Doctors endorsed cigarettes back in the day. Now we know it causes cancer. Dont fool yourself!

many AA old timers here in San Diego
urge the newcomer if serious to do 90 in 90

gives one a good taste of sobriety and AA

MM

What kind of people do feel need to have the disease model offered as an easier explanation of their addiction, and how do you determine which ones they are?

Ok, I missed this 'wide acceptance due to increased research'. I stated the sources that formed my point of view. What you referring to, specifically? I'll read your references and learn from them. And 'more effective long term'? How do you support that one?

You're correct. In my location there is one SMART meeting and probably 75 to 100 AA meetings available each week. And I'm sure there are a number of out-patient groups available. Fortunately, I've never had to make a choice between jail or some type of meeting attendance. It remains to be seen if the secular groups will grow or not.

What happens on day 91? Graduated!!!

Some will stay sober

MM

In my county, those who have committed a crime and are found or plead guilty complete an investigatory survey before being sentenced and some of the questions revolve around alcohol and drug abuse/dependence. Many non-violent offenders who are found to have a substance problem are offered "treatment in lieu" which normally consists of outpatient treatment (at taxpayer cost) which normally requires attending 2 or more AA meetings per week (free to all!)
I can appreciate that someone in trouble with the law may not like their choices; AA or jail, but they do have a choice.

Many people everywhere urge 90 in 90 in my experience, but none are court ordered to 90 in 90, which was my point.

Thanks but I'm not going to present a seminar on addiction research. Medical studies are all over the Internet (more current than 15 years ago) for anyone interested to access.
Congratulations on your self-administered recovery. My experience is that this is not typically successful. The odds are not good.
Also, explaining the "disease" concept seems to give recovering addicts more of an understanding that their condition is not necessarily caused by a character flaw or being a bad person. And it drives home the point that the nature of the disease almost always prevents them from returning to casual or recreational use of their substance of choice. It doesn't get cured but it must continue to be controlled like any chronic affliction.

I won't question your experience, but remind you that it is nothing but anecdotal, providing no information about a larger population. I will point out that, contrary to your statement that self recovery is the exception, it is in fact the norm. 80% of alcoholics quit without a recovery program. They stopped drinking and got on with their lives. I am sure you can find the source for this statement, should you choose to do so.

Addiction can be seen as a disease, I suppose, or it can be seen as a character flaw or being a bad person, both conditions purportedly treatable by spiritual means. There is an obvious flaw in this statement though, and that this either or statement is not exhaustive, there are other ways of seeing alcoholism. A third option of viewing it as a problematic behavior is ultimately empowering and provides the simplest way forward.

Wow, with 80% of the alcoholics recovering, there shouldnt be such a wide-spread society out there that is still drinking, 80% should have recovered on their own. And the courts/prisons shouldnt be packed full, because most of the problems of people hittin the jail system is from addictions.

The ones in court and prisons? That would be part of your 20% right there.

If only that was true (80% successfully quit on their own), it would be a wonderful world.
However it's not. At least the world in which I live.
But, on the other hand, the Canadians I've known seem to have a very optimistic outlook on life.

Very few quit on their own, I know that for a fact. I see it in the numerous sponsees that I sponsor. They want to quit, They need to quit......yet some of them dont quit!!!! All I have to do is go to an AA room and look around, if that 80% were true, then 8 out of 10 people would recover, but they dont. Very few recover on their own. The courts know this, multi-national multi-billion dollar corperations know this.

There seems to e some kind of communication breakdown here. freshstart57 is correct with the 80% recovering without any program at all, but perhaps the sentence should read..............: 80% of those who have recovered, did so without any program.

Sorry freshstart57, if this is not what you meant; it's what I've read......but plz, don't ask me where; I'm too old, and my memory sucks at times.

(o:
NoelleR

NoelleR, you are both perceptive and precise. That is exactly what I should have said, as that is what I meant. Of those who quit, most do without a formal program.