Rumination
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Rumination
Have any of you actually solved this problem in any major way? I often think my brain has a catalog of every trauma that ever happened in my life and at times it just wants to drag it out for review. You can know very instinctively that thinking about things that happened 25 years ago serves no purpose yet at times the mind wants to do it anyhow.
The problem is that this only serves to make depressions worse and the more you try not to think about those things the more you often do. Acceptance alone doesn't stop the thoughts but does seem to help to some degree. It does seem that depressions favorite hangout place is with all the bad stuff from the past and it doesn't care how far back in time it goes to drag that stuff up.
I know our minds aren't like hard drives where we can just erase the bad things but there should be a better way to control the rumination. How do you guys deal with this aspect of the mind? I try to shift my focus to other things but it only works to a small degree. Any thoughts on this topic? Do you think our brains are just hardwired to do this?
The problem is that this only serves to make depressions worse and the more you try not to think about those things the more you often do. Acceptance alone doesn't stop the thoughts but does seem to help to some degree. It does seem that depressions favorite hangout place is with all the bad stuff from the past and it doesn't care how far back in time it goes to drag that stuff up.
I know our minds aren't like hard drives where we can just erase the bad things but there should be a better way to control the rumination. How do you guys deal with this aspect of the mind? I try to shift my focus to other things but it only works to a small degree. Any thoughts on this topic? Do you think our brains are just hardwired to do this?
Happy, joyous, and free
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Yep. Happens to me too. My answer is prayer. If my thoughts are directed at God, if I'm soaking in the love my Creator has for me and me for Him, I'm not spending time in the past. It's not always easy, but it's gotten easier to redirect my thoughts over the years.
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Trauma typically involves some anger that is directed at the source of that trauma. If the anger is a part of the rumination, then it is commonly referred to as a resentment. It is anger relived in a sense.
Resentment is something that I believe is common among alcoholics. It's one of those things that ends up being a big factor in relapse.
The AA program (the steps) provide a way to resolve resentments.
I believe this has a great deal to do with why AA has been so successful.
Resentment is something that I believe is common among alcoholics. It's one of those things that ends up being a big factor in relapse.
The AA program (the steps) provide a way to resolve resentments.
I believe this has a great deal to do with why AA has been so successful.
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I know AA talks a lot about this topic. Resentment is a big part of it and that is often directed at yourself as in asking "How could I have been so stupid" to have made this or that decision. Even living in the present is one of those things that sounds nice but the mind doesn't always go along with the plan.
Spirituality in most forms including Buddhism has much to say about it but the words don't always translate into action. It does seem like depression sends out a signal to drag all the negative stuff up and it just feeds on itself.
Spirituality in most forms including Buddhism has much to say about it but the words don't always translate into action. It does seem like depression sends out a signal to drag all the negative stuff up and it just feeds on itself.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne 
Any thoughts on this topic? Do you think our brains are just hardwired to do this?
I think as humans, if we do something a lot it is because there is some reward in it for us. You say you don't like reliving old trauma. Yet you do. So what are you getting out of it?
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I know our minds aren't like hard drives where we can just erase the bad things but there should be a better way to control the rumination. How do you guys deal with this aspect of the mind? I try to shift my focus to other things but it only works to a small degree. Any thoughts on this topic? Do you think our brains are just hardwired to do this?
Spiritual Detachment does not mean that I don't care nor does it mean that I am not responsible. When practiced properly I am responsible for my part - my part only. I care just enough to make an effort to do my part but not so much that I think my part is all there is. It involves 4 phases;
1. I recognize my part
2. I do my part (only my part)
3. I trust my Higher Power to do it's part
4. I detach from the outcome
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl
Some people, and I'm not saying this is you, are hooked on despair as much as they are hooked on a drug. Why?
I think as humans, if we do something a lot it is because there is some reward in it for us. You say you don't like reliving old trauma. Yet you do. So what are you getting out of it?
I think as humans, if we do something a lot it is because there is some reward in it for us. You say you don't like reliving old trauma. Yet you do. So what are you getting out of it?
Whenever I get in a depressed state my mind just seems to focus on all the negative thoughts it can come up with. That is a good question tho, I don't think you get anything good out of those kind of thoughts.
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Originally Posted by Boleo
Spiritual Detachment is the tool that I use to deal with all disturbances - past, present and future. I am not talking about acceptance which is a purely passive tool. Detachment is something that I have to actively practice in all my affairs.
Spiritual Detachment does not mean that I don't care nor does it mean that I am not responsible. When practiced properly I am responsible for my part - my part only. I care just enough to make an effort to do my part but not so much that I think my part is all there is. It involves 4 phases;
1. I recognize my part
2. I do my part (only my part)
3. I trust my Higher Power to do it's part
4. I detach from the outcome
Spiritual Detachment does not mean that I don't care nor does it mean that I am not responsible. When practiced properly I am responsible for my part - my part only. I care just enough to make an effort to do my part but not so much that I think my part is all there is. It involves 4 phases;
1. I recognize my part
2. I do my part (only my part)
3. I trust my Higher Power to do it's part
4. I detach from the outcome
Interesting Boleo, I think you could apply detachment to depression. I have to think about that more.
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Interesting Boleo, I think you could apply detachment to depression. I have to think about that more.
The courage to change the things I can - 2
And the wisdom to know the difference - 1 & 4
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This was recently posted on another thread, and suggests that rumination and regret, dwelling on issues of the past, and its companion anxiety which is dwelling on issues of the future, can both be addressed by a focus on the present.
It is written that the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss and see that the victim is completely healed. I'd do that stuff first.
Mindfulness of breath, or awareness of breath. Google those words, then go from there. Meditation need not be spiritual or transformative or anything at all, but simply turning your mind's focus to awareness of the present. The present means what you are experiencing right now from your five senses, each in turn, and what you are thinking. It is about observing your thoughts and experiencing them, but removing yourself from them. When the monkey chatter, the thoughts about what has happened and what has yet to happen, starts up again, observe the thought but don't get pulled into it. Then, return your mind back to your breath.
For me, it is like a vacation, and I can do it anytime I have even thirty seconds. The benefit comes not from how long I can maintain my focus without interrupting myself with monkey thoughts, but from the acceptance I generate when I lose focus, and return back to breath. I learn to accept these thoughts so that they can come and go without any conscious action from me.
I see this as a great companion to AVRT which is about awareness and recognition of drinking thoughts without requiring anything but acceptance.
For me, it is like a vacation, and I can do it anytime I have even thirty seconds. The benefit comes not from how long I can maintain my focus without interrupting myself with monkey thoughts, but from the acceptance I generate when I lose focus, and return back to breath. I learn to accept these thoughts so that they can come and go without any conscious action from me.
I see this as a great companion to AVRT which is about awareness and recognition of drinking thoughts without requiring anything but acceptance.
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Spirituality in most forms including Buddhism has much to say about it but the words don't always translate into action. It does seem like depression sends out a signal to drag all the negative stuff up and it just feeds on itself.
I read the power of now by eckhart tolle that helped. Awareness by anthony de mellow. Now I'm reading some stuff by Thich Nhat Hanh. Buddahism type stuff may not be your thing. For me I had to have an open mind I thought to myself there might be a few grains of sand in all this that are useful to me. What I started to realize when i read these books is that over the years i've been in a place that they describe. and I was always Happiest in that place But the world and everyone else had me terrified of such a place oh thats irresponable thats not the right way to think etc... Or i'd get sucked back into lifes nonsense or those bad thoughts.
After reading more into some of this stuff I've realize that I was not exactly wrong to go to that place in my mind where I just watched these thoughts pass by and paid no attention to them. WHen i first sobered up I think my mind went into a protection type phase. I was in a very wierd place. But I was also on one hand very happy. Lost in my little world I saw my life and all the good and all the bad and it was all there And I saw it all blow around and do wtvr it did as if i was a spectator. I was happy and content in that place.
There is always something to latch on too for happiness we just gotta grasp it and know how to stop our mind from running away.
I was very angry one day and went for a walk. This always helps me. But i was mad. I wanted to keep my head down and not look out why? becuase i new i'd see the world and its beuty where i live and i'd feel better and I wanted to remain angry. I was being a real moron. Finally i lifted my head looked out at the mountains the leaves changing and the beuaty etc.. and I felt great. All the while something in my head kept telling me Look up look around happiness is all around you. I was chooseing to keep my head down and remain bitter.
My wife told me once when iw as feeling crappy to kiss my babys head because if i do that I will not be able to remain miserable. she was right.
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Nasty thoughts are just thoughts.
My CBT therapist taught me not to try dismiss them, and you certainly can't unthink them.
But the trick is in the message that you tell yourself about those thoughts.
"This happened and this must mean I am..."
Very often we tell ourselves things that are not true.
If you are finding your depression is worsened by your pattern of thinking, I would ABSOLUTELY recommend CBT.
It was wonderfully liberating for me.
My CBT therapist taught me not to try dismiss them, and you certainly can't unthink them.
But the trick is in the message that you tell yourself about those thoughts.
"This happened and this must mean I am..."
Very often we tell ourselves things that are not true.
If you are finding your depression is worsened by your pattern of thinking, I would ABSOLUTELY recommend CBT.
It was wonderfully liberating for me.
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Thanks for the great responses guys, I continue to be blown away by the amount of knowledge on this board. Depression does seem to be one of those things you think you have beaten only to find it trying to creep back in again and again. This is why I see understanding what it is and how it works as so important. Almost as if to be able to speak to it and say "I see what you are and I know how you work and I'm not falling for it again."
It does try to gain access thru the thought process and take full control and that is where it must be stopped. I'm always finding new ways to deal with this opponent and again that is why all your responces are so very much appreciated.
It does try to gain access thru the thought process and take full control and that is where it must be stopped. I'm always finding new ways to deal with this opponent and again that is why all your responces are so very much appreciated.
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When I was using I had a bad habit of constantly going over things in my mind. Worthless things. I have done some stupid things I like to keep bringing up to myself and I have been hurt by stupid things others have done. I made a decision that they balanced out and I didn't have to worry about either anymore. It is done and it is settled. I used the same technique to stop that type of thinking I used to stop the alcohol from getting back in. I refuse to spend time or energy on it. I stop it right as it starts with an NONONO! Without anything feeding it just dies out.
Eventually I calmed down and I stopped dehumanizing myself and others because of past mistakes.
Eventually I calmed down and I stopped dehumanizing myself and others because of past mistakes.
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Another aspect to all of this is that for decades I told myself that I feel lousy and need alcohol or drugs for the release and relief. I think many of us have bought into that lie at one time or another only to eventually figure out that we felt even worse when the substances wore off.
Alcohol is such a major problem with depression because it does provide very temporary relief and its allure was always there for me. It took me decades to see thru that one in a big enough way to give it up for good. I kind of wonder if you don't see thru it from the start or you just don't see any better options, naybe its a little of each.
Alcohol is such a major problem with depression because it does provide very temporary relief and its allure was always there for me. It took me decades to see thru that one in a big enough way to give it up for good. I kind of wonder if you don't see thru it from the start or you just don't see any better options, naybe its a little of each.
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BTSO, I think you've make some good points. There are lots of things that can be part of the reason that alcohol and/or substances became such a large part of our lives. Rumination, anger, trauma, depression, and a whole host of other things as well like anxiety, poor self esteem, guilt, shame and the list goes on. They made mood altering substances far too attractive as a quick fix.
The message that all you need to do is "just don't drink" seems to me a completely inadequate solution. I think it often takes a long while to peal away the layers of things involved, and to come to some understandings.
The message that all you need to do is "just don't drink" seems to me a completely inadequate solution. I think it often takes a long while to peal away the layers of things involved, and to come to some understandings.
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All this to me is quite a dilemma.
As bad as i thought about the past when i was drinking, things are much worse now. At work for example, i get so caught up in pondering things that happened all the way back to when i was 5 years old or so that i find my job performance suffering quite noticeably. The overwhelming period i'm stuck in is from 14 to 22 when everything was there to be won and i failed quite miserably. Life has been merely waiting for death ever since considering that nothing significant has panned out all these years. Alcohol was a great for me, i'm not going to kid anyone. I couldn't (and still can't) afford any quality medical attention for a legion of physical and mental problems so turning to drink was perfectly natural.
As i mentioned sometime last year, i quit drinking to be able to function as clear minded as possible for an effort that, to be frank, will either see me rather well off financially or will kill me. High risk, long odds, high rewards. Full stop. I felt pretty good for months but the last two-three weeks have been awful to say the least, stuck for hours at a time reliving the worst moments of a wasted life and basically hating all existence. Been feeling much better today but i'm rather disturbed and worn out by having to deal with it all with nothing but thoughts about what will be if everything goes right in the next year.
All i can do now is wait and endure as best i can.
As bad as i thought about the past when i was drinking, things are much worse now. At work for example, i get so caught up in pondering things that happened all the way back to when i was 5 years old or so that i find my job performance suffering quite noticeably. The overwhelming period i'm stuck in is from 14 to 22 when everything was there to be won and i failed quite miserably. Life has been merely waiting for death ever since considering that nothing significant has panned out all these years. Alcohol was a great for me, i'm not going to kid anyone. I couldn't (and still can't) afford any quality medical attention for a legion of physical and mental problems so turning to drink was perfectly natural.
As i mentioned sometime last year, i quit drinking to be able to function as clear minded as possible for an effort that, to be frank, will either see me rather well off financially or will kill me. High risk, long odds, high rewards. Full stop. I felt pretty good for months but the last two-three weeks have been awful to say the least, stuck for hours at a time reliving the worst moments of a wasted life and basically hating all existence. Been feeling much better today but i'm rather disturbed and worn out by having to deal with it all with nothing but thoughts about what will be if everything goes right in the next year.
All i can do now is wait and endure as best i can.
Laozi Old Man
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It does try to gain access thru the thought process and take full control and that is where it must be stopped.
"All expectations are seeds for resentment"
- Zhuang Zhou
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There's a site "Tiny Buddha" where I visit and I have gotten insight. I'm not Buddhist, but I'll take all the help I can get when I'm in times of need re: psyche help.
B2sq1, I consider this to be an ongoing process and am unable to see it as a solvable problem. It's my work in progress and I wish you the best with finding relief in that area. It's a tough one.
“Every day brings a choice: to practice stress or to practice peace.” ~Joan Borysenko
B2sq1, I consider this to be an ongoing process and am unable to see it as a solvable problem. It's my work in progress and I wish you the best with finding relief in that area. It's a tough one.
“Every day brings a choice: to practice stress or to practice peace.” ~Joan Borysenko
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