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Love on the verge of ... nothing?

Old 03-14-2015, 07:52 PM
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I just want to say I haven't experienced this yet (and it will be devastating when I do) but feel for you and know you will handle this with grace.
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:36 PM
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My parents are aged 83 and 84 and in gradual health decline to a point that my sister and I have looked into transitioning them into an appropriate home to meet their medical needs and safety. Hard choices indeed. Mom and Dad are of course fearful of what is happening. To be honest, I am too, although my fears are for my parents wellness and quality of life.

It can feel helpless and frustrating when helping with problem solving the many personal challenges of my parents winter years. They have not well prepared themselves, and so they feel disappointed in themselves.

haennie, from this thread and some earlier ones, it looks very much like you're already being very loving and helpful to your father. Sometimes all we can do against certain unchangeable circumstance (like logistics) is responsibly embrace the suffering of others without adding our own onto theirs, and in this we help dignify and support their own efforts to discover endurance for dealing with what is happening.

Please be kind and mindful of your own responsibilities to yourself even as you fulfil and honor your father's love for you, and yours for him. Not that I'm saying you're not already of course. Be easy on yourself as best you can for whatever can't be readily improved for your father's circumstances.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:05 PM
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I'm going through the same thing with my mother right now. Health issues and old age eventually caught up with her.

She lived in a big house all by herself and had to call 911 on several occasions due to falling and other health issues. It was really a scary and unsafe situation.

My siblings and I could've never been able to let her live at one of our houses due to her medical needs and each of us working full time and trying to keep our own families together.

We really tried hard to convince her to move into an assisted living home or independent living where the floor always has staff monitoring the residents. She refused and was scared to death of these places and was very stubborn and only wanted to live in her own house.

It got to the point where living on her own in that big house wasn't possible anymore and we finally (twisted her arm) said she must go into one of these assisted living homes.

And it turns out this is the best thing that ever happened to her and she's happy she did it!

The first one she tried she wasn't crazy about. Then we got her a better one and it's like the perfect spot for her. She has her own apartment. Meals are served in the cafeteria three times a day. They have transportation services for the residents to go grocery shopping and other events as a group....Exercise sessions.

The good part she's never too alone as there's always people there yet she has her own privacy in her own apartment. And caretaking staff is always on the floor if needed.

You didn't mention your father's living situation. But if he's living on his own while aging and having these health issues, I would suggest looking into an assisted living/independent living home where there's staff always there to help.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by haennie View Post
He has a wonderful survival instinct still, though. Has taken everyone around him in, to help: the postman, the guy who delivers his daily meals, his old friend to drive him to the supermarket weekly and pick him up with a shopping bag, his doctors apparently saying this is old age and nothing else, and his only daughter to transfer his love of "everything" to."
Haennie, this is so hard. I really feel for you. I've been thru this with both parents and one grandmother and it is always hard, and there are no easy answers, unfortunately.

I think it's good that he's already brought in others around him to help in the areas he feels he needs help. Perhaps he might be open to someone coming in a couple times a week to do light housekeeping? If there's someone local that he would be comfortable having in his home, that might be a good compromise.

Also, does he have anyone who might be able to go with him to doctor appointments? It's really easy to miss things when talking to a doctor by yourself, and having an extra set of ears is good idea for everyone with health problems, not just the elderly. Maybe the same friend that takes him shopping?

My thoughts are with you and father.
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Old 03-15-2015, 06:11 AM
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I've never thought that the OP I put out would result in the quantity and quality of responses I'm seeing. Seriously. It's reinforced my belief in friendship, which wasn't a shaky ground to start with, but now even stronger
Thank you all, very much

In terms of maybe going there to be with my dad right now - I did that sort of thing before, a few times. No problem financially, but I just don't see how that might improve anything at this point. We've been through so much together, including the endless analysis of our relationship, which I'm continuing now in pretty hardcore ways in therapy. Of course I could be with/for him today or tomorrow, and I would not resist this, it's just that we have already done this several times before, and my being right there only brings the same things to him.

I have a job interview in Asia (I've never been to that part of the world!) I'm seriously stressing about, in ~10 days. I will spend 2 days with my dad before the interview, and a week after. I'll see the some of the "devastation" of his garden (it's my property now, but I give my dad 100% control in whatever he wants to do with it).

The thing is, I just don't think that any further direct assistance on my part (more than what I do and described) could make this easier for my father. Yes I could be there and maybe hold him on his death bed, but the sacrifices involved in being able to do this would seriously interfere with my own life, and I don't think he would want that to happen. Maybe egotistic. I don't know.

Thank you so much for the feedback and support, friends I think soberwolf mentioned a couple days ago the death of Terry Pratchett -- someone I admired. Similarly, Sherwin Nuland, a brilliant doctor and author, just passed a few days ago. His book How We Die is something I would recommend to anyone interested in the topic.

Thanks everyone, again
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:34 AM
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haennie, I will try to, and hope I say this right. Forgive me if I don't.

Sometimes, it's not the outcome of actions that matter. It's the action. In this case it isn't the outcome of being with your father. It's being with your father.
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Old 03-15-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by trachemys View Post
haennie, I will try to, and hope I say this right. Forgive me if I don't.

Sometimes, it's not the outcome of actions that matter. It's the action. In this case it isn't the outcome of being with your father. It's being with your father.
Well Trach, haennie can easily speak for herself of course. For me though, I find your implied reasoning offensive. I'm curious how you come to determine in this case how the outcome is less important? Or perhaps you're meaning something I'm not getting?
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Old 03-15-2015, 12:44 PM
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I'm sorry, and thank you Robby for pointing out my stupidity.

It's not being with your father. It's being without your father.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:14 PM
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It was not offensive to me, but thank you, Robby I know, Trach, that you meant it well, it is true that our presence matters... I seriously think about these things each time I need to make such a decision, think many times before I decide. I also considered moving there to be with him for a while. The thing is, I'm much less flexible to do whatever I want spontaneously at this point in my life, have responsibilities and others depending on me in different places. Of course I could say that I prioritize my dad no matter what, and I did several times, but doing it always in spontaneous ways also cuts into my own life and into the other things (and people) that matter to me a lot, so it's not exactly simple. It's always very difficult for me to make these decisions, and I've learned to seek help with them when they are due, in order to not be overly biased and subjective, but the truth is that these decisions need to involve the consideration of many factors for me. I need to split my attention between a few things, however I dislike splitting it that way.

I think I'll revisit the idea of hiring someone to care for my dad though, I will discuss it with him when we see each-other. He seems very resistant to it, but he was also resistant to asking others to help him initially... and now he likes the help. I easily get this because we are very similar this way, always want to be self-sufficient and it's extremely hard to give up this autonomy. But sometimes it works against us, it did also for me, for example when I hesitated for years to seek help about my alcoholism and admit it was far beyond my control. I guess old age is similar in some ways, and yet I would never force myself or anything on anyone, I just can't, absolutely out of character for me. I will discuss it with him again, in a different way, I learned a lot from some of the responses you guys gave me here. I think a lot of the resistance is coming from habit and especially people at his age are not easily open to drastic lifestyle changes, even if they would be helpful, as it was pointed out earlier on this thread. But whatever is the issue, I don't think I would ever push him to go somewhere or do something he does not want, I really think that for someone at his age, possibly living a few days, weeks, or even perhaps a few months longer is simply just irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. And while I'm definitely quite attached to him, I would never let this attachment get in the way of his freedom to decide how he wants to live... or die.

Thank you again, everyone, for all the good advice and wonderful support, I can't express it properly how much I appreciate it.
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:15 PM
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((Haennie))

I lost my mother 10 years ago to cancer, and it was quite different experience from what you are going through now.

So, I'm afraid I don't have much advice to add up.

But what I would really like to tell you - please, don't forget to take care of yourself too.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:54 PM
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Feel like uptading

Hi, friends.

I would like to update this thread/progression of mine, and please don't feel any force to respond apart from what you may feel useful. Well, that's pretty much anything you may feel interesting, in my book right now

I am taking off for that trip I alluded to earlier on this thread, tomorrow. Will spend time with my dad. I have been looking for "nurses" for him ever since, and found two good possibilities: a woman that lives across from him and their extended families lived there since I was born; this is a religious woman who's been finding her main purpose of life in helping people in the neighborhood.

The other one is a woman who has been my dad's house cleaner for a few years now.

Finally, a man, much like myself and himself in personality, but different from me in age (he's 70's). This is a man who's still enthusiastic about life, he went to explore whatever he was interested in... including a beautiful property now in his retirement, a garden which was designed by my father.

Anyhow, taking off tomorrow early morning I'm also feeling very sad about my father.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:42 PM
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I have not had a thought of drinking, for a long time, until here and now. I know it's linked with all the *** I described. But I have this urge again. I'm scheduled to leave to Europe tomorrow at 7:30am, and then two days later to Asia.

Please help
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:30 PM
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Awww, Haennie. Huge hugs. Make sure you have all the comforts you need for your flight tomorrow. And excellent headphones. Actually, the airports always have my favorites. I can let you know what kind.

My second year of undergrad I took a "History of US immigration" course that was taught by the most gentle elderly professor and his assistant, a nurse. He told endless stories of his native Czechoslovakia, Prague Spring, a visiting professorship and the decision to remain in the U.S. permanently. This inspired me to spend Spring Break with my own grandparents.

With every question I asked, my grandmother spent hours answering and laughing. At times deeply contemplative, sometimes tearful. I listened...totally engrossed. My grandmother was generally not a 'talker' as I had known her in life up until this visit when she seemed able to talk endlessly. Everything was a revelation. We were both happy. All I did was listen. As it happens, this was the last time we were together in this lifetime.

When choosing a caregiver, I would wonder if your dad needs to tell his story and have someone bear witness at this point. You mentioned in another Thread that he has a very wide social network. What offers him the most peace? Talking, listening, silence, surprise? How receptive is the caregiver to your father's varying emotional needs, revelations, fears. How gentle is s/he?

Thinking of you. Are you afraid of something?
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Verte View Post
Are you afraid of something?
No, not at all Just over security at the US side.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:50 PM
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This song came to mind just about instantly. John Vanderslice Time Travel is Lonely. Only including this because you wrote "anything you may feel interesting." Thats like open-mic or karaoke. I misunderstood that you were already traveling at this point. May you have an abundance of legroom.

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Old 03-18-2015, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by haennie View Post
I have not had a thought of drinking, for a long time, until here and now. I know it's linked with all the *** I described. But I have this urge again. I'm scheduled to leave to Europe tomorrow at 7:30am, and then two days later to Asia.

Please help
You're going to be fine, haennie. You've come too far to lose your grip on sobriety now. You're probably nervous, and for good reason. You've taught me a lot as far as strategies to maintain sobriety. You have the tools already, and you know how to use them.

I wish you the very best on your trip, and best wishes to your father, as well. You'll keep us updated on everything, I hope. (??)
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:21 AM
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Thanks, Verte and and GMO I got through the drinking urge, unscratched, as many times before during early sobriety. Thanks again.

Verte, those are excellent points. I'll get back to them later.

Right now, what's on my mind is that I started psychoanalysis a few weeks ago, and I'm afraid I won't be able to continue during this trip. I honestly think it's one of the best things I've ever done to myself. Maybe to the analyst as well But we plan to continue as "normal" over Skype.

I'm feeling like this song about my upcoming job interview in Asia, soon after my layover in Europe.

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Old 03-19-2015, 01:29 AM
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And here continues:


My current supervisor left me yesterday saying that if he had ever seen someone with unconventional and unusually interesting thought processes, it's me, and I should just let it free during my interview, because I got all my previous jobs probably heavily influenced by the same feature. He's the head of an institution I work for, although not directly. He was thrilled when I first came up with this idea about a connection between us and that other institute in Singapore. We'll see.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:27 PM
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I don't have anything really to add as I have no experience in this matter, but reading this thread really got me out of my own head and struck up a lot of emotions, mainly fear of the future with my own parents. A lot to go through at once! Glad you made it through your urge to drink.

You seem to have such strength, determination, and radiance . I wish you the best of luck with everything upcoming!
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:51 PM
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I think you're a talented, smart woman -- and a loving, devoted daughter. I remember once you wrote that your father encouraged your curiosity and interest in new places. He sounds like a dad that saw a lot in you and wanted you to be able to live your life as fully as possible.

Be well, traveling friend. Your dad knows you love him greatly.
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