courage2

Nothing comes naturally to me, which does make it exhausting, yes. If I did what came easy, I'd be dead by now. Anyway, I doubt you're really in the place physically or emotionally to start worrying about the quality of your relationships. You're already several steps ahead of where I started if you have any at all.

Cow

But I is concern about quality of relationship, Bunny, about quality of life in general. Is not good. Is not profound. Is not happy. Is not rich. Is not moving. Is not exciting. Is not connected. Is not meaningful. Is not content. It does no feel good. Life does not feel good. ...Hello, can I gets another slice of pie in here!

Okay so I just catch up on Friday "Real Time with Bill Maher." He talk about Washington Post article that nobody care about that say that 50%, hello 50%, of ALL wildlife has been eradicated in last 40 years. (70% in oceans.) I has lot of existential angst about human species. I really do. Honest, my only hope in life is to try to save own self and eek out some measure of happiness, but at same time, I really think Earth need to shake humans off like fleas. I embarrass of my own species.

courage2

'Xcuse me if I'm obtuse. You & I don't share the same style of humor and I never know when you're joking. You said my approach sounded exhausting so you'd stick to your "performing" approach to relationships. Then you said your quality of life doesn't feel good. What do you plan to do about it?

BTW, almost all my social interactions are still, at best, at the performing level. Actually, I'm not a great performer, so most of my interactions are at the evasive/avoidant level. I'm talking about something rare that I'm prescribing for myself.

Cow

Bunny, I not joking at all. Is both true. Performing is easier (and effective). But not at all fulfilling. What I plan to do? Jesus. Right now, honest, I just trying to survive medical crisis, stay off booze, and hope for random chance to act in my favor.

I guess difference is, since I am good performer and is easy for me, I take that road to get what I want/need, versus being evasive. I kind of has to, since I my own business and plus also I President of my HOA and has to run that business also.

courage2

'k. That's what I thought. You don't feel ready for any more changes now other than putting down the drink.

But I wouldn't wait around for random chance. As a sometime statistician, I can tell you that's not smart. When you really need something, you have to take actions to encourage it to happen. There's always a chance element, but frankly, given something known in the trade as auto-correlation, luck follows luck, and we're none of us particularly strong in the good luck department. So you'd better be looking for a corner of your psyche where you can roll up your sleeves and start cleaning house. Just my opinion, of course.

trachemys

"...luck follows luck, and we're none of us particularly strong in the good luck department."

Oh, I can disagree with that SB. If I were lacking good luck, I'd be dead. But, I was doing everything I could toward that end. Only luck kept me alive.

Cow

Bunny, is not that I "not feel ready" to make change, so much as I just not feel at all. Honest, I not even know what impulse to make change feel like. I has admit openly that I only give up booze cuz I in excruciating pain and gonna die if I don't, so I not even can claim that change as deliberate. I not know what it mean to roll up sleeve and clean house and go after changes. Changes I need is to reverse traumatic brain injury from meth OD and 30+ year of alcoholism and other addictions. I not really think luck and/or intention and/or hard work gonna accomplish that.

But still, I hope sobriety will perk brain up little bit. In honest ... ... I think my prognosis bleak. Even if I not have cancer, I not think I ever be happy or fulfill of mind. But. A cow can dream, right?

silentrun

I didn't actively try to change Cow beyond saying I can't keep drinking. Whatever the reason you quit the changes will start happening. I didn't even realize how screwed up the alcohol had made me. I lost functions I didn't even remember I had. I like how CAL said the universe will send you messages. I like to think of it as a higher version of me leading me out.

courage2

I don't debate your point--figured someone would raise it. There's no doubt we're luckier than many. But we didn't get here to SR through a whole potful of happy experiences and hot success, did we? I didn't. Luck allowed me to survive my bottom(s) but I wouldn't go around expecting that kind of luck to continue.

Re change, once I quit drinking, I could have sat around doing the same stuff I did when I was drinking, except not drinking. In fact I did that, pretty much, for the first year, adding in some AA meetings and trying to get my life back in order. That ate up a year pretty thoroughly, but eventually I started drinking again. I now realize that my habits of mind, in fact my whole belief system about the world, need serious demo & reconstruction.

For instance, sitting at dinner tonight w/my husband whom I've known for 31 years, I found myself thinking, "Maybe he really is a psychopath. Maybe he's lying all the time." 31 years. An ounce of trust? Nope, not really.

I can't stay sober and continue to think the way I do about life. It isn't a question of feeling. I don't know from feelings. It's about belief, value, identity. If I don't work to create value in my existence, it's just a matter of time before I destroy that existence.

Lenina

cow, I understand the brain chemistry part, I think. I know my whole body was upset from the intake of alcohol and lack of decent food and I believe my depression fed my depression. My brain is messed up too, but I was born that way. The whole sleep/wake cycle. the epic dreaming and lack of restorative sleep. Nothing to be done about that. Maybe a lobotomy but I couldn't talk any of my doctors into that. We tried chemicals but again, my body did not handle them well nor did the chemical perform as advertized. (Saw very good PBS special the other night while I wasn't sleeping..."The Dark Side of the Pill" I think it was. about those SRRI's like Prozac and Paxil and zoloft....once again my quirky body chemistry saved me I do believe)

We all talk about feeling exhausted here. Seems to me many of have troubles with that and we have to force performance out to get along in society. I was told early on in therapy that the repression of anger was exhausting. And that repressed rage and anger was at the bottom of my repression. I did have a rather explosive temper when I was much younger and it scared me. I would go almost blind in it.

I knew I didn't want to be like my angry, rage-filled step father so that was one reason I stuffed it.

OK, I have to go do something. I'll be back to finish this thought.

XXOO. L

silentrun

What was the PBS special all about CAL? I am on Effexor right now because my hormones are out of whack. I don't like the idea of solving a hormone problem with an anti depressant but it does seem to be working. It helps my sleep as well.

Lenina

Silent run, the special didn't mention effexor. I took it a very short time and it gave me uncontrollable vomiting. so bad, I would have to give TMI here but suffice it to say I had to have special meds delivered that can't be taken orally as I wasn't able to hold anything in my tummy. If its working for you and your trusted doc agrees this is the best way, do follow his instructions! We cannot and do not give out medical advice. western meds do not work so well for me.

I am too overly tired to continue the poison pappi discussion but will try tomorrow while in Transit.

Yes, dear Cow. You earned the money. Maybe sure he doesn't cheat you out of it,

Love from your CAL. XXOO

Gilmer

Courage, you are undertaking a mighty quest! I applaud you! (I originally typed "appladud!" ). Selfishly speaking, I hope you'll chronicle your findings as you go along!

trachemys

There's the scary part. The AV, the beast, is easy to deal with once you knot it's source and makeup. But, the yin and yang of self...the light and dark..are not so easy.

dwtbd

Amen to that brother, any ideas how to 'fix' that ? Not just generic ones either, I mean a custom , one of a kind, specifically engineered modality for me, I swear( I think) I would follow it to the 't', and I'm almost not kidding.

trachemys

I haven't figured out my own situation yet, dw. When I got the alcohol out of the equation, I found a whole head full of snakes to deal with. Booze just helped me to ignore them.

dwtbd

Trach
Yeah I get that , thx anyway(for nothing).
On alot of levels I believe we are beings of self made souls. I don't know if I need to somehow find the moment(s?)/ingredient where/when I turned against myself or override that part , or if it is possible to override it, or?
I'm sure I am not the only one in this booming buzzing confusion that feels this way, but during my bigest pity parties, I am the only one that feels this(pointing at self) way.
Anyways, working on 'turning my frown upside down" stick smiley emoticon with tongue out here

SoberLeigh

Cow, there is nothing like a ride/drive along Skyline Drive in the Fall. And portions of it take you rather close to Glimmer and Leigh territory.

biminiblue

LeeLee, I had a job in a DNA testing lab a few years back. I had always had problems with SSRIs and most Rx drugs that affect mood. (Hello alcohol, I think I might be looking at you.)

The lab did Pharmacogenetic testing. It's been around for a lot of years, but the drug companies fight the insurance companies to keep it out of mainstream medicine. It is a DNA test that checks the CYP450 chromosome. Just takes a cheek swab. While I worked there, many insurers were beginning to cover the testing - which is pretty expensive for the average Joe. It was becoming widespread accepted knowledge that certain SSRIs could cause suicidal and homicidal ideation that was being acted upon (Columbine school shootings comes to mind- it has been speculated upon) by some people. Testing was also done on deceased people who had committed suicide while taking prescribed depression medication and found a genetic "error" in the CYP Chromosome which is responsible (in the liver) for metabolism of those drugs. If a patient has this genetic deviation, they either cannot metabolize the drug quickly enough (and it builds up and creates a toxic reaction) OR they metabolize it too quickly and the efficacy is lost. Prescribers cannot know this without the DNA test, and as you know, they just prescribe and wait and see how it works. Not cool.

I had the test done. Surprise. I am an Intermediate Metabolizer. No wonder I get horrible side effects from SSRIs (and I'm theorizing, alcohol.) I'm not able to metabolize SSRIs properly and they create a storm in my body. It usually only takes a few days for me to have awful side effects. Stoopid DNA

Look up Pharmacogenetic testing. There are only a handful of companies in the US who do the testing. I was just thrilled to find out there was a real reason.

fini

I can't stay sober and continue to think the way I do about life. It isn't a question of feeling. I don't know from feelings. It's about belief, value, identity. If I don't work to create value in my existence, it's just a matter of time before I destroy that existence.

you're talking about taking steps and changing directions, or, uh, directing some of your steps in a different direction, deliberately, as "work to create value", something along those lines?
if so, then yes, i think that's so. not only think, but experience it so.