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Quitting vs. Improving

Old 11-22-2014, 06:44 AM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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[quote]CFD it's taken you 5-6 months to cut down to 2 every night.

Genuine questions:
How long do you expect it to take for you to cut down to drinking nothing in a week?

and are you seriously presenting your method as 'successful' enough to present as a possible manifesto* for others (*your word not mine)?

D[\quote]

I honestly don't know. I do know that 2-3 beers per night is not near as bad as 5-6. It's not good, but it is an improvement. I think the most important thing I've learned is that I don't have to drink the whole six pack and when to say I've had enough. I wasn't doing that in the past. In the past there was an internal effort to reach some state of mind where I was drunk and to keep drinking. I don't do that anymore. Last night for example, I had some beer...the family was out of town and some buddies were over. Normally, I would have kept up with them drinking all night. Instead I left half a beer in the bottle. The old me would have kept going all night.

I know I've made a major change. I'll check in.
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:12 AM
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KChance,

sounds like Moderation Management might be of interest to you.

google it and see.
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Old 11-22-2014, 02:40 PM
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Thank you for the continued thoughts and comments. There continues to be views from both sides of things. Personally I view it as a challenge to myself to find a way to moderate it. Even if I have already gotten to a point where I have crossed that line (I dont know if I have or not). If I had to accept the label of alcoholic and work towards the challenge of never drinking again I would see that as a weakness for myself and in some kind of way, a loss in the game of life. Not a loss that I couldn't drink anymore, but a loss that I'm not strong enough to handle it. Also, I have always been the type of person who is highly motivated by being told I can't do something. So for hearing from many that moderation wont work and its not possible, that drives me to want to prove I can. So for now to work on that moderation I am putting a goal on myself. No drinking during the week, only on weekends. That is my goal. I will report in here to say how I am doing and any continued encouragement is appreciated.
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:47 PM
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I wish you the best.

The only thing I'd quibble with is your thought that alcoholism is a "weakness"--it isn't. Some of the strongest, most intelligent, determined people I know cannot drink normally. It takes strength to admit that, especially when so many people like yourself look at it that way.

I'd try to get rid of that idea, because even if it SEEMS like a motivator to moderate, it can be a great big obstacle to a happy life if the moderation experiment doesn't turn out the way you hope it does.

Good luck, and stay honest!
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
So for now to work on that moderation I am putting a goal on myself. No drinking during the week, only on weekends. That is my goal. I will report in here to say how I am doing and any continued encouragement is appreciated.
This is a recovery forum. Sobriety the goal. Frankly, I don't want to hear about your success in moderation. It's still drinking. We've all done that. If and when you decide to quit, there will be encouragement aplenty.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl View Post
This is a recovery forum. Sobriety the goal. Frankly, I don't want to hear about your success in moderation. It's still drinking. We've all done that. If and when you decide to quit, there will be encouragement aplenty.
A little harsh don't you think. I thought the goal was to help people not be addicted to alcohol. Does it really matter how it happens as long as that is prevented?
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:29 PM
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Kc, some form of controlled drinking is usually the first line of attack for someone who suspects they may have a problem. What you are proposing is endorsed by most alcohol and drug services as well a s AA. Drinking only on weekends is a reasonable goal, though the amount consumed should be taken into consideration also. I know real alcoholics who only drank rarely, just a few times each year, but what happened when they drank was the concern.

On this site, the majority have probably tried some form of your plan many times and failed many times. That's how we learnt our lesson. The same will go for you. Your plan will either work and you will get to enjoy a full and normal life as moderate drinker, or it will fail and you will have learnt the true nature of your problem. Even if it fails, you will still have the possibility of enjoying a full and normal life, just as a sober alcoholic is all.
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:42 PM
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Like others have said, I've tried moderation and it works, like 2 times. Then I'm back at it full swing pretty much guzzling wine because I convinced myself I was " fine" now.
Like someone else said, I think there might be a line we cross and can't go back. I know I never used to have a serious alcohol problem, and I don't know when I crossed over, but I did.
Be careful of the moderation trap, you can probably do it, but for how long? That's what happened to me. I thought because I owned a business, travelled the world and get A's in university, I couldn't be an alcoholic, I was just a binge drinker.
But like another said, it's what's happening when you drink that's the concern.
Why do you think you need to cut back, blackouts? Or did something happen, or just a general concern?
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:29 PM
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There are online support groups to support efforts to moderate. In my experience, most of the people there would be better off quitting (some of them have been struggling--not happily moderating, but struggling--for years and years).

I had to sign off that group when I decided to quit drinking. Here's the deal, for those of us who CANNOT drink, it's a matter of life or death--no kidding. So for people who CANNOT drink, it's really not good for us to listen to other people who are trying to. It speaks to that little voice in the back of our minds that pops up sometimes, unexpectedly, that whispers if we really TRIED, maybe we could do it. Not a good thing to feed.

So we can wish you the best, and still say that this isn't an appropriate place for support of moderation efforts. You will be welcome back, any time, if you decide you are done.
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:35 PM
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Hi Kchance

The vast majority of members here are proponents for abstinence - not because of dogma, but because that's the only thing that worked for them.

Most of us have tried moderation and failed.

In fact my efforts to keep drinking nearly killed me.

That's the context of this website - and really I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who spends a little time here.

Like others have mentioned, there are other forums around where you will probably get a more positive response to a desire to moderate

D
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsbodhi View Post
Like others have said, I've tried moderation and it works, like 2 times. Then I'm back at it full swing pretty much guzzling wine because I convinced myself I was " fine" now.
Like someone else said, I think there might be a line we cross and can't go back. I know I never used to have a serious alcohol problem, and I don't know when I crossed over, but I did.
Be careful of the moderation trap, you can probably do it, but for how long? That's what happened to me. I thought because I owned a business, travelled the world and get A's in university, I couldn't be an alcoholic, I was just a binge drinker.
But like another said, it's what's happening when you drink that's the concern.
Why do you think you need to cut back, blackouts? Or did something happen, or just a general concern?
There has never been a specific incident that made me say "too much drinking". I have never been violent or caused any major problems when drinking too much. I just use it to cope with everyday stress too often. I don't like that I drink everyday and that it became 3-4 drinks a day. That is just too much. It makes me tired and lacking motivation to be productive.
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:49 PM
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As for those other sites, I looked into the moderation management one, it didn't have many people and didn't seem as active. Less people and less active means less support. I had hoped I could still get support here. I guess that is not the case and it still comes down to all or nothing with some of you. I came looking for support in not drinking so much and being alcohol dependent. Guess I didn't find that.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
A little harsh don't you think. I thought the goal was to help people not be addicted to alcohol. Does it really matter how it happens as long as that is prevented?
KC,
let me mention again that Moderation Management might be the place where your goal is in line with others' goals.
this here is indeed a recovery forum for people who want to quit drinking. if moderation is your goal, this is not a place where you'll find your crowd.

i'm not surprised that MM is not as active as this place. it seems to me that most people who moderate do so naturally and wouldn't look for on-line help.
when i looked at MM, it was in effect a desperate attempt at not having to stop drinking.
but that was me

when i read that in order to start with their program i should have 3 months of abstinence first, i just burst out laughing. certainly that wasn't MY idea of moderation!

good luck to you.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
KC,
let me mention again that Moderation Management might be the place where your goal is in line with others' goals.
this here is indeed a recovery forum for people who want to quit drinking. if moderation is your goal, this is not a place where you'll find your crowd.

i'm not surprised that MM is not as active as this place. it seems to me that most people who moderate do so naturally and wouldn't look for on-line help.
when i looked at MM, it was in effect a desperate attempt at not having to stop drinking.
but that was me

when i read that in order to start with their program i should have 3 months of abstinence first, i just burst out laughing. certainly that wasn't MY idea of moderation!

good luck to you.
Happy Thanksgiving weekend to all here, hope the weekend was good for all. Again I understand the concept of this site and the MM site. But I still have a hard time understanding people here not wanting to help someone who wants to prevent being an alcoholic (alcohol dependent/alcohol abuser). I think that is the ultimate goal of both sites. To me, it shouldn't matter how it is done just as long as that is prevented. Best wishes to all.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
Again I understand the concept of this site and the MM site. But I still have a hard time understanding people here not wanting to help someone who wants to prevent being an alcoholic
I think the real problem is that you don't understand what it means to be an alcohoic. Alcoholics cannot moderate their drinking....period. It's possible that you are not an alcoholic of course, in which case you shouldn't need any support at all...simply drink a moderate amount and be done with it.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
Happy Thanksgiving weekend to all here, hope the weekend was good for all. Again I understand the concept of this site and the MM site. But I still have a hard time understanding people here not wanting to help someone who wants to prevent being an alcoholic (alcohol dependent/alcohol abuser). I think that is the ultimate goal of both sites. To me, it shouldn't matter how it is done just as long as that is prevented. Best wishes to all.
if i could drink 2 or 3 drinks a night and not end up in trouble etc i wouldnt be here nor in aa

the fact is when i drink i drink and get drunk, it leads on to all sorts of other problems for me like i could end up being violent, i might oversleep and not get up for work you name it anything can happen for me if i take just 1 drink

its starts a craving off in me that has no off switch

so again if i could drink 2 or 3 drinks i really wouldnt need help if thats all my problem was
just enjoy the fact you can drink normaly and nothing bad happens to you when you drink
its something i chased all my drinking life but had to come to accept that for me i will never be able to drink normaly like others and its far to dangerous for me

good luck to you
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
I think the real problem is that you don't understand what it means to be an alcohoic. Alcoholics cannot moderate their drinking....period. It's possible that you are not an alcoholic of course, in which case you shouldn't need any support at all...simply drink a moderate amount and be done with it.
Oh I know that first part. My goal was to not get to that point. You also think that just because someone is not that far doesn't mean they don't need support? That seems odd. Don't you think for all of those alcoholics it would have been nice if they had gotten support before they got to the point of being an alcoholic. If it is as simple as drink a moderate amount and be done with it, then thats all we would have to tell everyone who is not an alcoholic yet and nobody would ever become one. But it is not that simple and you know it.
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
Oh I know that first part. My goal was to not get to that point. If it is as simple as drink a moderate amount and be done with it, then thats all we would have to tell everyone who is not an alcoholic yet and nobody would ever become one. But it is not that simple and you know it.
So let's make it simple...can you control your drinking?
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:13 PM
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You also think that just because someone is not that far doesn't mean they don't need support? That seems odd. Don't you think for all of those alcoholics it would have been nice if they had gotten support before they got to the point of being an alcoholic.
You're getting that support. The problem is I think you don't like the answers you're getting.

If you want support to continue drinking you're simply not going to find that here.

D
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KChance View Post
Thank you for the continued thoughts and comments. There continues to be views from both sides of things. Personally I view it as a challenge to myself to find a way to moderate it. Even if I have already gotten to a point where I have crossed that line (I dont know if I have or not). If I had to accept the label of alcoholic and work towards the challenge of never drinking again I would see that as a weakness for myself and in some kind of way, a loss in the game of life. Not a loss that I couldn't drink anymore, but a loss that I'm not strong enough to handle it. Also, I have always been the type of person who is highly motivated by being told I can't do something. So for hearing from many that moderation wont work and its not possible, that drives me to want to prove I can. So for now to work on that moderation I am putting a goal on myself. No drinking during the week, only on weekends. That is my goal. I will report in here to say how I am doing and any continued encouragement is appreciated.
Funny, I had this exact same plan. I did white knuckle sobriety from Sunday night to Friday afternoon. I was miserable when not drinking and then making up for lost time all weekend. The weekends I was more in the hole than ever before. Then I started allowing myself to drink Sunday night too. Then Thursday. Then,,, well you see where this goes. Good luck to you though. I for one am interested to hear about it.
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