Refreshment and the theory of caffeine and alcoholism in a nutshell
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 638
Refreshment and the theory of caffeine and alcoholism in a nutshell
Okay...
Let me start this by saying that for long, with more study I've started to be the catalyst for me starting to drink and unable to end the cycle was actually made mean subtleties of caffeine addiction, aka.caffeinenism. You will find this diagnosis and defition in the DSV-IV.
The basic gist the the theory is that caffeine accumulates in the body, and doesn't get excreted into the urine after a few hours, like is commonly believed and thought. This is because... the human kidney, is not able to take in the caffeine molecyle and it has to be broken down by the liver into various methylic uric acids...
Here we have the metabolic table, if you can understand it:
KEGG PATHWAY: Caffeine metabolism - Homo sapiens (human)
And so there. The problem with this accumulation is that detoxing from caffeine is really slow in practise, and the many metabolites can have similar effects to the nervous system as caffeine itself. Such as aggression, limited perception, memory problems, gaps and depersonalization, personality problems, depressing as a withdrawal effect (clearly documented this) and a host of other mental ailments.
The thing with alcohol and some substances is, according to theory, that they cause a melting of the shards in stacked caffeine in the body, and that caffeine then enters the bloodstream, causing agitation, restlessness and often subtle psychotic effects (see APA, american psychiatric association published studies on this if in doubt, it is well documented and beyond doubt real thus).
So it gets a bit more complex after that and I'm not willing to go into greater detail with this. But this could give you folks something to think about... no one is forced to believe anything presented here but I'd appreciate openmindedness for the scientific study that has been conducted on these manners. They are after all exact, undeniable, and most of the studies are actually performed well, so they don't get the questionable-status just like that.
I'd like to talk more about this if you folks were interested in hearing or reading more about it. But I'd like you still to consider the idea, that we are dealing with chemistry here, and while the av is some kind of mechanism of the psyche, brain, nerves and body together... there are others factors to it that may more accurate explain it. And that is what a true seeker of valuable science should strive for in my opinion.
A side note. If it truly were possible to back to drinking normally let's say once or twice a year without problems or damage to the human organs, especially the brain, if this were to be possible, I'd sure like to know how. Not that drinking is health or necessary, but still, you get the point.
Just something I wanted to summarize and clarify a bit.
Let me start this by saying that for long, with more study I've started to be the catalyst for me starting to drink and unable to end the cycle was actually made mean subtleties of caffeine addiction, aka.caffeinenism. You will find this diagnosis and defition in the DSV-IV.
The basic gist the the theory is that caffeine accumulates in the body, and doesn't get excreted into the urine after a few hours, like is commonly believed and thought. This is because... the human kidney, is not able to take in the caffeine molecyle and it has to be broken down by the liver into various methylic uric acids...
Here we have the metabolic table, if you can understand it:
KEGG PATHWAY: Caffeine metabolism - Homo sapiens (human)
And so there. The problem with this accumulation is that detoxing from caffeine is really slow in practise, and the many metabolites can have similar effects to the nervous system as caffeine itself. Such as aggression, limited perception, memory problems, gaps and depersonalization, personality problems, depressing as a withdrawal effect (clearly documented this) and a host of other mental ailments.
The thing with alcohol and some substances is, according to theory, that they cause a melting of the shards in stacked caffeine in the body, and that caffeine then enters the bloodstream, causing agitation, restlessness and often subtle psychotic effects (see APA, american psychiatric association published studies on this if in doubt, it is well documented and beyond doubt real thus).
So it gets a bit more complex after that and I'm not willing to go into greater detail with this. But this could give you folks something to think about... no one is forced to believe anything presented here but I'd appreciate openmindedness for the scientific study that has been conducted on these manners. They are after all exact, undeniable, and most of the studies are actually performed well, so they don't get the questionable-status just like that.
I'd like to talk more about this if you folks were interested in hearing or reading more about it. But I'd like you still to consider the idea, that we are dealing with chemistry here, and while the av is some kind of mechanism of the psyche, brain, nerves and body together... there are others factors to it that may more accurate explain it. And that is what a true seeker of valuable science should strive for in my opinion.
A side note. If it truly were possible to back to drinking normally let's say once or twice a year without problems or damage to the human organs, especially the brain, if this were to be possible, I'd sure like to know how. Not that drinking is health or necessary, but still, you get the point.
Just something I wanted to summarize and clarify a bit.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Let us know when you have the white paper work written up and peer reviewed.
PS... Why would you post this stuff on a website called "sober recovery " ?
Wouldn't a site like Science Daily, be more appropriate?
PS... Why would you post this stuff on a website called "sober recovery " ?
Wouldn't a site like Science Daily, be more appropriate?
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Drinking wasn't really my problem, it was the drunk part that was the real stickler. It took a long time for me to see that the pleasure of being drunk came with too high a price. Organ damage was a very distant concern, the loss of my family, employ-ability, and my sanity were/are far more immediate concerns.
...holds the key
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,065
Unix....I truly fear for you right now, my friend.
If you truly believe that drinking is unnecessary then WHY are you trying so hard to find a way to justify your drinking?!?! Please give that some serious thought.
If you truly believe that drinking is unnecessary then WHY are you trying so hard to find a way to justify your drinking?!?! Please give that some serious thought.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 984
Unix, I hope you are OK. I don't think your post makes much sense and I read it twice over. This reminds me of some of the long emails I'd draft while drunk and then read the next day and be happy I hadn't sent it out.
It seems to me as though you are either blaming caffeine for your drinking or trying to use this post to prove that you can drink in moderation when caffeine isn't involved. Either way, I think you need to focus more on what you can do to get sober and less about the scientific underpinnings of caffeine.
It seems to me as though you are either blaming caffeine for your drinking or trying to use this post to prove that you can drink in moderation when caffeine isn't involved. Either way, I think you need to focus more on what you can do to get sober and less about the scientific underpinnings of caffeine.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 1,926
I have NEVER been a caffeine drinker and I am still an alcoholic.
You do realize this website is called SoberRecovery.com not DrinkingModerately.com, right?
Hang in there and keep coming back! You will be done drinking when you are DONE making excuses...when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Good luck to you...I really mean that!
You do realize this website is called SoberRecovery.com not DrinkingModerately.com, right?
Hang in there and keep coming back! You will be done drinking when you are DONE making excuses...when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Good luck to you...I really mean that!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 1,926
Originally Posted by countrygirl2014 
Drinking with no ill effects on mind, spirit, or body? I wouldn't want it. Are you trying to discover a way to drink? Please say no. Jennifer
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
Well if the theory is correct, I will gladly give up alcohol so that I can continue to drink coffee and tea 
I love coffee far too much, and I know I'll never be arrested for driving while caffeinated, and I'll never be fired for drinking coffee on the job.
I love coffee far too much, and I know I'll never be arrested for driving while caffeinated, and I'll never be fired for drinking coffee on the job.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
The Romans did not consume caffeine but alcoholism was rampant in the Empire.
Quite a few of the emperors overindulged and Vitellius was a notorious drunk usually 'flushed with alcohol" according to Suetonius.
Emperor Nero kicked his pregnant wife Sabina Poppaea in the stomach and killed her in a blackout according to Tacitus.
Neither of them consumed caffeine.
Quite a few of the emperors overindulged and Vitellius was a notorious drunk usually 'flushed with alcohol" according to Suetonius.
Emperor Nero kicked his pregnant wife Sabina Poppaea in the stomach and killed her in a blackout according to Tacitus.
Neither of them consumed caffeine.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 425
The only comments I can make on this is that caffeine or coffee led me back to alcohol... I no longer touch cafe & only drink decaf tea.. I think for some people there is a link... Myself being one of them!!!!
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 772
Unix...the first step has 3 parts. 1. Honesty 2. Surrender 3. Acceptance
You need to learn to accept the fact that you can't drink and it will probably make your life much easier. No more brainstorming on how you can socially drink because that day will neverrrrrrrrrrr happen. If only curing alcoholism was something as easy as stopping caffeine lol. I'll tell you what caffeine has nothing to do with it!
I really hope these posts aren't giving other newcomers false hope about overcoming there drinking because ONCE YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC YOU WILL NEVER GO BACK TO NORMAL DRINKING. ONCE AN ALCOHOLIC, ALWAYS AN ALCOHOLIC.
Acceptance.
Your alcoholic voice got problems.
You need to learn to accept the fact that you can't drink and it will probably make your life much easier. No more brainstorming on how you can socially drink because that day will neverrrrrrrrrrr happen. If only curing alcoholism was something as easy as stopping caffeine lol. I'll tell you what caffeine has nothing to do with it!
I really hope these posts aren't giving other newcomers false hope about overcoming there drinking because ONCE YOU ARE AN ALCOHOLIC YOU WILL NEVER GO BACK TO NORMAL DRINKING. ONCE AN ALCOHOLIC, ALWAYS AN ALCOHOLIC.
Acceptance.
Your alcoholic voice got problems.
New Life Sober
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 777
Wow poor unix!! I rather drink caffeine then drinking. I dont get hangovers when I drink coffee. Come back tomorrow when u are awake and read this. This could be your open eye to be sober and work on yourself and not worry about what caffeine does. Hope u are getting some rest see u soon..
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Spending so much time on studying 'stuff' is letting the alcohol win, whether you are drinking or not. At the end of the day if you aren't drinking alcohol then it can't interact with caffeine. 10 seconds thinking about it, rest of the time concentrating on life.
Sorry to be blunt but this sounds like a way to justify carrying on drinking and blaming something else rather than taking on the responsibility of the decision to drink.
Sorry to be blunt but this sounds like a way to justify carrying on drinking and blaming something else rather than taking on the responsibility of the decision to drink.
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