer support-based programs for helping alcoholics/addicts in general achieve sobriety for a long term (say, 1 year)?
• Do people think there any particular kinds of addiction or addicts who really need or are likely to profit inpatient rehab, and why? When is inpatient the best option?

Honestly, do y'all think I'm just trying to be provocative?

'cause I don't have to try. ;)

Nah, seriously, I'm not trying. I mean, I'm trying not to be. :wavey:

Some go willing some have willingness thrust upon them = me.
When I started attending groups they told me I did not have to drink ever again. I heard - I do not get to drink ever again.

I was told in the first year don't make any radical changes - relationships, job, moving, finances etc......

Then I was told in order to stay sober I would have to change everything.

There were stupid sayings, weird acronyms, strange prayers and utterings.

Anger reached a new level for me. I am not sure I was ever as angry when I was drunk as I have been a few times in this my first year of sobriety. Friends tell me it's healing and recovery. I am still angry, and that really aggravates me.

I still like a good fight.........truth be told many of us here do. It's easy to put on our group or SR face. The tough part is outside in the real world. Dealing with the jerk at the bank or the clerk at the store.

C2 you are as real as it gets and I greatly respect that.........

keep coming back@!

That should be "profit from". I just keep digging myself deeper, don't I?

Thanks for this. I'm angry too about a helluva lot of things. It's going to take a while for me to learn restraint of my anger because I'm only learning to express it now.

Would you believe that in the last 24 hours I directly & stone sober told my husband I wanted him to do something for the first time in 32 years? I mean, he & I are floored! 32 years of not expressing emotion or desire. Unless I was really loaded. And I haven't gotten loaded in front of him in more than a decade.

Please sir, surreal.

Honestly? Yes.