seek

Hi There!

I am attempting to not judge alcoholics who "don't learn from experience," but I'm having a hard time understanding (and I "get" that I will never truly understand, as I do not have the "disease" of alcoholism).

I am confused by the following:

1) In my experience, getting really super drunk creates a horrible hangover. I can understand doing this a few times until it clicks that "feeling bad was caused by drinking too much." I can't understand why anyone would "agree" on some level to live in so much agony. Does it register that the miserable hangover is caused by the booze or is the entire process unconscious? I would love to hear actual experiences of people who have lived like this for years.
2) When you begin to have negative consequences (lose your stuff, your job, your relationships) what do you say to yourself? And when you don't stop and things keep getting worse, what are you thinking?
3) If you have been in and out of detoxes and rehabs, what is your thinking each time you land there again (just before you decide to "go out" again)? What is your life philosophy at that point?

I am struggling to understand, as I said, and know I never really will be able to, but perhaps I might be able to have compassion even without understanding instead of harsh judgment . . . that is what I am shooting for. From where I stand now, I just think "they know what they are doing and they are making these choices knowing what the consequences are" - and then I wonder about "not learning from experience" and then I start to judge. Trying to gain compassion.

Thanks for any insights into the internal processes and thinking that goes on.

Gargery

1) The booze makes the bad symptoms of the hangover go away or become less apparent, hence the desire to drink earlier and earlier in the day. For me, the booze was both the cause of and the relief for horrible physical ailments. For example, I could not use use silverware because of shaking hands without three ounces of whiskey, hence the decision to drink before lunch seemed rational as well as pleasant and normal.

2) I never lost much to alcoholism. even when I was blind drunk all the time, I was good at not really screwing things up, with the exception of my health: broken bones etc.

zjw

I'd get drunk get a horrible hang over swear not to do it again then I'd drink again. but after 1 oor 2 drinks forget it I've lost control over how many I an have or not have. I simply do not stop I have 0 self control at this point. Over time I just accepted this as a way of life. It became normal for me. So yeah I guess ya start off with good intentions o h I wont drink so much and yeah sometimes you think oh I better keep this in check or be good tonight. But it doesn't matter once 1 goes down the hatch its all over.

Loosing stuff just makes it worse it would make me depressed and wala another excuse to drink. The ole maybe if I quit drinking this would get better didn't get on my radar much if at all. Once in a blue moon I'd think oh well if I quit this or that might be better but life was so crummy all I had to make me feel better was a drink.

I never made it to rehab or anything thankfully.

If you don't understand it I guess take peoples responses at face value and try not to read into them too much. I know when I try to understand irrational behaivior I figure why try to make sense out of irrational stuff there is no sense to make. It simply is what it is.

PaperDolls

There will always be things about this disease that are confusing.

The questions you ask remind me of questions I was asked during active drinking.
"Why don't you just drink 3 beers tonight?"
"Just don't drink so much .... "
"Once you get a buzz, why don't you just stop?"
"What are you thinking acting like this?"
"Why don't you just stop drinking?"

I never knew the answer to those questions. Today I would my answer would be something like ....... denial, pain, shame, fear, and self-loathing to name a few.

wheresthefun

What comes to mind, is the reply Louis Armstrong gave, when asked to explain Jazz - "Man, if you have to ask what it is, you’ll never know."

Soberpotamus

-- Yes, of course I understood my hangovers were a result of drinking the alcohol. I chose to drink anyway. There was no problem understanding cause and effect. When you are an alcoholic/addict, your brain's executive functions and higher reasoning (frontal lobe) are in essence "hijacked" by the part of the brain that is mostly concerned with survival. That is why we do things that are considered reprehensible and irresponsible. The alcohol is perceived by the brain to be a reward much the same way food and sex are... yet, on a MUCH higher level. So, it is much more reinforced in the reward/pleasure system of the brain.

Eddiebuckle

The problem is that you are looking at this from a position of logic. Addiction is not logical, and while I was drinking I could never tell how bad I would feel the next day but I knew how I would feel in fifteen minutes. The fifteen minutes won hands down, for years. By the time consequences pile up, drinking is no longer a choice, it had become me and how I got through a day. When I ultimately quit, suicide and sobriety appeared to be roughly equal options to solving my problem. Giving up alcohol was like selling my soul.

AA's step 2 says "Came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity." Until you have been to the jumping off place, you have no idea what that means.

ScottFromWI

If you stay drunk all the time you never have a hangover. That's why a lot of "hardcore" drinkers start drinking in the morning - so you avoid having a hangover and just stay drunk all day long. And if you drink enough the night before, you still have a high enough BAC in your system to make it through part of the next day.

And at some point, you don't even get hangovers anymore..you just go right into physical withdrawals. Towards the end of my drinking, I didn't drink because I wanted to - I drank because I had to in order to keep my heart rate under 100BPM and not have a stroke or a seizure.

Mrrryah1

1) In my experience, getting really super drunk creates a horrible hangover. I can understand doing this a few times until it clicks that "feeling bad was caused by drinking too much." I can't understand why anyone would "agree" on some level to live in so much agony. Does it register that the miserable hangover is caused by the booze or is the entire process unconscious? I would love to hear actual experiences of people who have lived like this for years.

My desire for the immediate escape provided by alcohol is greater than my desire to not feel a horrible hangover the next day, in the given moment when I decide to pick up a drink. It's as simple for that. Feel good now - face consequences later.

Think of it this way. If you had a broken leg and you were hurting so bad you were screaming, desperate to not feel the pain anymore. Someone offered you a pill which would immediately soothe the pain, but would make you really sick a few days later. Depending on how much pain you were in, there's a good chance you'd take the pill no matter how bad the after affects would be. Your desire to escape the pain in that moment was greater than your desire to not face consequences later on.

That's how we alcoholics feel about living in our own skin, living in our own reality, in our own lives, sometimes. It can be so painful, and alcohol brings temporary relief, even if we know and even understand that consequences will occur later. Depending on our level of discomfort, anxiety, depression, irritability, whatever it may be, it looks to be worth it.

2) When you begin to have negative consequences (lose your stuff, your job, your relationships) what do you say to yourself? And when you don't stop and things keep getting worse, what are you thinking?

Sometimes I blame other people, place, things for my misforture. Usually now I just blame myself... I come up with ways that "it will be different next time". I think of different ways to control the situation next time, different barriers to put in place so disasterous things don't happen "next time".

Never works, though.

But ask me tomorrow and I might tell you I found the "solution" for my next drink.

3) If you have been in and out of detoxes and rehabs, what is your thinking each time you land there again (just before you decide to "go out" again)? What is your life philosophy at that point?

Same as question 2 basically. I think I'm smarter, I'm different. I can figure a way out of this problem I seem to be having.

It's really difficult to comprehend that your mind lies to you. Imagine you couldn't trust your own thinking at all - just for a moment. That's what it's like to be a sober alcoholic. It is scary and it is hard to accept.

Hope any of this may have helped.

PaperDolls

THIS. This is really the only answer to these questions.

Addiction is not logical.

seek

I thank each one of you for your honest responses . . .It really does help me to understand just a little bit better. I wish each one of you all of the best.

seek

. . .

seek

Curious if there was any realization (at any level of consciousness, whether waking, sleeping/dreaming, etc.) of the self-destructiveness . . . and if so, what can you say about your process around that?

Did you ever question what was driving the self-destruction or think about how you might address it in healthy ways? Or did that not come to your awareness at all?

Thanks

Dee74

Let me get all Tom Sawyer

Imagine there's a lovely fresh steaming apple pie on the windowsill...

you know know you shouldn't....you know you'll be late for school...you know you'll get a whippin' both at home and school...you know if you eat too much you'll be sick after...

but nothing matters right now in this minute but *that pie*

what the hell....maybe this time, you can just cut a small piece...??




of course we always get bit in the butt...

D

seek

I can understand that if you are a child and have gotten away with it (have had no real negative repercussions) . . . but once the negative consequences start piling up and you KNOW what is going to happen, and the stakes are super high (life and death) . . . does any rational thought cross your mind (it must - even if brief or faint - because at some point, some people stop).

CAPTAINZING2000

What are you seeking from the replies ?

I believe, I have an allergy to alcohol. I also believe, it's a progressive disease.
I kept it simple enough I could wrap my thoughts on that.
It's really irrelevant why as far as I'm concerned. It's something I finally accepted to move forward.

There has to be be many people asking why, they got cancer. As a rule, people with cancer seek treatment ASAP . An alcoholic tries to live in denial of their disease. That's the biggest problem an alcoholic has, their denial of their alcoholism .

trachemys

^^^This.

When you drink enough, there are no hangovers. There are still injuries and blackouts but, since you're drunk all the time, you don't care.

"Negative stuff" starts happening pretty early. The ability to ignore it corresponds to the ability to rationalize.

Rehabs and detoxes are like jails and prisons to repeat offenders: just part of the life.

Dee74

well, in several fundamental ways, I wasn't a growup until I stopped drinking, which is why I used the Tom Sawyer analogy...

Addicted me was all charm and guile, seeing what I could get away with...kinda cute in a 5 year old...not so much at 40.

D

CAPTAINZING2000

Hmmm pie

seek

To Captain who asked what I am seeking from the replies - one of my most beloved young relatives is alcoholic and I am seeking understanding - from a compassionate perspective, as opposed to judgmental . . . As I said, I have read a lot about alcoholism, but "coming from the horse's mouth" - the replies in THIS thread have helped me to humanize the problem - I am simply seeking, to my ABILITY, to understand. That's my M.O. Probably an addiction - ha ha!