tomsteve

at one time I was powerless. but I found a power greater than me to help me, one who has all power.
today I have the power of choice of whether or not I take the next drink, but it will be the only one I have a choice over.

SoberLife2014

I've thought about this a lot because I did both AA and AVRT and AVRT has worked a lot better for me.

I had a difficult time in AA because, while I do have a higher power, that higher power doesn't exactly answer my prayers. Even if I ask REALLY nicely. Too many times I'd kneel down on my knees like everyone told me too, and I'd pray my heart out, but it didn't work. My obsession wasn't lifted and really it just made me mad. Handing everything over to my HP wasn't working. I thought that was all you had to do. Just hand it on over and everything would be fine. I even said "Here God, here you go. It's all yours". By the time I was calling people it was too late. I was already at that "planning" stage of relapse. I think it's a wonderful program, it just didn't work for me.

I realized I had to be more proactive with cravings. I had to realize that I would have cravings and that I'd have to do something about them waaay before they got out of hand. I had to take responsibility for my actions. I had to take control of me. I believe that I DON'T have control over my AV or lizard brain, but I DO have control over how I respond to it. Maybe my HP helped me with all of that, who knows. All I know is that I can't say that I'm powerless over alcohol. Just doesn't work for me.

Carlotta

I voted that I am powerless over alcohol.
As a sober alcoholic I do have a choice today so the issue is irrelevant ..as long as I don't pick up the first one I m not powerless..but as a friend and family member I am powerless.
I cannot control my loved ones alcoholism and I can't stop them from destroying their lives
I also have come to accept that in any relationship with an active alcoholic, I ll always take second place after alcohol.

Soberpotamus

Robby, Freshstart, and Mesa all articulated very well my thoughts on this. Anattaboy too

I voted "not" but it's a little more complicated than a simple "no." Not powerless over any substance... actually empowered to refuse the drink. However, I'm powerless in a sense of being an addict. I have that certain blend or amalgamation of what it takes to be an alcoholic. Not sure that will ever go away. But I am not powerless to wine. I don't drink it.

Soberpotamus

I also used them both. And I'm seeing now that the AVRT technique, since it was intuitive for me anyway, has formed the solid base for me in sobriety. But I went to AA at the suggestion of the IOP staff. I knew I needed and wanted to be around others in recovery. Especially early on. I ended up not going back to meetings after a while, but I still read the literature. Somehow it works... using both philosophies. I've managed to, anyway. I guess I felt AVRT didn't address some of the repair of the psychological, emotional... and dare I say, spiritual fall out of addiction... because AVRT is strictly about the mechanics of not drinking, and being a non-drinker. I found that I don't have to swallow things in AA that don't make sense to me. And I've found that I never could feel "powerless" not to take the first drink, nor do I have a "higher power" other than my "higher consciousness"... which is probably my sense of ethics or morality, or my conscience. The collective wisdom of those who are successful in recovery was my "higher power" as well.

Overall, I'm so glad I used a multiple program approach. I wouldn't have had it any other way

SoberLife2014

I agree with this. I found things useful in both programs. I actually inadvertently found myself doing some of the steps as I was trying to change some of my "stinking thinking" that lead me to drink in the first place. Yep, there I was doing an inventory. Just like the big book suggested.

I also agree with what a lot of other people said about being powerless after taking a drink or during drinking. That's why I can't moderate. In that sense, I am powerless over alcohol. I can't control it and drink like a "normal drinker". I can only avoid it or find myself buried in a bottle.

readerbaby71

I don't really do polls, and I don't do powerless. If anything I feel empowered and in control over alcohol and my life since I quit drinking. The Women for Sobriety program and statements have helped me a lot.

"NEW LIFE" ACCEPTANCE PROGRAM

1. I have a life-threatening problem that once had me.

I now take charge of my life and my disease. I accept the responsibility.

2. Negative thoughts destroy only myself.

My first conscious sober act must be to remove negativity from my life.

3. Happiness is a habit I will develop.

Happiness is created, not waited for.

4. Problems bother me only to the degree I permit them to.

I now better understand my problems and do not permit problems to overwhelm me.

5. I am what I think.

I am a capable, competent, caring, compassionate woman.

6. Life can be ordinary or it can be great.

Greatness is mine by a conscious effort.

7. Love can change the course of my world.

Caring becomes all important.

8. The fundamental object of life is emotional and spiritual growth.

Daily I put my life into a proper order, knowing which are the priorities.

9. The past is gone forever.

No longer will I be victimized by the past, I am a new person.

10. All love given returns.

I will learn to know that others love me.

11. Enthusiasm is my daily exercise.

I treasure all moments of my new life.

12. I am a competent woman and have much to give life.

This is what I am and I shall know it always.

13. I am responsible for myself and for my actions.

I am in charge of my mind, my thoughts, and my life.

(c) 1976, 1987, 1993, 2011

To make the Program effective for you, arise each morning fifteen minutes earlier than usual and go over the Thirteen Affirmations. Then begin to think about each one by itself. Take one Statement and use it consciously all day. At the end of the day review the use of it and what effects it had that day for you and your actions.

Copyright 1999 Women For Sobriety, Inc. All rights reserved.

KissMyTiara

If an alcoholic were powerless over alcohol then no one would ever recover. They would remain powerless forever. So I say no.

aborkie

This is exactly how I feel about it.

Drinking was fun for me and there came a point where I made a choice to stop.

dwtbd

I wouldn't say that drinking was fun for me, though I felt that at times it made some things or activities seem more fun.
My problem was that I enjoyed/felt a real deep pleasure from being drunk. The first few would ignite a sensation of like an almost unreachable itch. Sucumbing to the desire to quell the 'itch' was why I had to quit. Trying to drink to the point that was satisfying was practically impossible.

PurpleKnight

Parting ways with alcohol was for the best, it handed the keys to my own life back!!

anattaboy

I'm more powerless over these polls!

Stoogy

I voted no, I am only powerless if I start and I won't.

Grungehead

It sounds like you are describing step 3, however there are 12 steps so "handing it on over" and not doing the work required in steps 4-9 will not yield the desired results.

IMO this is another one of those "semantics" threads were there can be different interpretations of what a word/phrase means. I see the word obsession and the word AV to be very similar in meaning. I think most can agree that it is very difficult to stay sober if you are constantly obsessing over alcohol or if your AV is on your shoulder screaming at you all of the time. Being in this state is what being powerless means to me. It doesn't even mean that I will drink every time, but as long as the obsession is there or the AV never shuts up I am going to eventually drink.

Finding a way to remove the obsession or quiet the AV is a way to rid alcohol of it's power over me. I happen to do that through the steps, but I believe that other successful recovery programs achieve the same goal using different methods.

Also if you read the first step it states that "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable". Notice that the first step is written in the past tense. It doesn't say we are powerless -- our lives are unmanageable.

When I came to AA I was powerless over alcohol. I had an honest and sincere desire to quit but my obsession/AV would wear down my resolve every time. Through working the steps I have tapped into a power source which has removed my obsession with alcohol, or put another way that power source has stuffed a sock in the AV's mouth and kicked him to the curb.

RobbyRobot

Working with this definition of powerless -- "without ability, influence, or power" over alcohol. Interestingly enough, with respect to AA's BB, the word "powerless" only occurs in the wording of the sentence of Step 1. And no where else that I know of anyways. Many people not surprisingly have distinct opinions with respect to the word "powerless" in and out of AA.

When I first began drinking, the whole point was to feel differently about myself and my life. Early on I couldn't have cared any less about being or not being powerless, powerful, or anything in between. I felt different, and not always better either, but always different with a buzz on than with not. I easily became addicted to this difference without protest. By the time I figured out what had really happened addiction wise to me, it was already to late for any kind of remedy except to completely quit. *I didn't really want to quit though. Is this powerlessness?*

So, since I didn't quit even then, eventually that same buzz became something else altogether. More like a rehearsed thing, an unwelcome thing, a bothersome thing - that is until I learned how to drink past that barrier and get into a blackout drunkenness. This was not only different, this also gave me a free ride into oblivion. When a guy drinks this way, and longs for it, consequences become almost meaningless. It goes without saying my life quickly deconstructed as my alcoholism / drinking became more chronic.

When I failed at quitting again and again, drinking or not drinking, my life remained unmanageable by me. Back in my day, no matter my efforts at life, I always ended up with a bottle getting as drunk as I could manage. Alcohol did for me what I seemed unable to do for myself: create feelings I couldn't otherwise experience.*It was disastrous I cared more about being drunk than I cared about not being drunk. Is this powerlessness?*

For me anyways, eventually drinking alcohol was like drinking liquid empowerment. In my last years, quitting seemed impossible. I felt totally powerless without alcohol. Quitting made little sense to me. I just didn't want to die drunk, and would have kept drinking if I could have figured out how to stay alive while staying drunk. I couldn't though, and as I died some more with alcohol, I became even more entrenched into wanting to stay drunk because it was easy to forget about everything while drunk. Is this an unmanageable life?

My alcoholism with or without drinking is unmanageable by me. Alcoholism surpasses my abilities and resourcefulness. Alcoholism beat me stupid again and again. I am indeed powerless against, over, with, under, whatever and so on with respect to my alcoholism.

*Alcohol itself the drink is unimportant to me.* I'm neither powerless or powerful over alcohol. Either way, alcohol and I don't have a relationship anymore, lol. Alcohol the drink, and alcoholism the illness are not the same thing whatsoever. It wasn't alcohol the drink that was killing me. Alcoholism the illness was what was killing me. Quitting drinking just gave me a fair chance to learn how to live a manageable life with my *arrested alcoholism*.

tnman1967

Exactly my thoughts, I had an episode today with AV kicking in, I decided not to drink, so no I'm not powerless but an Alcoholic regardless if that make sense.

Soberwolf

Let's try.. We are all alcoholics agreed ?

If we drink we are powerless we will drink again

So today i don't drink does that mean my power is stronger than alcohol's unnatural power

Of course not

If i try to get in to a fight with this unnatural power even with all the power I have I will lose

I'm powerless then so I'm powerless now

Hope this helps

miamifella

I am myself individually powerless over alcohol and drugs. However, I do not believe that all people are powerless or that we need divine intervention. Too many people have helped me move beyond cravings and addiction for me ever to sincerely do the first step in 12-step recovery. But I do know that I myself, alone am powerless. But I do think that with other earthly human beings' help, I am not.

Boleo

Same here. Since I no longer think about drinking and I no longer have to think about not-drinking, the whole powerless debate is an outside issue.

Yes had no power of choice while I was actively drinking. Nor do I need the power of choice now that I have had the obsession lifted out of me (root and branch).

But why should I worry about choice in the matter when I don't even need to make any choice in the first place. Sobriety is now my natural state of mind and my default way of life.

Even if I could get the power of choice back, it would be a HUGE step backwards for me to have to choose not-drinking ODAAT. Like trading a four-lane bridge in for a tight-rope.

jaynie04

Getting sober has been one of the most powerful experiences in my life. In turn, I feel powerful. When I was stuck on the bridge…that was a time in my life that I felt hopeless and powerless.

I feel that I am being very respectful of myself by choosing the right path. In turn, this trickles down to everyone in my life. It is a win/win.

I was afraid at first that there would be a backlash, that this feeling of standing my ground would dissipate. It hasn't, it has gained traction. I now see my life as altered permanently, before and after.

So, no, I would not say I am powerless. I would say sobriety has empowered me.