Those Who Could Not Stop
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Those Who Could Not Stop
Over the decades I have known a few who drank right up to the time of their death. Many had a string of failures at quitting and just gave up on the idea of a life without alcohol. I think that for some the ability to change the way they felt with alcohol was such a part of their psyche, an ability they did not want to give up.
I think that for a long time I felt the same way. I really gave it up because the withdrawals/detoxes got too bad and the health consequences were starting to pile up. I always wondered why some are able to give it up very early in the progression while others take it almost to the end of the line and some never stop. Is it just strength and will power or much more than that. Any thoughts?
I think that for a long time I felt the same way. I really gave it up because the withdrawals/detoxes got too bad and the health consequences were starting to pile up. I always wondered why some are able to give it up very early in the progression while others take it almost to the end of the line and some never stop. Is it just strength and will power or much more than that. Any thoughts?
orangutan
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,970
This is something I think about a lot, I am just coming back from another fail and my health is at stake but even knowing this I still went back out there. I wonder if I will ever make it , I can get 6 months and 9 months but never really get past the thought of never again being able to drink.
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Originally Posted by aussieblue 
This is something I think about a lot, I am just coming back from another fail and my health is at stake but even knowing this I still went back out there. I wonder if I will ever make it , I can get 6 months and 9 months but never really get past the thought of never again being able to drink.
The only thing I was ever able to come up with that worked was to use the bad memories of the many detoxes I had been through as a tool. I would ask myself If it really made sense to set myself up for yet another go-round with that same nightmare yet again. That coupled with the effects on my health getting worse made it finally sink in that it was a bad idea.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I know this oversimplifies it a bit ... but sometimes that's good for alcoholics. From The Doctor's Opinion:
"They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision."
This summarized my "quitting" up until the point I was really ready to quit. I didn't want to make a firm decision to stop drinking and live life. I wanted the pain and BS to go away, but was not willing to do everything that was suggested. Therefore when the pain and BS started up again, I ultimately used the only tool I had -- alcohol. I was willing to quit drinking ... except for when the pain and BS got great. I was willing to quit drinking ... but wanted to reserve the right to re-evaluate when stuff hit the fan. Never a firm decision that I was going to quit, no matter what, and STAY quit if my rear end fell off.
Today, when I speak with a newcomer, I try to tell him that it will likely work best if he gets rid of any belief whatsoever that he is unique -- he does not have a unique problem, a unique set of circumstances and he will not be able to get sober with a unique program of recovery.
Being unique kills alcoholics.
"They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision."
This summarized my "quitting" up until the point I was really ready to quit. I didn't want to make a firm decision to stop drinking and live life. I wanted the pain and BS to go away, but was not willing to do everything that was suggested. Therefore when the pain and BS started up again, I ultimately used the only tool I had -- alcohol. I was willing to quit drinking ... except for when the pain and BS got great. I was willing to quit drinking ... but wanted to reserve the right to re-evaluate when stuff hit the fan. Never a firm decision that I was going to quit, no matter what, and STAY quit if my rear end fell off.
Today, when I speak with a newcomer, I try to tell him that it will likely work best if he gets rid of any belief whatsoever that he is unique -- he does not have a unique problem, a unique set of circumstances and he will not be able to get sober with a unique program of recovery.
Being unique kills alcoholics.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
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I think the words: Powerful, cunning and baffling have a greater meaning than most realize. Obviously there is more, like lack of self honesty about our drinking and denial sure are strong factors in my identification process.
BE WELL
BE WELL
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I strongly believe there is a willpower factor involved in making the decision to quit, as well as to stay sober long term, no matter what your plan is. I still accept that I cannot control my drinking once I start, but I can control if I take a drink today or not.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Barney( and my mom) said that I am special, I'm the only one like me.
We are all unique people. We each have our subjective experience of objective reality. We do share some commonalities, we can talk about and relate to others our experience and they will reflect and understand similarities but the experience of our selves is that , our own experience, I could describe to you my feeling but you can not feel it, Clinton was wrong on that one.
I dont think telling someone to 'get over' themselves is helpful. It seems an insurmountable goal and if one fails at that , how can one achieve recovery? if this is a requirement?
We are all unique people. We each have our subjective experience of objective reality. We do share some commonalities, we can talk about and relate to others our experience and they will reflect and understand similarities but the experience of our selves is that , our own experience, I could describe to you my feeling but you can not feel it, Clinton was wrong on that one.
I dont think telling someone to 'get over' themselves is helpful. It seems an insurmountable goal and if one fails at that , how can one achieve recovery? if this is a requirement?
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I've rationalized this many times and in my infinate wisdom this is why this is.
We start out in life with X amt of drinks we can or can not take. Think of it as a book of tickets and you get to trade one for 1 drink etc.. When you run out of tickets or start to run out thats when things get real!. Everyone gets a different amt to a degree. Some finish there book up super fast and decide they've had enough early on in life there facing all sorts of issues they ran out of tickets. Others can drink into there 30's 40's 50's etc.. before they face this reality. Others get tons of these tickets and get to drink till it kills em etc...
Being put in prison or in a hospital or loosing your family etc.. none of that impacts how many tickets you got left to use and you will use em. so as soon as circumstnaces permit your back to using em if not sooner.
So you see in my infinite wisdom I've decided we need to find these books of tickets and get rid of them.
and yeah i've put a lot of thought into this theory too maybe i need something better to do with my time LOL.
We start out in life with X amt of drinks we can or can not take. Think of it as a book of tickets and you get to trade one for 1 drink etc.. When you run out of tickets or start to run out thats when things get real!. Everyone gets a different amt to a degree. Some finish there book up super fast and decide they've had enough early on in life there facing all sorts of issues they ran out of tickets. Others can drink into there 30's 40's 50's etc.. before they face this reality. Others get tons of these tickets and get to drink till it kills em etc...
Being put in prison or in a hospital or loosing your family etc.. none of that impacts how many tickets you got left to use and you will use em. so as soon as circumstnaces permit your back to using em if not sooner.
So you see in my infinite wisdom I've decided we need to find these books of tickets and get rid of them.
and yeah i've put a lot of thought into this theory too maybe i need something better to do with my time LOL.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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a drunk buddy of mine when i was having my panic attacks at the end of my drinking carreer he too also was having the same issues. we both sat there in our drunken stuper wondering if they where poisoning our beer and maybe we should change brands or make our own..... then we thought na couldnt be that if that where true all our friends would have the same issues. All we really where doing was trying to figure out how to keep our habit going even tho our bodies where telling us ENOUGH!
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
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zjw lol I had a similar thought, had to get rid of ticket or I would have used them up.
Never thought someone was poisoning my drinks. But the insanity at the end was crippling. It came down to a fight in my head, one side knew I had to stop the other side tried to convince that sobriety would be depressing and painful enough to just end it all and be done with it.
I would wake up from another drunk and hear a faint voice saying 'well this may suck, but at least I didn't blow my brains out" a hellish either/or.
It was almost enough to convince myself I was actually insane. Must have been getting near the stub end of that book.
Never thought someone was poisoning my drinks. But the insanity at the end was crippling. It came down to a fight in my head, one side knew I had to stop the other side tried to convince that sobriety would be depressing and painful enough to just end it all and be done with it.
I would wake up from another drunk and hear a faint voice saying 'well this may suck, but at least I didn't blow my brains out" a hellish either/or.
It was almost enough to convince myself I was actually insane. Must have been getting near the stub end of that book.
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Stopping and staying stopped requires willpower, no doubt.
For me it also means changing how I view life and people. I had to accept that I was not God. I have little control over the way the world runs and/or the way my life unfolds. The parts I can control are my reactions to what happens around me, and I can choose what to place importance and thought into. I have 24 hours a day, just like everyone else and I can choose what I think about and what I act upon. The past is gone - even this morning is gone. I don't dwell on my mistakes and I don't dwell on my perception of the mistakes of others.
For me it also means changing how I view life and people. I had to accept that I was not God. I have little control over the way the world runs and/or the way my life unfolds. The parts I can control are my reactions to what happens around me, and I can choose what to place importance and thought into. I have 24 hours a day, just like everyone else and I can choose what I think about and what I act upon. The past is gone - even this morning is gone. I don't dwell on my mistakes and I don't dwell on my perception of the mistakes of others.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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In my experience, in order to truly change you first have to accept that the situation (can't control my drinking) is not going to change, and that it will get worse unless action (quitting) is taken.
For example people usually won't quit until they've made a lot of attempts at moderation/quitting, seen a big increase in their tolerance and consumption, started having or are actively having health, financial, emotional, professional, relationship problems, etc.
The problems above are enough to help most people begin to accept that their relationship with alcohol is not improving, and is worsening. The acceptance of alcohols consequences is the first step toward change, and is more than enough to get someone started on the path of recovery. How that recovery goes is then dependent on the ability to accept those consequences as true, even though the drink is gone.
I'm not sure about the ones who keep drinking until the end, but it seems to me that they must have told themselves consequences be damned, this is how it's going to end. Sad way to go.
For example people usually won't quit until they've made a lot of attempts at moderation/quitting, seen a big increase in their tolerance and consumption, started having or are actively having health, financial, emotional, professional, relationship problems, etc.
The problems above are enough to help most people begin to accept that their relationship with alcohol is not improving, and is worsening. The acceptance of alcohols consequences is the first step toward change, and is more than enough to get someone started on the path of recovery. How that recovery goes is then dependent on the ability to accept those consequences as true, even though the drink is gone.
I'm not sure about the ones who keep drinking until the end, but it seems to me that they must have told themselves consequences be damned, this is how it's going to end. Sad way to go.
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The craziest part of all of this is that if the truth be told there are times I miss having the ability to instantly change the way I feel with alcohol. I think using pain killers for a week after a resent surgery rekindled some of those old feelings. It is something how the mind holds on to the good parts of it and pushes all the bad stuff to the background. Even after over 6 years of quitting my mind still does that.
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Some will die before admitting defeat.
One more attempt to prove they can drink like a normal person.
The progressive nature of alcoholism, ensures this belief to be false.
They find no sufficient substitute for alcohol.
The end result is predictable.
One more attempt to prove they can drink like a normal person.
The progressive nature of alcoholism, ensures this belief to be false.
They find no sufficient substitute for alcohol.
The end result is predictable.
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Originally Posted by whalebelow2
Some will die before admitting defeat.
One more attempt to prove they can drink like a normal person.
The progressive nature of alcoholism, ensures this belief to be false.
They find no sufficient substitute for alcohol.
The end result is predictable.
One more attempt to prove they can drink like a normal person.
The progressive nature of alcoholism, ensures this belief to be false.
They find no sufficient substitute for alcohol.
The end result is predictable.
One sentence in the above post "They found no sufficient substitute for alcohol" rings true for me. I don't think it was about accepting defeat or wanting to drink like a normal person. I knew I was defeated and really didn't give drinking like a normal person much thought. I think many people fall prey to not finding a substitute, don't know that I ever really found one but this is what kept me drinking for decades. The pain greatly outweighing the pleasure was what made me finally throw in the towel.
orangutan
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I'ts never been about being a normal drinker for me either, I was out there to get smashed , I wanted the relief that only alcohol could give me. So I suppose that the substitute thing is my problem too when it comes to staying sober long term.
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High Spirit (the spiritual nature of the 12 steps) vs Low Spirit (alcohol, the strongest alcoholic beverages being called just that "Spirits")
High spirit will give you sobriety, low spirit will give you .... well you both know how that goes.
Hence it is mentioned in the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" that a sufficient substitute has been found & then clear cut instructions follow on how to obtain it.
Of course, whether you want it or not is 100% up to you.
High spirit will give you sobriety, low spirit will give you .... well you both know how that goes.
Hence it is mentioned in the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" that a sufficient substitute has been found & then clear cut instructions follow on how to obtain it.
Of course, whether you want it or not is 100% up to you.
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Originally Posted by dwtbd
zjw lol I had a similar thought, had to get rid of ticket or I would have used them up.
Never thought someone was poisoning my drinks. But the insanity at the end was crippling. It came down to a fight in my head, one side knew I had to stop the other side tried to convince that sobriety would be depressing and painful enough to just end it all and be done with it.
I would wake up from another drunk and hear a faint voice saying 'well this may suck, but at least I didn't blow my brains out" a hellish either/or.
It was almost enough to convince myself I was actually insane. Must have been getting near the stub end of that book.
Never thought someone was poisoning my drinks. But the insanity at the end was crippling. It came down to a fight in my head, one side knew I had to stop the other side tried to convince that sobriety would be depressing and painful enough to just end it all and be done with it.
I would wake up from another drunk and hear a faint voice saying 'well this may suck, but at least I didn't blow my brains out" a hellish either/or.
It was almost enough to convince myself I was actually insane. Must have been getting near the stub end of that book.
YEP i questioned my sanity a lot in the end. If i had a revolver next to my alarm clock when the alarm went off for work in the morning many of mornings I would have rather grabbed the revolver and finished myself off hten hit the snooze button on the alarm.
and as far as my ticketing system I think alcoholics are great a sitting around conjuring up whatever to solve wtvr problem. Put a bunch of alcoholics in a room recovering or not and tell them to solve world peace they'd probably do it too we love to sit around and solve everyone elses problems.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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For myself I think I just became desensitized to situation. Yeah everything that went along with it sucked but that was just the way it was. That was just my life and I couldn't figure out how to change. I didn't relate the emotional and mental problems I was having to the alcohol because after all I felt like it was the only time during the day I got to feel good. Even if you don't have a thinking problem when you start drinking at high levels like that is toxic to the brain and will start to do damage. Damage to the very parts that you need to pull yourself out of the spin.
I had a moment in time that I just saw through it all. That caused enough fear in me that I knew quitting was how it had to be. Before that moment I imagine quitting would have seemed useless to me.
I had a moment in time that I just saw through it all. That caused enough fear in me that I knew quitting was how it had to be. Before that moment I imagine quitting would have seemed useless to me.
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