Robin Williams
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This thread bothers me inasmuch as I become irked when others become soothsayers of the why's of another persons suicide. I'm speaking for myself here, and yet I'm also somewhat speaking for those who have seriously contemplated suicide at whatever time and for whatever reasons in their own lives.
It is not enough to simply suggest being an addict and being depressed is what caused Robin to take his own life. It is not enough to simply suggest some others who are also addicted and depressed will as well take their own lives too. This kind of crystal ball gazing may make statistical sense, but such claims cast meaningless shadows. More persons who are addicted and depressed do not take their own lives comparably with those who do.
To say some of us (alcoholics/addicts/depressed people) will die by our own hand misses the mark. Those who successfully suicide are in an entirely different league than those who don't attempt, or don't succeed.
IMO, it takes something more than a mixture of addiction and/or depression for a person to successfully take their own life.
How many persons have that something?
Whatever the tipping point is, its not an exact something that can be adequately quantized, sufficiently analysed, and thereafter generalized for at risk populations.
And it's what is important to me too. Something very extreme in Robin's psyche unfortunately happened. How sad for everyone who loved Robin the man and the comic in the man.
It is not enough to simply suggest being an addict and being depressed is what caused Robin to take his own life. It is not enough to simply suggest some others who are also addicted and depressed will as well take their own lives too. This kind of crystal ball gazing may make statistical sense, but such claims cast meaningless shadows. More persons who are addicted and depressed do not take their own lives comparably with those who do.
To say some of us (alcoholics/addicts/depressed people) will die by our own hand misses the mark. Those who successfully suicide are in an entirely different league than those who don't attempt, or don't succeed.
IMO, it takes something more than a mixture of addiction and/or depression for a person to successfully take their own life.
How many persons have that something?
Whatever the tipping point is, its not an exact something that can be adequately quantized, sufficiently analysed, and thereafter generalized for at risk populations.
Originally Posted by Dee74 
I understand the drive to pull meaning from this, or even a cautionary tale....but to me, a man has died too young too soon, leaving behind people who loved him.
That's the important thing here, to me?
D
That's the important thing here, to me?
D
And it's what is important to me too. Something very extreme in Robin's psyche unfortunately happened. How sad for everyone who loved Robin the man and the comic in the man.
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I may have missed something (I am still struggling), but I thought dSober clarified his earlier points (that I also was uncomfortable with, and about to chime in on). I do agree that there is a chance his death will bring new attention to substance abuse and depression, so yeah, there may be a silver lining.
I feel it's important to try to stay positive at times like these. Williams was an inspiration to me my entire life, and I definitely took it hard. I was already halfway into a bender when I heard the news. It definitely extended it by a few drinks, but there's no doubt I wouldve been hurting bad, drinks or no drinks.
I just came back from my first AA meeting. I'm gonna post about that in a new thread in a bit. I'm no expert, to me, the thing to take away is that for some people, as talented, and beloved, and successful as they are.... substance abuse and/or depression can take anyone down. It's important to reach out, love one another, look out for one another, and even when people put up walls, sometimes the little gestures that show you are there and you care can make all the difference.
I feel it's important to try to stay positive at times like these. Williams was an inspiration to me my entire life, and I definitely took it hard. I was already halfway into a bender when I heard the news. It definitely extended it by a few drinks, but there's no doubt I wouldve been hurting bad, drinks or no drinks.
I just came back from my first AA meeting. I'm gonna post about that in a new thread in a bit. I'm no expert, to me, the thing to take away is that for some people, as talented, and beloved, and successful as they are.... substance abuse and/or depression can take anyone down. It's important to reach out, love one another, look out for one another, and even when people put up walls, sometimes the little gestures that show you are there and you care can make all the difference.
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I am troubled by this thread. But like a moth drawn to a flame feel the need to comment. As I write, I am tearing up watching 20/20 tribute to Robin Williams. Nobody here knows the pain he was in when he made the choices he made. To try is an act of arrogance and ego in its simplest form.
I did not know Robin Williams. But I feel empathy because I have been quite close to making some of those same choices. To loose a talent too soon is sad, but deserving of celebration of a life lived. Instead of trying to diminish the man's values by comparing why not celebrate the successes and empathize with the struggles?
I did not know Robin Williams. But I feel empathy because I have been quite close to making some of those same choices. To loose a talent too soon is sad, but deserving of celebration of a life lived. Instead of trying to diminish the man's values by comparing why not celebrate the successes and empathize with the struggles?
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You start to wonder, if Robin f***ing Williams can't make it, what chance do the rest of us have?
he wasn't anyone special as far as alcoholism is concerned.
so whether he "made" it or not has no bearing whatsoever on your or my chances.
he may have had better/easier access to treatment, but that doesn't in and of itself have much to do with your or my chances, either.
my chances aren't any better or worse whether RW made it or not or whether you make it or not.
your and my chances, i think, might be greatly increased by what we do in and with our sober time.
he wasn't anyone special as far as alcoholism is concerned.
so whether he "made" it or not has no bearing whatsoever on your or my chances.
he may have had better/easier access to treatment, but that doesn't in and of itself have much to do with your or my chances, either.
my chances aren't any better or worse whether RW made it or not or whether you make it or not.
your and my chances, i think, might be greatly increased by what we do in and with our sober time.
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Appearances Can Be Deceiving
One of several Sites I'm a Moderator on has this Source below posted almost daily. This Article I found on Williams is very insightful IMO. There are other Links below the Article.
Regularly, Threads started here are titled something like 'I'm a POS'. Or, 'I Feel Like Such A Failure'. Williams estimated Net Worth of ~$50 Million did not immunize him against such feelings, apparently. I doubt that any of us face ~$30 Million Divorce Settlements. Pressures are what we think they are, and that appears to be the case with Williams. I have no expectation that Williams odds of making it out alive are any different based solely on his success, or address.
I was smack dab in Boulder's invasive Drug/Alcohol Scene circa '76 on, and can attest to William's quote [paraphrased]: 'Cocaine is God's way of telling you you have too much Money'.
Robin Williams Wrestled Demons ~ The Daily Mail
Polling the numerous GPS locations we live at would establish that we former and active Addicts are everywhere. Even Seaside in Tiburon California. Indeed, an Article I read put the most severe Meth problems in - wait for it - relatively Rural areas. Post #26 in this Thread rings true to me.
How Much Meth Does Your State Cook?
---------
Regularly, Threads started here are titled something like 'I'm a POS'. Or, 'I Feel Like Such A Failure'. Williams estimated Net Worth of ~$50 Million did not immunize him against such feelings, apparently. I doubt that any of us face ~$30 Million Divorce Settlements. Pressures are what we think they are, and that appears to be the case with Williams. I have no expectation that Williams odds of making it out alive are any different based solely on his success, or address.
I was smack dab in Boulder's invasive Drug/Alcohol Scene circa '76 on, and can attest to William's quote [paraphrased]: 'Cocaine is God's way of telling you you have too much Money'.
Robin Williams Wrestled Demons ~ The Daily Mail
Polling the numerous GPS locations we live at would establish that we former and active Addicts are everywhere. Even Seaside in Tiburon California. Indeed, an Article I read put the most severe Meth problems in - wait for it - relatively Rural areas. Post #26 in this Thread rings true to me.
How Much Meth Does Your State Cook?
---------
Recovered from Hopeless State
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Everyone I've heard comment on Robin Williams' life, and death... people who knew him, has commented positively on his great humanitarianism. I believe he would want to help others with the same, or similar, diseases. I'm going to let him and help him, as best I can. I don't think he would want his death to be swept under the carpet of denial. My daughter, a pretty active alcoholic at this point, was watching one of his movies when I came home from work last night. What each of us does, is of course, our own choice.
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Did I mention... My daughter's boyfriend lives with us. He is not an addict but is deeply emotionally disturbed by abandonment issues in his childhood. He and I found my daughter twice in the last year, locked in the bathroom not answering. Once, after breaking down the door, we found her lying completely submerged in an overflowing tub. The other, she was lying in a pool of blood on the floor with a large cut in one of her wrists. I considered drinking myself to death on several occasions. In all my many years of extremely heavy drinking, I never once vomited. I might have pulled it off if not for the more scary thought of abandoning my children. If we can take a lesson, or several, from Robin, I'm all for it.
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By the way, when I look in Robin's eyes (in the picture in the OP), I see a very thoughtful, very penetrating, very insightful man who has a great deal of difficulty dealing with the thoughts racing through his brain in rapid fire succession.
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Originally Posted by dSober
By the way, when I look in Robin's eyes (in the picture in the OP), I see a very thoughtful, very penetrating, very insightful man who has a great deal of difficulty dealing with the thoughts racing through his brain in rapid fire succession.
i have to accept Williams is not me, and i dont know him nor how his brain works
when it comes to suicide its a pretty drastic step, those who will commit suicide will do it and no one will stop them either as no one will know about it until its to late and its done
there is no answer for it in my head so i just stop looking for one and get back to things i can do something about namely ME.
i dont even feel sorry for him if i am honest as i dont feel sorry for anyone who wastes there life like that.
i go back to my son and all the kids out there dying today who would love to be alive today and thats the sadness of it all in my eyes
i think to myself why carnt people swap lives so those who want out of it, can give there life to someone who wants to live ?
other than that his suicide is just one of many that will happen over this coming year for many people who just can not live on anymore its just such a waste of life
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This man's eyes, on the other hand, I don't care to look into:
Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh argued Tuesday that Robin Williams committed suicide because of his “leftist world view.”
“What is the left’s world view in general?” Mr. Limbaugh asked listeners. “If you had to attach, not a philosophy, but an attitude to a leftist world view. It’s one of pessimism, and darkness, sadness. They’re never happy, are they?”
Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh argued Tuesday that Robin Williams committed suicide because of his “leftist world view.”
“What is the left’s world view in general?” Mr. Limbaugh asked listeners. “If you had to attach, not a philosophy, but an attitude to a leftist world view. It’s one of pessimism, and darkness, sadness. They’re never happy, are they?”
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Originally Posted by desypete
trying to read other peoples minds is not good for me
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Psychiatrists don't actually read minds tho. They're as much a detective as they are a doctor - or at least the good ones are.
Trying to guess a persons state of mental health, or assuming the reasons why they did something is very different to psycho analysis, dS, yeah?
As for politics, I think we're in deep enough here.
Lets leave that out
D
Trying to guess a persons state of mental health, or assuming the reasons why they did something is very different to psycho analysis, dS, yeah?
As for politics, I think we're in deep enough here.
Lets leave that out
D
Keeping it simple!
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Psychiatrists don't actually read minds tho.
. And yes I am being sarcastic! LOL
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Psychiatrists As for politics, I think we're in deep enough here.
Lets leave that out
D
Lets leave that out
D
Just had a great rockin' & rollin', spiritual ride in to work. Got a minute to kill while the coffee's brewin'. Sorry, can't resist deep... How's this?:
"Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the Son but mama, that's where the fun is."
or
"I ain't no fortunate one."
Or am I?
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Psychiatrists don't actually read minds tho. They're as much a detective as they are a doctor - or at least the good ones are.
Trying to guess a persons state of mental health, or assuming the reasons why they did something is very different to psycho analysis, dS, yeah?
As for politics, I think we're in deep enough here.
Lets leave that out
D
Trying to guess a persons state of mental health, or assuming the reasons why they did something is very different to psycho analysis, dS, yeah?
As for politics, I think we're in deep enough here.
Lets leave that out
D
as for the drs trying to be detectives i can go along with that however i just know for me if i try to understand something that just is how it is
then i can drive myself nuts for days if not weeks trying to figure out an answer when there isnt one
i wondered why he took his own life but then i got my answer, because he did
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I've heard it said, and I agree that no alcoholic dies in vain. We're told that learning to laugh at ourselves is a gift and I agree with that too, however, I read posts here all the time about people who've gone back out and are back AGAIN. The question in my mind is, how many times does a person have to fail before he figures, "what the hell, why should I keep trying? I'm a loser". Williams covered a lot of feelings up with his comedy. To me, joking about going "back" into treatment isn't the right attitude. Alcoholism/addiction is serious business and should be treated as such. I laugh at some of the things I did when drinking, but the idea of taking that next drink is no joke to me. I read in How It Works that the inability to be honest with oneself is deadly. So, whether someone drinks himself to death or hangs himself with a belt, it's all suicide. Drinking just takes a little longer.
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Originally Posted by Music
Williams covered a lot of feelings up with his comedy. To me, joking about going "back" into treatment isn't the right attitude. Alcoholism/addiction is serious business and should be treated as such. I laugh at some of the things I did when drinking, but the idea of taking that next drink is no joke to me.
Addiction and recovery is indeed serious and yet there is room enough for an ability to laugh at ourselves, yeah?
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some of the funniest people i know in aa have lived lives that would make most people weep,
one fellow suffered his mum being murdered and his own daughter being raped of course its some time ago now but when he shares about this in meetings and how he stayed sober it certainly makes people sit up and take notice
he is one of my closest friends in aa and his sense of humor is total madcap like mine and i have said to him many times that his story of suffering and his humor are things that kept me going at times and its true
when i was group leader i had a farting noise as my ring tone on my mobile, that little bugger would ring my phone in the meeting when the moments silence was in progress
if i hadnt put it on silent then the noise would be heard and some members certainly didnt find it funny : ) but i would be in fits of laughter trying to open the meeting he is a star in my eyes with his madcap humour and of course i do the same to him when we meet up in meetings which isnt very often these days as we tend to end up leaving the meeting in fits of laughter standing outside not able to go back in in case we disturb the meeting, so we tend to go to different meetings : )
i didnt get sober to be miserable and life can dam well hurt me enough as it is so its nice to have some humor around but probably not as mad cap as mine nor some of my friends as we are like great big kids really : )
one fellow suffered his mum being murdered and his own daughter being raped of course its some time ago now but when he shares about this in meetings and how he stayed sober it certainly makes people sit up and take notice
he is one of my closest friends in aa and his sense of humor is total madcap like mine and i have said to him many times that his story of suffering and his humor are things that kept me going at times and its true
when i was group leader i had a farting noise as my ring tone on my mobile, that little bugger would ring my phone in the meeting when the moments silence was in progress
if i hadnt put it on silent then the noise would be heard and some members certainly didnt find it funny : ) but i would be in fits of laughter trying to open the meeting he is a star in my eyes with his madcap humour and of course i do the same to him when we meet up in meetings which isnt very often these days as we tend to end up leaving the meeting in fits of laughter standing outside not able to go back in in case we disturb the meeting, so we tend to go to different meetings : )
i didnt get sober to be miserable and life can dam well hurt me enough as it is so its nice to have some humor around but probably not as mad cap as mine nor some of my friends as we are like great big kids really : )
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My best buds and I, growing up, always liked saying "F**k you if you can't take a joke." I turn it around and say "F**k me if I can't take a joke" anytime I find myself taking anything TOO seriously. Seems to work for me.
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I went to a meeting this morning then had breakfast with a friend. We're both sober the proverbial "a while" and also struggled with depression at times so we naturally talked a about Robin Williams.
One of the things that has bothered me the past few days is no one knows if he had returned to drinking or using drugs. People are making assumptions and expressing opinions but we won't know anything until the results of of the medical tests are released, if ever. I'll throw an opinion into the ring. It's really none of my damn business if he was sober or drinking. Truth is, this thing can kill us without us ever picking up a drink or drug.
-a
One of the things that has bothered me the past few days is no one knows if he had returned to drinking or using drugs. People are making assumptions and expressing opinions but we won't know anything until the results of of the medical tests are released, if ever. I'll throw an opinion into the ring. It's really none of my damn business if he was sober or drinking. Truth is, this thing can kill us without us ever picking up a drink or drug.
-a
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