AA and the higher power
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 317
AA and the higher power
AA doesn't work. I don't believe in this higher power. If it did, the man up there would have listened to my prayers, cries and screams years back. But he didn't listen and made me worse.
Yes, he made worse by not listening. Instead of blessing me; he cursed me.
I will prove it on Thursday when my endocrinologist sends me away again.
Yes, he made worse by not listening. Instead of blessing me; he cursed me.
I will prove it on Thursday when my endocrinologist sends me away again.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Right. I call those "flare prayers" - the ones I would say when I was in trouble.
The trick is once I asked, I then needed to listen. I had to do certain things in order for good to come my way.
Prayer is believing, faith. Looking for good, and seeking discernment.
You know what you need to do. Since you have been given free will - you have to make the next right choice. Eventually a bunch of right choices equal success.
You already have a Higher Power. It is the Higher part of you, the Higher part of nature, the goodness in everything. Seek it.
The trick is once I asked, I then needed to listen. I had to do certain things in order for good to come my way.
Prayer is believing, faith. Looking for good, and seeking discernment.
You know what you need to do. Since you have been given free will - you have to make the next right choice. Eventually a bunch of right choices equal success.
You already have a Higher Power. It is the Higher part of you, the Higher part of nature, the goodness in everything. Seek it.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I started my AA journey in a similar way. AA probably won't work. I didn't believe in a higher power because I had never experienced any miracles, just like you.
Of course, as God didn't exist, I could hardly blame Him for my problems. They were of my own making for the most part which is why I was full of guilt and remorse. There was no one to blame but me.
Then I was faced with another problem. I didn't seem to be able to fix myself. If I could have, I would have. What was I to do? Perhaps I had to at least open my mind a little to spiritual concepts. After all I was sitting in a room full of happy smiling AA members who had found a way out and they were quite good proof against my argument that AA probably doesn't work.
Of course, as God didn't exist, I could hardly blame Him for my problems. They were of my own making for the most part which is why I was full of guilt and remorse. There was no one to blame but me.
Then I was faced with another problem. I didn't seem to be able to fix myself. If I could have, I would have. What was I to do? Perhaps I had to at least open my mind a little to spiritual concepts. After all I was sitting in a room full of happy smiling AA members who had found a way out and they were quite good proof against my argument that AA probably doesn't work.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
My Creator gave me the choice to drink and ruin my life, a choice I made every time I put that handle of smirnoff to my face. He also gave the tools I needed to quit drinking. The rest was up to me.
I don't think this is a question of whether AA 'works', BH28. The question is 'Does AA work for you?'. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, it is up to you to answer this for yourself. How does this answer direct your behaviour?
I don't think this is a question of whether AA 'works', BH28. The question is 'Does AA work for you?'. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, it is up to you to answer this for yourself. How does this answer direct your behaviour?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
If you don't believe in a higher power, then how can you believe he made you worse? Can't have it both ways.
Good news is, you absolutely can quit drinking regardless of your beliefs regarding a higher power.
Good news is, you absolutely can quit drinking regardless of your beliefs regarding a higher power.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
I should probably mention.
I was a card carrying Atheist for 30 odd years (I'm 42 now)
Just part of the rebellious nature of alcoholism I guess.
Suggest I should turn right and I'd turn left just to spite.
Carl Jung the famous psychiatrist said "spiritus contra spiritum "
In other words... Good spirit conquers bad spirit
The clue that opened me up was that the strongest alcoholic beverages are called "Spirits "...... Alcoholic folk tend to be looking for spirituality all along..... But it's the bad spirit that we find out is in the bottle.
Alcohol provides a pseudo spiritual experience
I was a card carrying Atheist for 30 odd years (I'm 42 now)
Just part of the rebellious nature of alcoholism I guess.
Suggest I should turn right and I'd turn left just to spite.
Carl Jung the famous psychiatrist said "spiritus contra spiritum "
In other words... Good spirit conquers bad spirit
The clue that opened me up was that the strongest alcoholic beverages are called "Spirits "...... Alcoholic folk tend to be looking for spirituality all along..... But it's the bad spirit that we find out is in the bottle.
Alcohol provides a pseudo spiritual experience
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by Hawks
I was a card carrying Atheist for 30 odd years (I'm 42 now)
Just part of the rebellious nature of alcoholism I guess.
Suggest I should turn right and I'd turn left just to spite.
Just part of the rebellious nature of alcoholism I guess.
Suggest I should turn right and I'd turn left just to spite.
I wouldn't consider atheism "rebellious". It is just a belief system. Why would you frame it as such, Hawks?
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
God can move mountains!
I need to grab a shovel.......
:
Very few of us have a road to Damascus type experience. Mine is of the learned, educational variety - when alcohol is removed from the equation, the conduit through the Holy Spirit get's opened up. At least, this has been my experience.
I need to grab a shovel.......
:Very few of us have a road to Damascus type experience. Mine is of the learned, educational variety - when alcohol is removed from the equation, the conduit through the Holy Spirit get's opened up. At least, this has been my experience.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Bh28, I think many people who successfully use 12-step programs don't take the HP as something esoteric or supernatural. There were many threads discussing these individual views here on SR, look them up. I would not reject an otherwise beneficial program (if it is so) just because of this.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
I believe the Man upstairs hears ALL cries
and praises. I believe He helps all who help
themselves in one way or another.
Did I blame Him each and everytime I
was beat by the hand of a sick parent?
Did I blame Him for all the ridicule and
cruelty of my classmates?
I was raised and schooled in a Catholic
upbringing, so I always believed in God
of my understanding.
No, Im no holy roly or a bible thumper
or an on going church member. However,
being in recovery I have a more enriched
spiritual understanding of God.
I recall many times during my illness,
addiction and after, times I cried, screamed
to the hilt wondering why my HP wasn't
granting me relief from failures, dishonesty,
and so much more.
Then, in recovery I learned that my HP
wasn't gonna grant me anything in my
time. That it had to happen in His. When
He saw fit to help me. Until then, I worked
on my recovery, remain sober, burned my
hands a few more times and turn my will
and life over to Him day after day.
Yes, He has heard my cries. Yes He has
blessed me. Yes, He cares and guides me
with every step I take each and every day.
Today, it's not about what I want in life
but rather what I need from Him. Yes, I
place my trust and dependence on Him
to keep me safe, sober, happy, healthy
and honest along with a solid recovery
foundation Ive built my life upon.
Of course, this is how I live my life
and recovery each day.
and praises. I believe He helps all who help
themselves in one way or another.
Did I blame Him each and everytime I
was beat by the hand of a sick parent?
Did I blame Him for all the ridicule and
cruelty of my classmates?
I was raised and schooled in a Catholic
upbringing, so I always believed in God
of my understanding.
No, Im no holy roly or a bible thumper
or an on going church member. However,
being in recovery I have a more enriched
spiritual understanding of God.
I recall many times during my illness,
addiction and after, times I cried, screamed
to the hilt wondering why my HP wasn't
granting me relief from failures, dishonesty,
and so much more.
Then, in recovery I learned that my HP
wasn't gonna grant me anything in my
time. That it had to happen in His. When
He saw fit to help me. Until then, I worked
on my recovery, remain sober, burned my
hands a few more times and turn my will
and life over to Him day after day.
Yes, He has heard my cries. Yes He has
blessed me. Yes, He cares and guides me
with every step I take each and every day.
Today, it's not about what I want in life
but rather what I need from Him. Yes, I
place my trust and dependence on Him
to keep me safe, sober, happy, healthy
and honest along with a solid recovery
foundation Ive built my life upon.
Of course, this is how I live my life
and recovery each day.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 37
The higher power part of AA hung me up for years too. I have never been religious. I am a scientist, so I cannot say God or Gods do or do not exist, just I haven't necessarily seen it myself.
However, if you read Step 2 and Step 3, it was worded specifically to be open ended and for the individual to decide what their higher power is.
2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
So as I work the program, I use my higher power that I had lost when I became a full blown alcoholic - my connection with nature and the world around us. My higher power is mother nature. By returning to what drove me through life to begin with (a passion for science and biology) I am restoring my sanity without the need to accept a God or religion. Some would argue science is a religion, and thus by looking at it that way, mother nature is my god. *shrug*
Find a higher power that suits you. It doesn't have to be God, or Zues.
However, if you read Step 2 and Step 3, it was worded specifically to be open ended and for the individual to decide what their higher power is.
2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
So as I work the program, I use my higher power that I had lost when I became a full blown alcoholic - my connection with nature and the world around us. My higher power is mother nature. By returning to what drove me through life to begin with (a passion for science and biology) I am restoring my sanity without the need to accept a God or religion. Some would argue science is a religion, and thus by looking at it that way, mother nature is my god. *shrug*
Find a higher power that suits you. It doesn't have to be God, or Zues.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Originally Posted by soberlicious 
This is interesting to me. I fully embraced my atheism only after I became sober almost 8 years ago. Until I quit, I never had the confidence to examine my beliefs very deeply. I mainly looked to others to tell me what I should believe. I always felt unsettled. Now, I feel at peace.
I wouldn't consider atheism "rebellious". It is just a belief system. Why would you frame it as such, Hawks?
I wouldn't consider atheism "rebellious". It is just a belief system. Why would you frame it as such, Hawks?
"magic sky fairies gonna help with a drink problem? ..... Ahahaha.... Good luck with that you Goofs"
Until one day, when all other lines had been exhausted, I cried out to the God of my childhood.
And zap.... I didn't want to drink anymore.
I later failed to enlarge on my spiritual life and old ideas supplanted new.
So 4 more years of drinking and then another cry for help.
Zap... I don't want to drink anymore. (although that doesn't mean I don't think about it, just that the obsession has been removed)
Two saves in one lifetime.... Power greater than me?
Obviously... The power to solve my drinking problem wasnt in me.
I have decades of historical evidence to support that.
Your mileage may vary.
If it's working keep doing it.
I can only share my experience, as you have
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Well put, Flynbuy and aasharon.
I try hard to look for God, to turn my will, my sobriety and my life over to God and to learn and do God's will on a daily/hourly basis.
So far, I have gotten better and haven't had to drink since I first asked for help.
I try hard to look for God, to turn my will, my sobriety and my life over to God and to learn and do God's will on a daily/hourly basis.
So far, I have gotten better and haven't had to drink since I first asked for help.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
i to was puzzled when i would hear people sharing in meetings how they prayed to god and got saved etc
they are telling people that all they need to do is pray and believe in a god and you will be saved
then to further muddy the waters if things turn out bad no matter how much you pray there is a nice answer for it and its sometimes the answer is no
to me its all one sided and a bit of a twisted slanted argument so i had to try to find what on earth has worked for me as i don't believe in a god and never will believe in one
from my side of the street i see a lot of people in aa who still kept there wives and familys and jobs and they put that down to a loving kind god that saved them from losing it all as though it some sort of miracle
i don't believe that at all i believe people are either lucky or unlucky in this world and it depends on each and everyone of us as to how far down we go before we start to take it serious
i have seen to much pain and suffering to innocent kids to ever believe there is such a kind loving being out there that has a power to save them but will not do so, try as hard as i can to try to put those things out of my mind and try to see if there is anything i am missing i just can not see past the cruelty and painful way these kids die
when it comes to aa and higher power thing i know i have to lose my own will and give in to some sort of guidance
i get that guidance from the meetings and the people who share honestly with me tonights meeting was all about how we have to cope with other people and there ways and how wrong it is for me to demand everythng has to be done my way etc
i dont need to follow a gods will to live my life trying not to be so selfish and demanding etc i just need to see that i am like that and to try to not do it the next time anything comes up
so the idea behind the higher power i can or i do have an understanding of it in terms of me having to lose my own self will as its such a destructive force inside of me and thats sober not drunk
so for me i am growing along spiritual lines not a god type religion line were i need to pray for it
but i do not tell anyone that they can not believe in a god or demand people don't believe in a god or anything like.
believe whatever you want to believe and if the op doesnt believe in a god thats ok aa will still work if you let it help you
they are telling people that all they need to do is pray and believe in a god and you will be saved
then to further muddy the waters if things turn out bad no matter how much you pray there is a nice answer for it and its sometimes the answer is no
to me its all one sided and a bit of a twisted slanted argument so i had to try to find what on earth has worked for me as i don't believe in a god and never will believe in one
from my side of the street i see a lot of people in aa who still kept there wives and familys and jobs and they put that down to a loving kind god that saved them from losing it all as though it some sort of miracle
i don't believe that at all i believe people are either lucky or unlucky in this world and it depends on each and everyone of us as to how far down we go before we start to take it serious
i have seen to much pain and suffering to innocent kids to ever believe there is such a kind loving being out there that has a power to save them but will not do so, try as hard as i can to try to put those things out of my mind and try to see if there is anything i am missing i just can not see past the cruelty and painful way these kids die
when it comes to aa and higher power thing i know i have to lose my own will and give in to some sort of guidance
i get that guidance from the meetings and the people who share honestly with me tonights meeting was all about how we have to cope with other people and there ways and how wrong it is for me to demand everythng has to be done my way etc
i dont need to follow a gods will to live my life trying not to be so selfish and demanding etc i just need to see that i am like that and to try to not do it the next time anything comes up
so the idea behind the higher power i can or i do have an understanding of it in terms of me having to lose my own self will as its such a destructive force inside of me and thats sober not drunk
so for me i am growing along spiritual lines not a god type religion line were i need to pray for it
but i do not tell anyone that they can not believe in a god or demand people don't believe in a god or anything like.
believe whatever you want to believe and if the op doesnt believe in a god thats ok aa will still work if you let it help you
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Bh28
AA doesn't work. I don't believe in this higher power. If it did, the man up there would have listened to my prayers, cries and screams years back. But he didn't listen and made me worse.
Yes, he made worse by not listening. Instead of blessing me; he cursed me.
I will prove it on Thursday when my endocrinologist sends me away again.
Yes, he made worse by not listening. Instead of blessing me; he cursed me.
I will prove it on Thursday when my endocrinologist sends me away again.
I'm not that smart but how can an endocrinologist send you away and where is away?
How did he make you worse?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
"magic sky fairies gonna help with a drink problem? ..... Ahahaha.... Good luck with that you Goofs"
I quit drinking and have made a good life for myself. No higher power involved. Just me and the power of my loved ones and friends that I lean on and am leaned on by.
I am glad that your higher power works in your life. I respect that. I just wanted you to realize that not all of us who don't rely on a higher power are being rebellious or are "in a phase" or will someday see the light. I am very happy that you have been relieved of your addiction. You and I are not different in knowing that pain, are we?
To the OP, what secular methods have you looked into to end your addiction? Also, there are many atheists who successfully work the program of AA. Have you looked into that?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
